Destination Signs

[Guest ctafan630]

Again, even with the clarification of your post, try getting Streeterville/Taylor in one sign for example. With all the confusion on some of the Pace routes mentioned by others on the forum by trying to fit the info with three flips I'd say if CTA can get the relevant info fitted in two flips without those insane abbreviations then go for it. I'm quite nearsighted without my glasses and tested out if I could still make out the signs in the two line format without them and had no more problems than I might if the sign font were full sized. Plus if I'm at a stop that's served by both directions of a route I want to know right away if the bus approaching is the correct direction, not scrambling to rush to get out my wallet to reach my farecard or pass. If you're doing the destinations in three flips that takes too long to let people know that may be their bus.

Who says the Streeterville/Taylor sign has to be on one line? The CTA has had many destination signs where the route was read on one screen while the destination required two flips before it was complete. Why can't the reverse be true where the route needs two flips before getting to the destination?

Which stop are you talking about where the bus serves both directions? How many of these stops are there in the CTA system?

[geneking7320]

Who says the Streeterville/Taylor sign has to be on one line? The CTA has had many destination signs where the route was read on one screen while the destination required two flips before it was complete. Why can't the reverse be true where the route needs two flips before getting to the destination?

Which stop are you talking about where the bus serves both directions? How many of these stops are there in the CTA system?

A good example of stops being served by both directions of a route would be at 'L' stations. On the south side I can suggest the Indiana Green Line station along with the 35th Red Line station. Both directions of route 39 PERSHING stop at the same place at these respective stations.

[jajuan]

Who says the Streeterville/Taylor sign has to be on one line? The CTA has had many destination signs where the route was read on one screen while the destination required two flips before it was complete. Why can't the reverse be true where the route needs two flips before getting to the destination?

Which stop are you talking about where the bus serves both directions? How many of these stops are there in the CTA system?

There are shopping center stops (Ford City along 54B and 79 to/from Solo Cup comes to mind as well as 96 serving Lincolnwood Town Center in both directions) where this is the case, and even if the route name isn't that long for the routes that serve those stops, I was using them as an example of the type of stop where you really don't want to be reading through three flips in a destination sign. I know I don't. As for L stations you also have Midway Orange Line on 54B. Yes CTA had routes where the destination was shown on two flips after the route, and I found them very annoying. Now that CTA is capable of doing it with the current signs, I'm all for showing me the route name and getting to the point of saying where the darn bus is going without flipping a gazillion flips to do it. I'm catching a bus not reading a novel.

[trainman8119]

I'm all for showing me the route name and getting to the point of saying where the darn bus is going without flipping a gazillion flips to do it. I'm catching a bus not reading a novel.

Therin lies the problem with the electronic signs vs the curtains. That is the funny thing about the ADA regs...it doesn't take into account that even those who can see fine can't figure out where a bus is actually going either because the print is too small, to flippant, too abbreviated, or even too broken !!!

[Busjack]

That is the funny thing about the ADA regs...it doesn't take into account that even those who can see fine can't figure out where a bus is actually going either because the print is too small, to flippant, too abbreviated, or even too broken !!!

Of course, there is also Mr. CTA, or Miss Pace, unless one is deaf, but can see. As well as the side sign, although it is liable to flip more.

And, of course, the problem mentioned yesterday that if the CD or IBS doesn't reset the sign at the terminal, both will be wrong (especially somewhere like Old Orchard).

[cta_44499_FG]

Actually, the ones I saw in the last week said IRVING PARK/BROADWAY on two lines instead of IRVING PARK/SHERIDAN.

The 92 Foster buses all show JEFFERSON PARK/BLUE LINE on two lines (even the Flx's I saw), but the 81 Lawrence still has JEFF PK/BLUE LINE on one line.

The Novas are kinda funny because the front reads 81 JEFF/BLUE LINE but the side reads 81 to BLUELINE (all in one word). Take a look next time if you didn't notice before.

