Guest Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Today is of course the date of the most famous CTA L crash. A Ravenswood train versus a Lake Dan Ryan Train. YouTube has the CFD radio calls of the accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Today is of course the date of the most famous CTA L crash. A Ravenswood train versus a Lake Dan Ryan Train. YouTube has the CFD radio calls of the accident. Awsome to listen to. I was down there that night and saw firsthand what it was like. When I came in on Wabash off Wacker, the sight of the second car leaning on the elevated sent chills down my spine. Only after I got up to the ally (which was as close as we were allowed to get) between Lake and Wacker was I able to see the car on its side in the middle of the street. I never saw the 2200's in front of the restaurant on the sidewalk or the car hanging by a thread on the tie. I remember standing there with my mouth open in amazement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACE 834 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Awsome to listen to. I was down there that night and saw firsthand what it was like. When I came in on Wabash off Wacker, the sight of the second car leaning on the elevated sent chills down my spine. Only after I got up to the ally (which was as close as we were allowed to get) between Lake and Wacker was I able to see the car on its side in the middle of the street. I never saw the 2200's in front of the restaurant on the sidewalk or the car hanging by a thread on the tie. I remember standing there with my mouth open in amazement. Do you have a link for the audio?I was unable to locate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Do you have a link for the audio?I was unable to locate it. Put Lake and Wabash into the search engine on YouTube and presto it should come up. The full title is CFD 1 El Crash Lake And Wabash Part 1. There's four parts!! The accident involved #2200's #2289 - 90 and #2000's #2043 - 44. There's actually a pretty cool article in the Winter 1995 -96 article of First And Fastest that tells all the service startup dates of #2000's as well as when each one retired including accidents resulting in early retirement. It even lists the scrappers name. Pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACE 834 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Put Lake and Wabash into the search engine on YouTube and presto it should come up. The full title is CFD 1 El Crash Lake And Wabash Part 1. There's four parts!! The accident involved #2200's #2289 - 90 and #2000's #2043 - 44. There's actually a pretty cool article in the Winter 1995 -96 article of First And Fastest that tells all the service startup dates of #2000's as well as when each one retired including accidents resulting in early retirement. It even lists the scrappers name. Pretty cool. Thanks BusHunter,I did find the audio on the call.I appreciate the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 You know after 30 years the pictures, it is still unbeliveable to see the pictures of these cars off the structure. That 2000 series car leaning off the structure is so burned into my brain and the cars on the street, just an awful situation, the pictures are just disturbing. Everytime I pass that intersection whether on the train or on the street the crash comes immediately to mind. I wonder if anyone has video of the newscasts. I do have a Tribune that I got on Ebay dated Feb 6, 1977 it has several pictures of the accident including the removal of the cars. Chicago L. Org has pics of 2289-2290 sitting at Skokie Shops after the accident, check the 2200 series pics section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buslover88 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 Wow. The accident (from the pictures and articles) makes it seem like the accident happened only 5 or 10 years ago. Hard to believe it's been 32 years since this accident happened. I'm going to have to listen to those clips sometime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 I know I do have the ten year anniversary of the crash on tape, 1987. CBS 2 news showed the L cars on the street and rescue workers trying to free trapped passengers. They call it the worst disaster in CTA history. We almost had another similar crash just last year with the derailed green line train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8H5307A Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Photo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I know I do have the ten year anniversary of the crash on tape, 1987. CBS 2 news showed the L cars on the street and rescue workers trying to free trapped passengers. They call it the worst disaster in CTA history. We almost had another similar crash just last year with the derailed green line train. There were some pretty bad crashes in the pre CTA age documented in the book the "L" by Bruce Moffat. I remember reading one about a train driver that fell asleep and drove his train right off the elevated structure blasting through a stub at the end of it. Probably