Pace gets the boot at Yorktown

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Pace to Relocate Service from Yorktown Shopping Center

Thursday July 31, 3:18 pm ET

Mall Directs Pace to Remove Daily Service from its Property Effective August 1

ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, Ill.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The owners and management of Yorktown Center in Lombard have informed Pace that the agency’s buses are no longer welcome on mall property effective August 1. Pace officials hoped to resolve the issue in order to maintain service to the shopping center on the six bus routes that serve it but Yorktown has been steadfast in its refusal. “This was not Pace’s decision,†said Pace Executive Director T.J. Ross. “We reached out to Yorktown with hopes of resolving the issues that led to this, but the mall has remained firm. We’re deeply sorry to all who will be inconvenienced by this change.â€

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As soon as efforts stalled in negotiating with Yorktown, Pace quickly worked to find an alternate location to use as a transfer point for passengers and an area at which buses at the end of a route can stage. Effective August 1, Routes 313, 322, 715, 834, 877 and 888 will connect on Branding Avenue in Downers Grove, south of Butterfield Road and east of Finley Road. Pace dispatched staff members to the existing bus stop at Yorktown in order to notify passengers of the change. Passenger notices were posted on shelters and all buses serving the area. “We’re grateful to the Village of Downers Grove for their willingness to work with us on such short notice,†said Ross. Passengers will remain able to board and alight buses on roads adjacent to Yorktown Center in order to access the mall, though pedestrian access is likely to be difficult, particularly during inclement weather.

Officials from Yorktown Center offered a different location for buses to stage near the mall along the ring road, but a site review by Pace staff determined that it would not have been safe for pedestrians, buses, or vehicular traffic. “Operating service to this location would have been difficult and potentially unsafe,†said Ross. “We could not go along with the alternate location that Yorktown recommended.â€

Two express routes, 779 Wrigley Field Express and 776 Soldier Field Express, shuttle fans from the mall to Chicago Cubs and Bears home games. The express routes will continue to operate from Yorktown, as mall management did not direct Pace to remove them from the property, though the routes could be relocated at a later date.

“We realize that a large number of shoppers, employees, and passengers connecting to other routes enjoyed having service to Yorktown Center,†said Ross. “The mall’s management has made its choice and left us with no viable alternative to continue service to the mall.â€

Contact:

Pace

Patrick Wilmot, (847) 228-4225

[Busjack]

What the copied release doesn't indicate is that the Passenger Notice also indicates that 313 has been rerouted away from downtown Lombard, including Main Street.

Unless this is a stink over the location of the bus stop in the parking lot, apparently Yorktown is indicating that it doesn't want the passengers' business. Of course, now that Veggie Tales has moved out....

I also wonder if all the destination signs get changed. There seems to be little rationale for calling 834 Joliet-Yorktown. Probably now Joliet-Downers Grove.

In any event, this better serves Buona Beef.

[MVTArider]

Hope they don't end up with a situation like the one in Buffalo. It will be interesting if revenues drop after August 1st.

[Busjack]

Why was Pace ejected from serving Yorktown?

Since you copied the press release, either that says, or we need to go into speculation about what is in shopping center management's head.

However, to try to analyze the release:

• The stop used to be at Wards, but then got moved to Penny's, a less convenient location after Ward's closed. So, the Veggie Tales reference might be a hint, but ...
  
• There seems to be a appropriation of land in the parking lots for new buildings. The Target is across from Penny's. Their website also mentions the outdoor "Shops of Butterfield." Maybe there wasn't room for the conflicting bus traffic, as the release says "Officials from Yorktown Center offered a different location for buses to stage near the mall along the ring road"
  
• With all the references to a "transfer center" and "buses staging," maybe the shopping center didn't want to become a bus terminal. Starts to sound like the center is serving the buses, rather than vice versa.
  

I've also known shopping center employees that became red derriere because the centers turned into Park and Ride lots, and even one, while so officially designated, didn't want you parking anywhere near the bus stop adjoining the mini mall. Again, I don't know if that applies here, but it might.

[Buslover88]

Since you copied the press release ...

One error here, Busjack, CTA5750 did not copy that, it was metralink. Just to clarify things here .

[Busjack]

One error here, Busjack, CTA5750 did not copy that, it was metralink. Just to clarify things here .

Clicking on the quote reply button still copies it. Especially if not further edited.

[Buslover88]

Clicking on the quote reply button still copies it. Especially if not further edited.

Well okay.

[artthouwill]

A few possibilities.

Most of the ridership on the affected routes are Hispanic, African-American, and/or elderly, while the mall sees most of its clientele as middle class and from neighboring suburbs (lombard, Downers Grove, Lisle, Oak Brook). It could be an economic or subtle race issue with the mall, I can't say, but it is a possibility.

REal estate space for potential development may be another possiblity. Since most Pace buses "stage" in the parking lot and not by the actual bus stop, thiscould have hindered development in the areas where parking is not being utilized. The difference between this mall and Oak Brook and Woodfield is that the latter two malls are not "terminals" for the routes that serve them.