[cta_44499_FG]

Therin lies the problem with the electronic signs vs the curtains. That is the funny thing about the ADA regs...it doesn't take into account that even those who can see fine can't figure out where a bus is actually going either because the print is too small, to flippant, too abbreviated, or even too broken !!!

What's wrong trainman? Don't you know where the X78 BELMONTRRKoERLANDS--- is going? ;)

[pudgym29]

Who says the Streeterville/Taylor sign has to be on one line? The CTA has had many destination signs where the route was read on one screen while the destination required two flips before it was complete. Why can't the reverse be true where the route needs two flips before getting to the destination?

Which stop are you talking about where the bus serves both directions? How many of these stops are there in the CTA system?

Rapid Transit stations such as Logan Square with route #76 Diversey.

[Guest ctafan630]

There are shopping center stops (Ford City along 54B and 79 to/from Solo Cup comes to mind as well as 96 serving Lincolnwood Town Center in both directions) where this is the case, and even if the route name isn't that long for the routes that serve those stops, I was using them as an example of the type of stop where you really don't want to be reading through three flips in a destination sign. I know I don't. As for L stations you also have Midway Orange Line on 54B. Yes CTA had routes where the destination was shown on two flips after the route, and I found them very annoying. Now that CTA is capable of doing it with the current signs, I'm all for showing me the route name and getting to the point of saying where the darn bus is going without flipping a gazillion flips to do it. I'm catching a bus not reading a novel.

In the examples you mentioned, most of the time a passenger would have been waiting at the stop for the bus to pull up so they should have ample time to the full read out of the sign and determine which way the bus is headed. In the instances where a passenger has to run and catch the bus, that person would have to ask the driver where the bus is headed so I still don't see a route name and destination in 3 parts being a problem.

For the Streeterville Route why can't the CTA just put the route name and destination on one screen since they have made the font smaller. With the newer buses what is stopping the CTA from making the font smaller and just having a fixed sign showing the route name and destination?

[Guest ctafan630]

Now that CTA is capable of doing it with the current signs, I'm all for showing me the route name and getting to the point of saying where the darn bus is going without flipping a gazillion flips to do it. I'm catching a bus not reading a novel.

How often is the Route name and destination announced when a bus makes a stop? Is it only at major intersections?

This could be another solution to those instances at the shopping center and connections at the L stations. Thus you would avoid having to do any reading.

[jajuan]

How often is the Route name and destination announced when a bus makes a stop? Is it only at major intersections?

This could be another solution to those instances at the shopping center and connections at the L stations. Thus you would avoid having to do any reading.

And there are times when the Bus Announcement system is not turned on to announce route and destination. Not to mention there are those who are hearing impaired so the announcement system would not make much difference for them. Also not all multidirection stops are at a vantage point where you have the advantage of seeing which direction the bus approached from so that is not necessarily true that a person would see that. For the 35th Red Line and Midway Orange Line stations this is definitely the case. For the Red Line both EB and WB 39 buses are approaching north along South LaSalle to reach the station. For the Orange Line all 54B buses approach east on 59th Street into the terminal. So you would not which is which in each case until you see a destination sign. More importantly, I like knowing before that bus gets right in front of me that that is the right bus so I can have fare ready and not hold up everyone else on the bus because I know how much it annoys the heck out of me to be held up waiting for someone to have his fare ready when he should have already been ready before boarding. I don't see how waiting for a destination sign to flip three, four, five times helps me do that, and the bus announcement system does not say what route the bus is working until it is right in front of you and the driver opens the doors.

[Guest ctafan630]

More importantly, I like knowing before that bus gets right in front of me that that is the right bus so I can have fare ready and not hold up everyone else on the bus because I know how much it annoys the heck out of me to be held up waiting for someone to have his fare ready when he should have already been ready before boarding. I don't see how waiting for a destination sign to flip three, four, five times helps me do that, and the bus announcement system does not say what route the bus is working until it is right in front of you and the driver opens the doors.

You are entitled to your opinion as am I. Just like you, I like to know where the bus is going before it stops so I know I am on the right bus and do not hold up the line. However 9 times out of 10 this can be determined before the bus comes to a stop by looking at the destination sign. I do not see how this achieved when the font on the digital displays keeps getting smaller and smaller in order to display the entire route name and destination.

