What's left for #5800 New Flyer's

[qwantae]

Wow. I can't believe there are only 26 of these buses left. At this rate, they'll be gone at least a week or two before the 1991 Flxibles are gone. I hope I get one of these buses the next time I have to ride #22 Clark, which will be on November 2.

26????? THAT IS CRAZY and a waste of money for rehabbing those 5800s couple years ago around 2005/06 and now they are getting rid of them, or are they selling most of them to Canada for secondhand while Edmonton and Vancouver still have their early 90 model New Flyer D40LFs. Well thats america for us. So no one ever spot any of these on weekends lately?? I'm sure that I will miss these ones badly, I love their engine sound better than 1000s and I liked their back window.

[qwantae]

Im going to miss the old New Flyers i really am. How the engine roars down Clark and LSD. Man Good Times and they just got rehabbed too. But I guess that the New New Flyer (lol) are taking over Chicago.

Just Like Philadelphia SEPTA, I still be seeing couple of them passing through on I94 like a month ago. I guess their 1996-97 Ikarus-NABI 416s will be gone by next year along with Baltimore MTA's NABI 416s also.

[jajuan]

26????? THAT IS CRAZY and a waste of money for rehabbing those 5800s couple years ago around 2005/06 and now they are getting rid of them, or are they selling most of them to Canada for secondhand while Edmonton and Vancouver still have their early 90 model New Flyer D40LFs. Well thats america for us. So no one ever spot any of these on weekends lately?? I'm sure that I will miss these ones badly, I love their engine sound better than 1000s and I liked their back window.

To be fair, those rehabs were 10 years after the CTA acquired them not at their midlife. A true midlife rehab would have been during the years the 4400s were getting rehabbed. I know we have bus models that we like, but in the interest of improving the service standard, the CTA has to get out of the mode of keeping buses on the road beyond the standard 12 years and upwards of approaching close to 20 years. Regardless of a rehab, it costs more to keep an older bus on the road than a newer one. If they can get as many older buses off the road and recoup the savings from not having to maintain them anymore, then I say go for it.

[Busjack]

To be fair, those rehabs were 10 years after the CTA acquired them not at their midlife. A true midlife rehab would have been during the years the 4400s were getting rehabbed.

There are problems with at least the assertions about the 5800s. If the 5800s were not midlifes, the new engines in them should have lasted more than the couple of years you indicate. In any event, the press release indicating that the work was starting for the "mid life overhaul" was dated 9/4/03, and since they were acquired in 1995, that would have been 8 years, or slightly past midlife. Even at that, the replacement engines should have lasted more than 5 years. About $112K was spent to rehab a bus when a new one could have been purchased for about $350K.

On the other hand, another Press Release said that a life extending overhaul on the TMCs was completed by 1-28-04, and the one previously cited indicated that it started in 2002, when the buses were 11 years old. One can probably quibble over the beginning and end dates, but it is clear that the 4400s got life extending rehabs while the 5800s got midlifes, although the 5800 work by Bus and Truck was more extensive.

While I agree that CTA shouldn't be paying to maintain junk, the way things are looking, some unrehabbed 5300s are going to outlive the 4400s and 5800s.

So, while I don't agree with qwante's dates, I do agree with the thrust of his comment.

[jajuan]

There are problems with at least the assertions about the 5800s. If the 5800s were not midlifes, the new engines in them should have lasted more than the couple of years you indicate. In any event, the press release indicating that the work was starting for the "mid life overhaul" was dated 9/4/03, and since they were acquired in 1995, that would have been 8 years, or slightly past midlife. Even at that, the replacement engines should have lasted more than 5 years. About $112K was spent to rehab a bus when a new one could have been purchased for about $350K.

On the other hand, another Press Release said that a life extending overhaul on the TMCs was completed by 1-28-04, and the one previously cited indicated that it started in 2002, when the buses were 11 years old. One can probably quibble over the beginning and end dates, but it is clear that the 4400s got life extending rehabs while the 5800s got midlifes, although the 5800 work by Bus and Truck was more extensive.

While I agree that CTA shouldn't be paying to maintain junk, the way things are looking, some unrehabbed 5300s are going to outlive the 4400s and 5800s.

So, while I don't agree with qwante's dates, I do agree with the thrust of his comment.