I believe the compromise would be to end the routes where Pace will now be ending them in Downers Grove, but keep the mall as a bus stop only. I can't find it but odd that the Wrigley and Bears Expresses can still load at the mall, but not the other Pace routes that primarily serve non-Whites.

[Busjack]

I can't find it but odd that the Wrigley and Bears Expresses can still load at the mall, but not the other Pace routes that primarily serve non-Whites.

Again, possibly relevant to the latter point is that there was an announcement (I believe during a Cubs game) that the Wrigley Express bus was being sponsored by Harry Carey's Lombard, which is in the hotel and not the mall.

That would not, however, negate the park and ride question, nor the concerns you and MVTArider imply.

[Busjack]

I also wonder if all the destination signs get changed. There seems to be little rationale for calling 834 Joliet-Yorktown. Probably now Joliet-Downers Grove.

The Pace website database now reflects that change. I wonder if the destination signs do.

[Busjack]

A month later, the Tribune finally has an explanation. It appears to be a combination of tearing up the pavement, and, as I indicated, not wanting to turn the mall into serving the bus company.

Since Pace is always posting Passenger Notices of schedule changes, what is the big hangup for waiting until November? Picks that written in stone?

[Busjack]

I guess the Yorktown dispute got settled (see typical passenger notice).

[Busjack]

I guess the Yorktown dispute got settled (see typical passenger notice).

Also, Tribune article.

[RJL6000]

More tweaking of Route 313 and 322 service at Yorktown:

Starting Sunday, November 23, 2008, buses will no longer be allowed to wait on Yorktown property. (This means that buses will be allowed to enter Yorktown property to pick up or drop off passengers, but must leave immediately once all passengers needing to go to or leave Yorktown are picked up or dropped off.) This change affects only those two routes which currently begin and end their runs at Yorktown. Beyond this, the changes will be as follows:

Route 313 will no longer operate via Taft - Electric - Vallette - Poplar in Berkeley and Elmhurst. Instead, the routing will remain on St. Charles Road between Taft and Poplar. In addition, the Branding/Finley bus stop in Downers Grove (where the transfer point between most Pace bus routes which serve Yorktown was located at during the dispute in which buses weren't allowed to even enter Yorktown property) will become the permanent west terminal for Route 313 (buses will run nonstop between the Yorktown stop and Branding/Finley).

Route 322, on the other hand, will leave Yorktown immediately after dropping off/picking up passengers and head eastbound to the Oak Brook shopping center, where the bus will then stop and wait until the EB schedule keeps up with the bus run.

Routes 715, 834, 877 and 888 will remain unchanged as those bus routes do not currently begin or end their runs at Yorktown. (And the north terminal of Route 834, which was previously located at Yorktown before the dispute began, was established at Branding/Finley when the buses resumed entry into Yorktown property.)

[rotjohns]

I don't know if anyone noticed this, but I saw an article on Friday in the Daily Herald that Yorktown Mall has new owners and will be getting a face-lift. I'm just curious to know if this could mean at some point Pace can negotiate possibly ending their runs for 313, 322, and 834 at Yorktown like before with the new owners? It just seems as if the permanent ending at Branding/Finley is pointless because hardly anyone gets off in that area unless maybe rush hour and I know the drivers are probably sick of that too. I was at Oak Brook the other day and a 322 bus was just sitting at the mall with about 10 people on it, but couldn't move because of the scheduling. I know its somewhat the same for Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg, but at least they have a transportation center.

[Busjack]

...I was at Oak Brook the other day and a 322 bus was just sitting at the mall with about 10 people on it, but couldn't move because of the scheduling....

You bring up one of the two problems cited at Yorktown, that management didn't want to use it as a layover point. The way Pace is scheduled, there is relief time at most time points, but at least Yorktown has bus lanes near the parking garage to sit. Same at Old Orchard.

There was also the issue about the buses tearing up the parking lot, which I guess was resolved when Yorktown let them onto the property, but again, not to dig up their own waiting area.

Since ownership is an investment group, the only issue is whether the management they engaged has a different attitude, but I doubt it.

[dann]

A few possibilities.

Most of the ridership on the affected routes are Hispanic, African-American, and/or elderly, while the mall sees most of its clientele as middle class and from neighboring suburbs (lombard, Downers Grove, Lisle, Oak Brook). It could be an economic or subtle race issue with the mall, I can't say, but it is a possibility.

REal estate space for potential development may be another possiblity. Since most Pace buses "stage" in the parking lot and not by the actual bus stop, thiscould have hindered development in the areas where parking is not being utilized. The difference between this mall and Oak Brook and Woodfield is that the latter two malls are not "terminals" for the routes that serve them.

I believe the compromise would be to end the routes where Pace will now be ending them in Downers Grove, but keep the mall as a bus stop only. I can't find it but odd that the Wrigley and Bears Expresses can still load at the mall, but not the other Pace routes that primarily serve non-Whites.

How would you explain bus service continuing at Old Orchard? I seem to notice that Route 97 and some Evanston routes end there.