While on my way to work today I saw a NF and it took only 2 seconds for a sign to flip from the route name to the destination. I do not think making a passenger look at a sign an extra 4 seconds would cause a huge inconvienence.

The signs on the Nova buses do take a little longer to change.

[jajuan]

You are entitled to your opinion as am I. Just like you, I like to know where the bus is going before it stops so I know I am on the right bus and do not hold up the line. However 9 times out of 10 this can be determined before the bus comes to a stop by looking at the destination sign. I do not see how this achieved when the font on the digital displays keeps getting smaller and smaller in order to display the entire route name and destination.

While on my way to work today I saw a NF and it took only 2 seconds for a sign to flip from the route name to the destination. I do not think making a passenger look at a sign an extra 4 seconds would cause a huge inconvienence.

The signs on the Nova buses do take a little longer to change.

Right you're entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I don't like seeing flip after flip after flip when now it can be done in two. I'm sorry it's just flatout ridiculous with the insane number of flips. I'd bargain that someone who can see the font used here on the forum should be able to see the font on a two line bus destination sign. So really why this back and forth? You don't like the updated signs and I and some others have no problem with them. So how about we both just leave it at that.

[Guest ctafan630]

I'm sorry it's just flatout ridiculous with the insane number of flips.

Wow, three or four flips is insane. It would take no more than 10 seconds to read all the information on a sign.

I'd bargain that someone who can see the font used here on the forum should be able to see the font on a two line bus destination sign.

How small of a font are you willing to deal with?

So really why this back and forth? You don't like the updated signs and I and some others have no problem with them. So how about we both just leave it at that.

The thread suggested BEST PRACTICES. Is it a BEST PRACTICE to have small font and put the route name and destination on a sign without any flips just because it can be done???

[BusHunter]

A little snafu with the #1000's at FG. The #56 signs SB display #N56 to State/Wash. It only displays on SB's and on #1000's. It's kind of confusing at Jeff. PK. It stops next to the #56A and it almost looks like the North Milwaukee with the N on there. Someone not thinking could mistake the two. BTW, I've often wondered once a CTA bus stops at the terminal (let's say Jeff. Pk) and opens it's doors why the talking destination part of the Clever Devices doesn't recycle like on PACE. PACE repeats the bus and destination every 30 to 60 seconds. If I were blind I would not know what bus is what riding CTA.

[geneking7320]

Either on this thread or another one like it I suggested CTA go to signs showing just route number and destination [like Pace NW does, ie, 290 Howard CTA].

I still think it is a good idea.

Gene King

[Busjack]

Either on this thread or another one like it I suggested CTA go to signs showing just route number and destination [like Pace NW does, ie, 290 Howard CTA].

I still think it is a good idea.

Gene King

I don't vote for it.

If the terminal is still on the main street, would 4 Cottage Grove-94th just become 4 94th (sort of like the 290 Central Ave sign)? Too confusing, especially since Michigan Ave. downtown would still have 3 95th, X3 95th, and X4 95th, as well as the probable 79th and 81st short turns.

Besides that, I am sure that Chicagoans are wedded to the concept that subject to a few exceptions, the main street name should appear on the bus. Since the feds now mandate the same sign on the front and side, the route (usually the street) name should appear here.

Even though Pace said 3 years ago that it was standardizing its signs, it never has. Street names appear on South or West division buses, but not NW, SW, or NS buses, except not on S or W if a result of a restructuring, or on NS bus routes inherited from Wilbus, or not routes named after terminals, except in Joliet, etc. And, of course, the incomprehensible destinations, such as Castlecrest (apparently somewhere near Beach Park).

[geneking7320]

I don't vote for it.

If the terminal is still on the main street, would 4 Cottage Grove-94th just become 4 94th (sort of like the 290 Central Ave sign)? Too confusing, especially since Michigan Ave. downtown would still have 3 95th, X3 95th, and X4 95th, as well as the probable 79th and 81st short turns.

