My ideal CTA routes/changes

[geneking7320]

Well, looks like Clybourn will get it's route back, though not the way we wanted.

Pages 2-3 of this link: http://www.leedcouncil.org/newsletter/j120.pdf

What I don't like about this proposed route is that it would terminate at Chicago/State. It would be hard for me, seeing that I catch the #14 to get downtown, and I hoped this bus would be near reasonable walking distance from the #14. I will write to CTA again, and I hope they'll consider extending it to Michigan/Congress or South Water/Columbus.

Although it won't go far north like the old #41, at least I'll have a better way to get to Webster Place.

I can remember when the CTA ran Twin Coach propane buses [5000 series] on this route and seeing the destination 41 CHICAGO - STATE.

[Busjack]

Well, looks like Clybourn will get it's route back, though not the way we wanted.

Pages 2-3 of this link: http://www.leedcouncil.org/newsletter/j120.pdf

As usual (maybe the "not a crystal ball rule" should apply) it said by the end of the year, and if it was 2008, it has ended. But there was the other post that maybe by summer of this year.

This, and the 111/115 split, don't seem to be on the RTA/JARC list, but since there are several reports about it, apparently CTA got some other type of funding.

As usual, I guess we'll have to wait until the Thursday before to see the Alert.

[redlinerider]

Why would you end the new route at Chicago Red Line, where would it lay over?

[pudgym29]

Why would you end the new route at Chicago Red Line, where would it lay over?

I surmise the bus is considered serving the central business district, and buses downtown do not have an off-street lay-over terminal, but CTA doesn't feel the route needs to go physically downtown.

How about the days and hours of operation of the route? This bus would run to the block of Goose Island Clybourn.

[BusExpert32]

Another proposal to take a good swipe at:

12: Extend it to Forest Park Blue Line. The #305 could be run alonside or discontinued.

16: Bring back a portion of it that would run along Lake Street between Harlem/Lake Green Line and Pulaski/Lake.

42: A new fixed route that would provide all stop service along Halsted and then enter I55 to Lake Shore Drive to the South Loop. It would operate between Halsted Green Line and the South Loop.

45: A new fixed route that would provide all stop service along Ashland and then enter I55 to Lake Shore Drive to the South Loop. It would operate between Ashalnd/63rd Green Line and the South Loop.

61: A new fixed route along Oak Park between Reed Hospital and Archer/Harlem. The #311 could be run alongside or discontinued.

[Buslover88]

12: Extend it to Forest Park Blue Line. The #305 could be run alonside or discontinued.

I really don't know any good what the #12 proposal would do. There's already #305 there. Why compete with CTA over it?

16: Bring back a portion of it that would run along Lake Street between Harlem/Lake Green Line and Pulaski/Lake.

Would there be any point to this? There's already the Green Line right above Lake Street, so I don't know if that route would get much, if any, ridership at all.

42: A new fixed route that would provide all stop service along Halsted and then enter I55 to Lake Shore Drive to the South Loop. It would operate between Halsted Green Line and the South Loop.

45: A new fixed route that would provide all stop service along Ashland and then enter I55 to Lake Shore Drive to the South Loop. It would operate between Ashalnd/63rd Green Line and the South Loop.

What are the points of these two routes? There is already buses on Halsted and Ashland. The two routes also seem a bit short. If you want to get folks to the South Loop via Halsted/Ashland, shouldn't the service be all along those streets?

61: A new fixed route along Oak Park between Reed Hospital and Archer/Harlem. The #311 could be run alongside or discontinued.

I support this ... somewhat. What I support about it is that it would provide service to people living along Oak Park. What I don't support about this is that #311 is already running along Oak Park on some parts, so why would you run it along a CTA route? That's just copying Pace's route. Also, don't you think the route is a bit long?

OT: Yes, this is my 1000th post. I'd like to thank everyone who's stuck by me in the last three and a half years on this forum. I thank you all for reading my posts (and putting up with some of them) and I hope to make a thousand more posts. Peace to all the bus fans out there!