the accident that holds the most intrigue for me was the Montrose blue line/Kennedy accident in the mid 80's where a #6000 rolled backwards down an enbankment into a #2200 at the station. A man was killed when the 7th car was squeezed into the 8th from the force of the collision. On the Chicago L.org site many of the bigger "L" crashes are listed. There is an interesting part of the site that lists the more current accidents including car numbers and some interesting pictures but the Kennedy accident is missing. I've always wondered what were the car numbers involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8H5307A Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Probably the accident that holds the most intrigue for me was the Montrose blue line/Kennedy accident in the mid 80's where a #6000 rolled backwards down an enbankment into a #2200 at the station. A man was killed when the 7th car was squeezed into the 8th from the force of the collision. That happened at Addison (O'hare branch) /Kennedy. Jan 1, 1976 6583 came in contact with 2308 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 That happened at Addison (O'hare branch) /Kennedy. Jan 1, 1976 6583 came in contact with 2308 That's a different accident. IIRC, there was one also at Addison in the '70's where one train rear ended another. The driver claimed the sun was in his eyes and couldn't see the other train. I think that involved #2400's. The montrose accident was more around 1983 -1986. It did happen there. I could never forget all the emergency equipment rushing to the scene. Fire trucks, ambulances and those red vans CTA used to have that said CTA emergency on them, and the news helicopters that showed up. It was a pretty big thing for that neighborhood at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8H5307A Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 That's a different accident. IIRC, there was one also at Addison in the '70's where one train rear ended another. The driver claimed the sun was in his eyes and couldn't see the other train. I think that involved #2400's. The montrose accident was more around 1983 -1986. It did happen there. I could never forget all the emergency equipment rushing to the scene. Fire trucks, ambulances and those red vans CTA used to have that said CTA emergency on them, and the news helicopters that showed up. It was a pretty big thing for that neighborhood at the time. Ahh ok I saw one of those red CTA Emergency truck last night at Madison and Wabash. It appears some piping under the mezzanine level of the station was hanging down and it was there along with one of the cta vans with the cherry picker working on the situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Ahh ok I saw one of those red CTA Emergency truck last night at Madison and Wabash. It appears some piping under the mezzanine level of the station was hanging down and it was there along with one of the cta vans with the cherry picker working on the situation Let's just hope it wasn't the same truck from the 80's. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Probably the accident that holds the most intrigue for me was the Montrose blue line/Kennedy accident in the mid 80's where a #6000 rolled backwards down an enbankment into a #2200 at the station. A man was killed when the 7th car was squeezed into the 8th from the force of the collision. From what I remember on that one, the 6000 had a mechanical problem and the motorman had stopped the train. As he walked through, the brakes did not hold and the train rolled backwards down the hill back toward the Montrose station. There was little if any damage to the back car of the 6000 and the front of the 2200, but for some reason, the 5th car (they only used 6 cars in those days) crumpled, crushing the gentleman in the seat. I went to see that one, got there about the time Mayor Washington arrived to check it out. There wasn't much to see and the fact that someone died was somewhat remarkable, but true. The other accident mentioned was at Addison Street (2308 was the lead car on the trailing train) on a Friday morning, not too long after the Kennedy Extension opened. It was one of many accidents that plagued the line the first year it was open. Many derailments in the Jeff Park yard, an accident (collision) at Belmont on opening day (which closed the line for hours), the Addison Street collision. It was a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 From what I remember on that one, the 6000 had a mechanical problem and the motorman had stopped the train. As he walked through, the brakes did not hold and the train rolled backwards down the hill back toward the Montrose station. There was little if any damage to the back car of the 6000 and the front of the 2200, but for some reason, the 5th car (they only used 6 cars in those days) crumpled, crushing the gentleman in the seat. I went to see that one, got there about the time Mayor Washington arrived to check it out. There wasn't much to see and the fact that someone died was somewhat remarkable, but true. The other accident