I will concede that something maybe could have been done with the engines at the very least. I wonder though are there other isssues that may be happening with these buses beyond the engines that makes the CTA want to retire them? I don't now about 5300s being around longer than the 4400s though. Maybe the 5800s because of the numbers and NP still receiving more 1000s, but I'm not sure about 4400s.

[BusHunter]

October's update takes us down to 27 left at North Park. They are #5803, #5805, #5806, #5808, #5816, #5818 - #5820, #5824, #5829 - #5831, #5833 - #5835, #5837, #5838, #5841, #5843 - #5847, #5856, #5857, #5862 and #5863. Retired are #5801, #5807, #5809, #5810, #5812 - #5815, #5817, #5822, #5823, #5825 - #5827, #5836, #5840, #5850, #5851, #5858, #5859, #5861, and #5864.

November's update drops up down to 15 left at North Park. They are #5806, #5808, #5816, #5818 - #5820, #5831, #5833 - #5835, #5837, #5843, #5845, #5847, and #5863. Retired are #5803, #5805, #5824, #5829, #5830, #5838, #5841, #5844, #5846, #5848, #5857 and #5862.

[Busjack]

Now, if I read all of BusHunter's posts correctly, and they are up to date, there are 82 buses left in the 4400, 5300, and 5800 series, and about 115 D40LFs to be received and put on the streets. Not to mention that 135 or so 4000s are to be received.

While it is not clear what will drop first (i.e. we assumed that the 5800s would be after the 4400s and 5300s, but that really doesn't seem to be the case), or how the new buses will be shuffled, it sure looks like the end of the road for these series, although probably not as quick as Ron Huberman or Carole Brown indicated in some pronouncements. My guess is mid to late January, although that could be accelerated if the last few fall off fast (because they were only kept around as spares for other oldies).

[Guest]

November's update drops up down to 15 left at North Park. They are #5806, #5808, #5816, #5818 - #5820, #5831, #5833 - #5835, #5837, #5843, #5845, #5847, and #5863. Retired are #5803, #5805, #5824, #5829, #5830, #5838, #5841, #5844, #5846, #5848, #5857 and #5862.

Given the economic worries, I wonder if CTA will recycle parts from the 5800s to use in the 1000s.

[Busjack]

Given the economic worries, I wonder if CTA will recycle parts from the 5800s to use in the 1000s.

If what people have indicated in various of these forums is correct, the powertrains are different (DD rather than Cummings). My usual disclaimer that I haven't looked behind the engine doors.

It is presumed that the body fittings aren't in great shape, or the buses wouldn't have been retired so soon.

[jajuan]

Given the economic worries, I wonder if CTA will recycle parts from the 5800s to use in the 1000s.

I know you don't really like CTA management that much, but come on that's going over the top. That's a stretch even for them not to mention there may be a safety issue in doing that even if by some slim margin all the parts were completely compatible. I'll admit that the safety issue might be a smaller stretch than possible large suits they would open themselves up to if a 1000 were in an accident involving an injury and that injured party's lawyer discovered the CTA even did something like this which I'll say they won't.

[Busjack]

I know you don't really like CTA management that much, but come on that's going over the top. That's a stretch even for them not to mention there may be a safety issue in doing that even if by some slim margin all the parts were completely compatible. I'll admit that the safety issue might be a smaller stretch than possible large suits they would open themselves up to if a 1000 were in an accident involving an injury and that injured party's lawyer discovered the CTA even did something like this which I'll say they won't.

That seems to be a bit harsh, given the history of probably all transit authorities of cannibalizing buses (and his employer acquiring Pace buses for parts to meet its obligation to maintain them). However, as I previously noted, the parts probably aren't compatible anyway, and CTA has had a history of disabling buses destined for the scrap yard.

[jajuan]

That seems to be a bit harsh, given the history of probably all transit authorities of cannibalizing buses (and his employer acquiring Pace buses for parts to meet its obligation to maintain them). However, as I previously noted, the parts probably aren't compatible anyway, and CTA has had a history of disabling buses destined for the scrap yard.

Sorry if it sounded a it harsh because that wasn't I know transit agencies have some history of cannibalizing parts, but as you point out this doesn't sound possible in this case. I was mostly responding to a thought in my head of even though these are similar bus models from the same manufacture, you still have to consider there's an 11-13 age difference and differenct motors and possibly different drivetrains. There's a big difference in the rear doors alone that points to incompatibilities. Again though sorry if my response came across too harh.