[cta_44499_FG]

Another proposal to take a good swipe at:

12: Extend it to Forest Park Blue Line. The #305 could be run alonside or discontinued.

16: Bring back a portion of it that would run along Lake Street between Harlem/Lake Green Line and Pulaski/Lake.

42: A new fixed route that would provide all stop service along Halsted and then enter I55 to Lake Shore Drive to the South Loop. It would operate between Halsted Green Line and the South Loop.

45: A new fixed route that would provide all stop service along Ashland and then enter I55 to Lake Shore Drive to the South Loop. It would operate between Ashalnd/63rd Green Line and the South Loop.

61: A new fixed route along Oak Park between Reed Hospital and Archer/Harlem. The #311 could be run alongside or discontinued.

12- Duplication of service. Also, what route would it follow to get there if it were to happen? Roosevelt, Harlem, to the terminal? Or would you want to route to also operate through the shopping center on that corner as well? Elaborate.

42- This might work. Careful monitoring and planning necessary. The Halsted corridor is busy overall, so this is not a bad idea. Where in the south loop would it terminate?

45- Again same as the 42

61- There isn't any real traffic generator along Oak Park avenue north of North Ave, mostly residential (unless you're a Masterfoods, Inc express bus ie. formerly M&M Mars)....a mimick of the 155 Superdawg Feeder discussed quite often before in this forum. I've yet to see a big load on the Pace 311 as it stands now.

Ideas are not bad though! Doesn't hurt to to have ideas! :rolleyes:

[Busjack]

42- This might work. Careful monitoring and planning necessary. The Halsted corridor is busy overall, so this is not a bad idea. Where in the south loop would it terminate?

45- Again same as the 42

Both of these existed before the Orange Line and were rendered unnecessary by it.

While we are at it, why not bring back the 62X, 99 (via Pulaski and Cicero), 99M, 162 and 164, too?

Also, with regard to 42, there may be population on Halsted north of the Orange Line, but from about 47th to 71st sure looks depopulated to me. I doubt there are many people to go downtown from there.

According to the Daily Herald, the RTA is crying again. Why do people want to exacerbate the hit on the taxpayers? Apparently, none of you meant the "& even save money" in the header of this topic.

[BusExpert32]

12- Duplication of service. Also, what route would it follow to get there if it were to happen? Roosevelt, Harlem, to the terminal? Or would you want to route to also operate through the shopping center on that corner as well? Elaborate.

42- This might work. Careful monitoring and planning necessary. The Halsted corridor is busy overall, so this is not a bad idea. Where in the south loop would it terminate?

45- Again same as the 42

61- There isn't any real traffic generator along Oak Park avenue north of North Ave, mostly residential (unless you're a Masterfoods, Inc express bus ie. formerly M&M Mars)....a mimick of the 155 Superdawg Feeder discussed quite often before in this forum. I've yet to see a big load on the Pace 311 as it stands now.

Ideas are not bad though! Doesn't hurt to to have ideas!

12: Same as the #305- Roosevelt to Desplaines River Rd. to the end of the Blue Line.

42 and 45: They could exit Lake Shore Drive at Columbus/11th St., and then continue via Columbus-Bablo-State to the State/Van Buren Loop station.

And to respond to Busjack, bring em all back. Just for the heck of it. At least for a few months to see what would happen, since the CTA is getting and has the possibility of ordering an influx of more buses. I propose to just experiment with the old routes for at least six months, and if they prove to be worthless, then discontinue them again and scrap the 6000s.

[BusExpert32]

According to the Daily Herald, the RTA is crying again. Why do people want to exacerbate the hit on the taxpayers? Apparently, none of you meant the "& even save money" in the header of this topic.

Would this proposal save any money?:

Put an axe on all weekend Pink, Green, and Purple Line service, and replace the service with express bus routes that only run on weekends and holidays like the old X21.

[MetroShadow]

I will say, just for the fun of it, revive the 164 and send it down the Stevenson from Central to the loop. Collect as many people from the SW side, and without having to go down Cicero, just send it over Central...