mentioned was at Addison Street (2308 was the lead car on the trailing train) on a Friday morning, not too long after the Kennedy Extension opened. It was one of many accidents that plagued the line the first year it was open. Many derailments in the Jeff Park yard, an accident (collision) at Belmont on opening day (which closed the line for hours), the Addison Street collision. It was a mess. Thanks for the info. I didn't know about all the earlier crashes. I remember about the Montrose collision, the news media in the days following was quite intense. (as is with most major crashes) Day after day there were stories of how could a train roll backwards down a hill. The matter was concluded by reporting that when the train started rolling all the operator had to do was pull the cherry at the end of the cars to activate the emergency brakes and it would have stopped the train. There was some good footage there, too bad there's not a way to resee it. As far as the 6 car trains, I pretty much grew up riding that line in the 80's. There were 8 car trains then. The 70's I can't say, I wasn't around then. Towards the end of #6000's on the blue, I remember they were strictly ran in rush hours in sets of 8. I've seen pictures of 2 car sets running in 1970. I think I might vaguely remember hearing something about six cars in the 70's. So that might be the period your talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudgym29 Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 [snip - re: the Blue Line] It was one of many accidents that plagued the line the first year it was open. Many derailments in the Jeff Park yard, an accident (collision) at Belmont on opening day (which closed the line for hours), the Addison Street collision. It was a mess. The collision at Belmont suspended all operations for the 'new' Jefferson Park extension. Trains were cut back to the elevated structure at Logan Square until the next day. I rode the West-Northwest trains during the 1970s. It was always two-car trains. Because many of the elevated stations had no attendants after the PM rush. The only surprising thing that might happen was when a 6000-series train was pulled out of the yard and sent on a run, particularly on a weekend. (It tended to be one of the Bicentennial-decorated trains.) Otherwise, the 2200s provided all of the runs. There were dedicated six-car trains, with a 6001-series train [flat doors] in the middle [windows gated on the exterior], which ran only in rush hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 There were dedicated six-car trains, with a 6001-series train [flat doors] in the middle [windows gated on the exterior], which ran only in rush hours. IIRC, the #6000's from St. Louis car company (the ones not rebuilt from 1940's PCC Streetcars) #6001 - #6200 should not have the window gates to prevent someone from putting their arm out the window. #6101 - 02 at Fox River Trolley Museum should reflect this. Anyway, there is an interesting read on the 1977 "L" crash on Wikipedia that details the causes of the crash as well as the physical condition of the motorman who was the striker. Is this story really true? I find this somewhat shocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 IIRC, the #6000's from St. Louis car company (the ones not rebuilt from 1940's PCC Streetcars) #6001 - #6200 should not have the window gates to prevent someone from putting their arm out the window. #6101 - 02 at Fox River Trolley Museum should reflect this. ... The window grills kept moving among the cars, and were necessary on any train running on the Jefferson Park line because of narrow clearances. They were on some of the 6001-6200 cars, but not all of them. It depended on the car assignment. CERA 115, page 12 says "6031-6046, 6049-6052--06/75 and 07/75: Outside window guards were installed." Likewise "6491-6498, 6505, 6506--Window guards were removed, providing components for part of the 6031 group." 6101-6102 were about as original as any of the cars, since they still had the destination sign at the top, instead of the headlight retrofitted there. However. also according to CERA: "6101-6102, 6105-6106, 6241-6242--09/73: Outside window guards were installed." [The last two aren't relevant for our purposes.] The pictures on Fox Valley's web site don't reflect them now, but obviously, 6101-6102 and 5001 have been restored to their original appearance, while the single unit cars have not. Anyway, there is an interesting read on the 1977 "L" crash on Wikipedia that details the causes of the crash as well as the physical condition of the motorman who was the striker. Is this story really true? I find this somewhat shocking. I wouldn't necessarily buy Wikipedia, but would buy the chicago-l.org item on which the Wikipedia is based. Other than the point that the Loop L was backed up because the Evanston trains were using the Ravenswood routing, it appears that one way or the other, the operator was able to overcome the red cab signal. However, there have been other instances of that occurring more recently (i.e. at Oak Street, and