[trainman8119]

Odd sighting here...5837 westbound in service on Peterson at Ridge,

signed for Caldwell with run F903. This was Friday (11-21) at around 1:45pm.

[ryanbytes]

Odd sighting here...5837 westbound in service on Peterson at Ridge,

signed for Caldwell with run F903. This was Friday (11-21) at around 1:45pm.

A little less odd. I caught one the other night at Jefferson Park

[BusExpert32]

Anyone know the truth about the 5800s and Forest Glen and/or its routes?

[cta5658]

Anyone know the truth about the 5800s and Forest Glen and/or its routes?

My Guess is that FG Did a fill in on the #81W

[jajuan]

My Guess is that FG Did a fill in on the #81W

Did you mean NP did a fill in because 81W is assigned to FG.

[cta5658]

Did you mean NP did a fill in because 81W is assigned to FG.

oops my bad i meant NP Did a fill in, i got mixed up

[jajuan]

oops my bad i meant NP Did a fill in, i got mixed up

I thought that's what you meant. I didn't want someone else to pounce on you in a rush to say you were dead wrong. :P

[trainman8119]

A little less odd. I caught one the other night at Jefferson Park

Damn bike rack and ad...it looks like the pic you have shows a bus

with a number 581(?). I can't make out the number...the bus I saw

on Peterson was 5837. Do you know what you have in your pic????

If it is more than one bus, that might indicate that FG is short on

buses and had to borrow....more unnecessary moves or moves

too many (spend that money boys..) ?????

[ryanbytes]

Damn bike rack and ad...it looks like the pic you have shows a bus

with a number 581(?). I can't make out the number...the bus I saw

on Peterson was 5837. Do you know what you have in your pic????

I looked at my other pictures and it's bus 5816.

[BusHunter]

I looked at my other pictures and it's bus 5816.

#5837 should be around the Fg territories too. Seen it last thursday or friday on the Addison westbound signed for Cumberland around 6:00 P.M. I thought it odd to see it on Addison at that time of day. Lane tech school runs in the afternoon don't run that late and only one run goes to Cumberland and it is usually a NABI. Perhaps CTA has found a way to keep the #5800's alive (a few of them) longer than we think. More and more it looks like it will be a group retirement between the #5300, #4400's and #5800's with the very last ones being retired together. Maybe if were lucky there'll be a press conference that week.

[Busjack]

Hate to start up the rumor mill again, but there is a couple #5800's at FG. Would they train with #5800's? Probably not, but anything's possible. More like their a temporary consolation prize.

However, does seem to support that the couple of sightings were of transfers and not fill-ins, and might explain how FG is otherwise coping with posters here saying that FG was short.

As far as trainman on the transfers or whatever--here NP and FG are close enough that it isn't too egregious. But one would wonder about a transfer of buses soon to be retired, unless that indicates... (you can fill in the blank).

[cta_44499_FG]

However, does seem to support that the couple of sightings were of transfers and not fill-ins, and might explain how FG is otherwise coping with posters here saying that FG was short.

As far as trainman on the transfers or whatever--here NP and FG are close enough that it isn't too egregious. But one would wonder about a transfer of buses soon to be retired, unless that indicates... (you can fill in the blank).

I don't see how FG could have any 5800s...due to the fact that with the exception of the #64 route....the entire garage is Bus Tracker LIVE for the most part. It would downright stupid to bring in old busses that cannot be tracked....this hurts the performance numbers of the garage as a "gap in service" (eg. the bus is not showing up on computer though it is on the street), and the management tends to not like that. They do put in for the busses that go offline on their own to be fixed immediately...they certainly are not going to take busses that don't have the hardware at all.

If anything...FG gets extra busses from Archer or 77th...eg. same fleet and the equipment is already set up for use.

I'm not saying it wasn't possible...but if these sightings are true as it was stated earlier...a waste of time and resources.

[trainman8119]

I don't see how FG could have any 5800s...

...I'm not saying it wasn't possible...but if these sightings are true as it was stated earlier...a waste of time and resources.

See the pic of 5816 above...it's pretty obvious that the bus is operating on the 64. Whether

5816 and 5837 are there for the week or until scrap is unknown, but they are there and operating, bustracker or not !!!!