I think the 12 already suffered traffic issues when going to Molitor. Having it go further west would only hamper the problem, not solve it. The 305 suffers a lot of time issues going through Cicero and Berwyn (normally east of Harlem would be the concern). I would argue that 305 service would be helped if Cicero, Berwyn, and Oak Park invested in interconnecting signals to help the traffic problem.

42 and 45 can be done, I believe the 42 was still standing after the Orange Line realignment in 1993-94, and even though sending it on the Expressway might cause problems, I don't see how this can't be done.

The Oak Park connection, even though it might take the pressure off Harlem buses, might not be sufficient enough with the demand. As mentioned before, there's not enough 311 ridership to justify another route.

[Busjack]

42 and 45 can be done, I believe the 42 was still standing after the Orange Line realignment in 1993-94, and even though sending it on the Expressway might cause problems, I don't see how this can't be done.

And to respond to Busjack, bring em all back. Just for the heck of it. At least for a few months to see what would happen, since the CTA is getting and has the possibility of ordering an influx of more buses.

42 and some of the other routes I listed remained for a while after the Orange Line reopened to basically placate Bill Lipinski, who was CTA's congressman for getting money. The public rationale was also similar to keeping up frequency on 11 after 3 track was done--see if customers would stay on the bus or gravitate to the L. By the time of the 1997 cutbacks, it was realized that they were not sustainable.

Which gets me back to the RTA is crying department. Unless the federal government prints more money for this purpose (which it can), there are not local resources to "bring everything back for six months and see if it flies." Unless you are willing to pay a 15% sales tax, for instance. The JARC money that CTA has already received does give it some leeway to see if some things fly, and I would be willing to leave it at that. But, I don't see the need to raise taxes to fund obvious duplication.

[Busjack]

Would this proposal save any money?:

Put an axe on all weekend Pink, Green, and Purple Line service, and replace the service with express bus routes that only run on weekends and holidays like the old X21.

Green (at least South Side) certainly would save money.

Purple depends on whether there is something at Northwestern, such as a football game at Ryan Field (I was going to say Dyche Stadium) that will pack the train. Even if not, there is a lot of student riding, especially from Noyes and Davis. However, the fact that while the 1-50s were still around, they could run most of it with single car trains and the operator collecting fares indicates that a bus substitute could be a possibility.

Pink Line--too much political flack from the Little Village activists, and there was always the question whether the X21 should go to McCormick Place or downtown via the Med Center.

[BusExpert32]

Green (at least South Side) certainly would save money.

Purple depends on whether there is something at Northwestern (such as a football game at Ryan Field (I was going to say Dyche Stadium) that will pack the train. Even if not, there is a lot of student riding, especially from Noyes and Davis. However, the fact that while the 1-50s were still around, they could run most of it with single car trains and the operator collecting fares indicates that a bus substitute could be a possibility.

Pink Line--too much political flack from the Little Village activists, and there was always the question whether the X21 should go to McCormick Place or downtown via the Med Center.

So the weekend Green Line service could be run from Harlem/Lake to the Loop only, with a cost effective limited stop bus route replacing the south portion on weekends and holidays. And the Purple Line could be axed on weekends and replaced with a weekend/holiday only bus route as well between Linden and Howard.

[Busjack]

So the weekend Green Line service could be run from Harlem/Lake to the Loop only, with a cost effective limited stop bus route replacing the south portion on weekends and holidays. And the Purple Line could be axed on weekends and replaced with a weekend/holiday only bus route as well between Linden and Howard.

I didn't go that far with the Purple Line. Maybe someone else might.

[Guest metralink]

The old thread had some great suggestions, but it turned into a flame war. So I decided to start anew. I have some revised ideas too. Here it goes

\Idea for a new route: \

Idea for new route: The 104 Michigan/Torrence Express. This would operate from 95th/Red Line to River Oaks shopping centers via limited stops along Michigan, Torrence, then local stops from 139th/Torrence to River Oaks. Of course, this would have weekend serivce. I would love to go to RO without having to drive all the time. Plus the 358 only runs every hour, which sucks.