whatever the situation recently was at 59th, where apparently one car went to the Jackson Park Branch and the other to Englewood, apparently as a result of crossing an open switch). So chicago-l.org was wrong in saying "Thus, this type of incident is unlikely to be repeated any time in the future..." although none of the latter ones was as severe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 The window grills kept moving among the cars, and were necessary on any train running on the Jefferson Park line because of narrow clearances. They were on some of the 6001-6200 cars, but not all of them. It depended on the car assignment. CERA 115, page 12 says "6031-6046, 6049-6052--06/75 and 07/75: Outside window guards were installed." Likewise "6491-6498, 6505, 6506--Window guards were removed, providing components for part of the 6031 group." 6101-6102 were about as original as any of the cars, since they still had the destination sign at the top, instead of the headlight retrofitted there. However. also according to CERA: "6101-6102, 6105-6106, 6241-6242--09/73: Outside window guards were installed." [The last two aren't relevant for our purposes.] The pictures on Fox Valley's web site don't reflect them now, but obviously, 6101-6102 and 5001 have been restored to their original appearance, while the single unit cars have not. I wouldn't necessarily buy Wikipedia, but would buy the chicago-l.org item on which the Wikipedia is based. Other than the point that the Loop L was backed up because the Evanston trains were using the Ravenswood routing, it appears that one way or the other, the operator was able to overcome the red cab signal. However, there have been other instances of that occurring more recently (i.e. at Oak Street, and whatever the situation recently was at 59th, where apparently one car went to the Jackson Park Branch and the other to Englewood, apparently as a result of crossing an open switch). So chicago-l.org was wrong in saying "Thus, this type of incident is unlikely to be repeated any time in the future..." although none of the latter ones was as severe. Thanks for the info, I didn't know of the window guard swap. I personally know when #6101-02 were on the Ravenswood prior to retirement they didn't have the guards. A few early #6000's floating around on the Evanston express (early 1990's) also didn't have them. I understand your point that they were used exclusively for expressway sections of the Kennedy blue line. Somewhere after they came back from the blue in the mid 1980's the guards must have been removed. As far as the 1977 accident, it does make sense the initial impact would not be enough to derail the cars going less than 15 mph, but putting the cineston controller in a acceleration state may have done it. Also if the driver was impaired it would lead to mass confusion on impact. The only way to really know is to see the NTSB report. Or find some old news footage/clippings on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Anyway, there is an interesting read on the 1977 "L" crash on Wikipedia that details the causes of the crash as well as the physical condition of the motorman who was the striker. Is this story really true? I find this somewhat shocking. Unfortunately, CTA tattler backs up the accusations of Wikipedia. They quote off another site that the driver failed a drug test. So I guess it is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Awesome find last night! I finally located live news video of the Lake/Wabash L crash. Go to the Museum of Broadcast Communications (MBC) website. Scroll down to some news feeds. The video is from Channel 7 with a then young Jay Levine and Rosemary Gulley! Check it out! Excellent video quality for the time! Live newscast, Jay Levine really makes you feel the chaos of the event! An interesting sidenote, Rosemary Gulley would later become a CTA Spokesperson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Awesome find last night! I finally located live news video of the Lake/Wabash L crash. Go to the Museum of Broadcast Communications (MBC) website. Scroll down to some news feeds. The video is from Channel 7 with a then young Jay Levine and Rosemary Gulley! Check it out! Excellent video quality for the time! Live newscast, Jay Levine really makes you feel the chaos of the event! An interesting sidenote, Rosemary Gulley would later become a CTA Spokesperson! Not so easy to find, but scroll down to the bottom of this page, under "News. special reports and bulletins." Also, I got a picture with Windows Media Player, not with Real Player. There is also one of the 1972 IC crash, but apparently without narration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 Also, I got a picture with Windows Media Player, not with Real Player. MBC: Streaming video like it's 1999. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
See Tea Eh Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 MBC: Streaming video like it's 1999. Well, it is a museum, you know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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