[Busjack]

How would you explain bus service continuing at Old Orchard? I seem to notice that Route 97 and some Evanston routes end there.

1. There is no point in bringing up a 4 year old post when the immediate problem (the bus was denied permission to stop at the mall door) was resolved three years ago.

2. In any of these cases, the bus needs the permission of the mall owner to enter private property. As I noted above, both Old Orchard and Oakbrook have dedicated bus islands. On the other hand, Randhurst was rebuilt in such a way that a bus that formerly was able to enter it (routes 234 and 696) now can't. That's the only distinction

Maybe you can explain why the Northbrook Court bus stop was moved from outside Nieman Marcus to the back door of the theater, which doesn't make much sense to me, but that's how it now works.

[artthouwill]

On North Blvd, near the north entrance to the CTA Green Line/Oak Park Metra, the bus shelter has been removed. The 90, 305, and 309 still stop there, though it seems the 305 is no longer allowed to stage on North Blvd, at least during daylight hours. Those drivers now stage southbound on Harlem between Ontario and Lake St, in the right turn lane. I'm not sure why the change, except possibly to not obstruct eastbound traffic on North Blvd, seeing that it is one lane in each direction, yet buses can obstruct traffic on a busy Harlem Ave? Why not use the 757 stop at the corner of Circle and Harlem and end/begin route there, with the lone exception of trips to Division/Thatcher?

[Busjack]

On North Blvd, near the north entrance to the CTA Green Line/Oak Park Metra, the bus shelter has been removed. The 90, 305, and 309 still stop there, though it seems the 305 is no longer allowed to stage on North Blvd, at least during daylight hours. Those drivers now stage southbound on Harlem between Ontario and Lake St, in the right turn lane. I'm not sure why the change...

The Ontario route was the one they used when 305 used to be Bloomingdale Thatcher on weekdays, but just to the Green Line on weekends.

What I guess is more surprising is that the Marion entrance is supposed to be a transit center; at least it had a plaque there and the accessible entrance to the UPW and Green Line. From what you say, somehow the bus element is being degraded.

[RJL6000]

Why not use the 757 stop at the corner of Circle and Harlem and end/begin route there, with the lone exception of trips to Division/Thatcher?

That would be unfeasible because such a routing would have resulted in either the 305 completely missing southbound stops on Harlem Avenue the route is required to serve or having the bus go all the way to Lathrop Avenue in River Forest just to turn around. Besides, the 757 stop at the corner is used only on weekdays during the PM rush period (the only period that the 757 operates eastbound) because the 757 operates westbound only during the morning rush period. This is all because there is absolutely no good place to turn around a bus from Circle Avenue in Forest Park. The Circle Avenue stop would have required the 305 to continue on Circle all the way to Randolph Street, and then turn east on Randolph and then south on Harlem (thereby missing the stops at Franklin and Dixon Streets on Harlem) - or it would have required the 305 to turn west on Franklin, then north on Lathrop (one-half mile west of Harlem), then east on Lake before turning south on Harlem.

[ibebobo]

Maybe you can explain why the Northbrook Court bus stop was moved from outside Nieman Marcus to the back door of the theater, which doesn't make much sense to me, but that's how it now works.

[artthouwill]

That would be unfeasible because such a routing would have resulted in either the 305 completely missing southbound stops on Harlem Avenue the route is required to serve or having the bus go all the way to Lathrop Avenue in River Forest just to turn around. Besides, the 757 stop at the corner is used only on weekdays during the PM rush period (the only period that the 757 operates eastbound) because the 757 operates westbound only during the morning rush period. This is all because there is absolutely no good place to turn around a bus from Circle Avenue in Forest Park. The Circle Avenue stop would have required the 305 to continue on Circle all the way to Randolph Street, and then turn east on Randolph and then south on Harlem (thereby missing the stops at Franklin and Dixon Streets on Harlem) - or it would have required the 305 to turn west on Franklin, then north on Lathrop (one-half mile west of Harlem), then east on Lake before turning south on Harlem.

Turning west on Franklin and then right on Circle which would lead it right back to Harlem would be ok. The 757 uses this routing in the a.m. when deadheading from the garage to get to that bus stop to start its a.m rush runs (only the 757 is coming from Lake to Franklin). The other thing it could do is follow the 90 Harlem routing around the station and load with the 90 on the south side of the station.

[Busjack]

Maybe you can explain why the Northbrook Court bus stop was moved from outside Nieman Marcus to the back door of the theater, which doesn't make much sense to me, but that's how it now works.

I beleive Nieman complained about buses (Pace, summer camp, and college) disrupting their parking. The new location isn't too far from an entrance to the mall.

[strictures]

It's worse at Golf Mill, where the bus stop is way outside of Penney's, when it should be at one of the mall entrances, preferably where the food court is.

Or the way the insane 290 buses have to go into Lincolnwood Town Center. It's easily a 3/4ths mile drive in & out of that place, what with the buses having to go all the way to the back, when there are entrances just off of Touhy Ave.