First, why should the CTA extend service into the suburbs? By legislation Pace is responsible for operating service in the suburbs. Plus Pace is planning to expand Route 353 service from 95th street to River Oaks so this suggestion is taken care of.

[BusExpert32]

42 and some of the other routes I listed remained for a while after the Orange Line reopened to basically placate Bill Lipinski, who was CTA's congressman for getting money. The public rationale was also similar to keeping up frequency on 11 after 3 track was done--see if customers would stay on the bus or gravitate to the L. By the time of the 1997 cutbacks, it was realized that they were not sustainable.

Which gets me back to the RTA is crying department. Unless the federal government prints more money for this purpose (which it can), there are not local resources to "bring everything back for six months and see if it flies." Unless you are willing to pay a 15% sales tax, for instance. The JARC money that CTA has already received does give it some leeway to see if some things fly, and I would be willing to leave it at that. But, I don't see the need to raise taxes to fund obvious duplication.

I think I said too much when I said to bring everything back to see if it flies. But I still believe in a #12 extension, the return of the #16, and a new variation of the old #42.

*My proposal for the 12 would give the corrider more reasonable frequency than Pace has to offer (at least to Forest Park).

*The 16 isn't that obvious of a duplication, since it gave local service to Lake Street.

*I propose a different variation of the old 42 that would run as follows: could be rush hour only or longer on weekdays only- it would run limited stop service on Halsted between Halsted Green Line and Halsted Blue Line, and then head to the South Loop along I290 and Congress. I believe that the Halsted corrider would benefit from limited stop service that also heads downtown, and it would provide better and safer service for anyone going to/from Kennedy-King College than the Green Line.

[Busjack]

I think I said too much when I said to bring everything back to see if it flies. But I still believe in a #12 extension, the return of the #16, and a new variation of the old #42.

*My proposal for the 12 would give the corrider more reasonable frequency than Pace has to offer (at least to Forest Park).

*The 16 isn't that obvious of a duplication, since it gave local service to Lake Street.

*I propose a different variation of the old 42 that would run as follows: could be rush hour only or longer on weekdays only- it would run limited stop service on Halsted between Halsted Green Line and Halsted Blue Line, and then head to the South Loop along I290 and Congress. I believe that the Halsted corrider would benefit from limited stop service that also heads downtown, and it would provide better and safer service for anyone going to/from Kennedy-King College than the Green Line.

If you are waiting for the bus at 63rd and Halsted for any length of time, I doubt it.

Also, if they were from downtown, they could go to Harold Washington College, unless they really are into the HD television programming curriculum. Also, is KKC a RUSH HOUR generator?

[BusExpert32]

If you are waiting for the bus at 63rd and Halsted for any length of time, I doubt it.

Also, if they were from downtown, they could go to Harold Washington College, unless they really are into the HD television programming curriculum. Also, is KKC a RUSH HOUR generator?

I mentioned it could run during midday as well, but there's no point in disputing where people are going to or from and why. My larger point for this route would be limited stop service along Halsted if the BRT plans dissapear and a better option than the South portion of the Green Line for anyone traveling in that area. The traffic generator wouldn't be limited to only the KKC.

Also, you once mentioned that someone you knew took the Green Line to Cottage Grove and then walked, and it scared the bleep out of him, so I guess that's what I mean by proposing a "better and safer" option than the Green Line.

[Busjack]

I mentioned it could run during midday as well, but there's no point in disputing where people are going to or from and why. My larger point for this route would be limited stop service along Halsted if the BRT plans dissapear and a better option than the South portion of the Green Line for anyone traveling in that area. The traffic generator wouldn't be limited to only the KKC.

Also, you once mentioned that someone you knew took the Green Line to Cottage Grove and then walked, and it scared the bleep out of him, so I guess that's what I mean by proposing a "better and safer" option than the Green Line.