Besides that, I am sure that Chicagoans are wedded to the concept that subject to a few exceptions, the main street name should appear on the bus. Since the feds now mandate the same sign on the front and side, the route (usually the street) name should appear here.

Even though Pace said 3 years ago that it was standardizing its signs, it never has. Street names appear on South or West division buses, but not NW, SW, or NS buses, except not on S or W if a result of a restructuring, or on NS bus routes inherited from Wilbus, or not routes named after terminals, except in Joliet, etc. And, of course, the incomprehensible destinations, such as Castlecrest (apparently somewhere near Beach Park).

If you can get the whole "message" on one screen you should do so. My travel patterns bring me into frequent contact with routes 3 and 4. Those are great examples of where the whole route and destination should fit [29 STATE - 95th] is even better.

[qwantae]

On the Green Line, It's pretty rare that they changed from "Harlem/Lake" to "Harlem". Thats making it confused to customers and Tourist. Oak Park is like a little Tourist Suburb. So it would've been better off is to left it "Harlem/ Lake" otherwise change it to "Oak Park" (just like Blue Line to "Forest Park") so people will know which part of Harlem is going to since Harlem is a long and one of the busiest streets in Chicagoland.

[Busjack]

On the Green Line, It's pretty rare that they changed from "Harlem/Lake" to "Harlem". Thats making it confused to customers and Tourist. Oak Park is like a little Tourist Suburb. So it would've been better off is to left it "Harlem/ Lake" otherwise change it to "Oak Park" (just like Blue Line to "Forest Park") so people will know which part of Harlem is going to since Harlem is a long and one of the busiest streets in Chicagoland.

Of course, Oak Park would imply Oak Park Ave., at 6800 W., instead of Harlem at 7200 W.*

Also, before all this Green Line business, the terminal was identified on the signs hanging from the canopies as "Harlem-Forest Park," and technically the west stairway at the Harlem-Lake station is in Forest Park, although I commented that the Marion accessible entrance is in Oak Park.

____

*Apparently, the Blue Line terminal was renamed from DesPlaines to Forest Park because of confusion between the Ave. and city. Then, again, the other terminal was renamed from Cicero-Berwyn to 54th Ave.

[Guest ctafan630]

Either on this thread or another one like it I suggested CTA go to signs showing just route number and destination [like Pace NW does, ie, 290 Howard CTA].

I still think it is a good idea.

Gene King

I agree with Busjack. There are to many routes that point to an L station, like 81W. Under your idea the destination sign could be 81W to Blue Line. Granted the CTA could clarify by saying Cumberland Blue line or Jeff Park Blue line, but most of the time the destination reads to Blue Line.

[jajuan]

Wow, three or four flips is insane. It would take no more than 10 seconds to read all the information on a sign.

How small of a font are you willing to deal with?

The thread suggested BEST PRACTICES. Is it a BEST PRACTICE to have small font and put the route name and destination on a sign without any flips just because it can be done???

And again I mentioned what my opinion is of what I think works. Now again how about we let it go already since it's obvious we're of different minds on the issue and it's not going to change. And since when is it customary that we try to drop to childish taunts when one sticks to his view that another doesn't like as shown in that whole 'Wow three or four flips is an insane number of flips' comment? And for the record, yep when it's totally unnecessary in my view. Now if you want continue on with it, and I'm stressing in an adult manner at that, you can PM me so someone else can have an opportunity to share something new.

[cta_44499_FG]

And again I mentioned what my opinion is of what I think works. Now again how about we let it go already since it's obvious we're of different minds on the issue and it's not going to change. And since when is it customary that we try to drop to childish taunts when one sticks to his view that another doesn't like as shown in that whole 'Wow three or four flips is an insane number of flips' comment? And for the record, yep when it's totally unnecessary in my view. Now if you want continue on with it, and I'm stressing in an adult manner at that, you can PM me so someone else can have an opportunity to share something new.

Signs are getting screwed up again....

84 Peterson NFs are running around with the half cut off destination of CALDWELL/CENTRAL now.