I suggested that he take the #2 bus, not, for instance that he take a bus on 63rd Street as a substitute. If you are going to KKC, basically no way to avoid 63rd and Halsted. At least the L station has a customer service alarm button.

To get to a more philosophical point, I really wonder about proposals to replace L service with bus (except Owl). Unless the L project was totally misconceived (and maybe the south side Green Line was; the Orange Line certainly wasn't), that seems to be a big waste of taxpayer money.

[pudgym29]

Fitzgerald's nightclub is a night-time traffic generator on Roosevelt Rd.

It needs a late evening route, or some runs connecting it to the Forest Park branch of the Blue Line "L".

Who would fund and | or operate it? Pace, or the CTA? Under the seemingly prevailing opinion, since the run would be completely in suburban communities, it should be Pace.

Would Pace create a late night run just for one-to-four runs between 23:30 and 25:30? I can't envision it doing that. But I can see CTA interlining a run from Kedzie garage to do this.

[Busjack]

Fitzgerald's nightclub is a night-time traffic generator on Roosevelt Rd.

It needs a late evening route, or some runs connecting it to the Forest Park branch of the Blue Line "L".

Who would fund and | or operate it? Pace, or the CTA? Under the seemingly prevailing opinion, since the run would be completely in suburban communities, it should be Pace.

Would Pace create a late night run just for one-to-four runs between 23:30 and 25:30? I can't envision it doing that. But I can see CTA interlining a run from Kedzie garage to do this.

Not only here, but also on the Yahoo group, I see claims that bus companies should establish routes just to service bars.

While I don't favor drinking and driving, if a route didn't have enough patronage to justify Owl service, it should be up to the taverns to fund a private service.

In this case, the bar advertises that it is "just 6 blocks from the Blue Line." If it doesn't really believe that its partrons should walk it, it should establish its own shuttle.

Whatever one thinks whether UPS routes are public or private, at least UPS pays Pace to run buses at 3 a.m.

BTW, the West Side Restructuring is over. The CTA took enough flack for intruding into Pace territory, so I don't think it is in a hurry to do more, despite what several have advocated here.

[BusExpert32]

To get to a more philosophical point, I really wonder about proposals to replace L service with bus (except Owl). Unless the L project was totally misconceived (and maybe the south side Green Line was; the Orange Line certainly wasn't), that seems to be a big waste of taxpayer money.

I've pulled away from testing out the Stevenson express routes, since the Orange Line is a good use of money. But since you proclaimed that most of the proposals on here saved no money, I tried to come up with a feasible plan to do so. That is, to axe either weekend service or all service on the south portion of the Green Line, and replace it with a new #42. That would save the taxpayers' money.

[Busjack]

I've pulled away from testing out the Stevenson express routes, since the Orange Line is a good use of money. But since you proclaimed that most of the proposals on here saved no money, I tried to come up with a feasible plan to do so. That is, to axe either weekend service or all service on the south portion of the Green Line, and replace it with a new #42. That would save the taxpayers' money.

If you were replacing the Green Line, it would have to be either the old 38 (Indiana to 63rd, with branches on 63rd, which operated when the Green Line was under construction) or a feeder to the Red Line. A Halsted express, running mostly on the expressway, and basically redundant north of the Orange Line station doesn't accomplish that.

And it also seems you are receding from your proposal to run 42 rush hour.

[BusExpert32]

If you were replacing the Green Line, it would have to be either the old 38 (Indiana to 63rd, with branches on 63rd, which operated when the Green Line was under construction) or a feeder to the Red Line. A Halsted express, running mostly on the expressway, doesn't accomplish that.

And it also seems you are receding from your proposal to run 42 rush hour.

Yes, I am. I'm actually just going to drop the #42 idea, since it's seeming less feasible every time I think about it. I'm now sticking with the old #38 with the two branches on the south end. New proposal:

38: The south portion of the Green Line should be shut down at all times and replaced with bus service every day. The #38 that ran when the Green Line was under construction should replace it.