New Equipment

[trainman8119]

Word is circulating that a RFP for new highliners has been put out. Apparently, money available will result in about 160 new cars. The rumor is that only one bid has been received to date (mfg unknown) and that the soonest the new stuff would arrive would be a minimum 2 years away.

[Busjack]

On the BiLevel (Feb 2009) said:

The replacement cost for these cars is currently $585 million. We also need more rolling stock and locomotives on our diesel lines. Our need is so great, in fact, that Metra has already started the bidding process for the Highliner cars, 10 locomotives and 50 gallery cars, even though we don't yet have the money. We want to be ready to move quickly on these purchases if the state comes through.

I guess you actually work and don't read on the job.

The Tribune article on the $3 Billion capital bill said:

Metra wants to use its $290.7 million to buy 160 new cars for the Metra Electric line, a project with an estimated tab of $585 million, according to agency officials.

So, the $3 Billion bill covers about half of what Metra wants. Since Quinn is proposing a total of $25 Billion, Metra must be figuring that the other half will be in that pie.

At least Metra (through On the BiLevel) was being up front about its "fishing" RFPs, as opposed to CTA (900 hybrid buses) and Pace (50 over the road coaches).

Also, there being only a single bidder is not surprising, given NICTD's experience, where it pretty much had to tack onto Metra's specification, and the fact that the only other builder of double deck cars in this market is Bombardier, which makes the type that crumples up in Los Angeles, and isn't a gallery type (instead is a low floor in the middle, and a single decker over the trucks).

The real question is whether Sumitomo held its price, as Metra said it would three years ago. However, Metra didn't get the money then, so Sumitomo probably didn't.

[MetroShadow]

So, the $3 Billion bill covers about half of what Metra wants. Since Quinn is proposing a total of $25 Billion, Metra must be figuring that the other half will be in that pie.

At least Metra (through On the BiLevel) was being up front about its "fishing" RFPs, as opposed to CTA (900 hybrid buses) and Pace (50 over the road coaches).

Also, there being only a single bidder is not surprising, given NICTD's experience, where it pretty much had to tack onto Metra's specification, and the fact that the only other builder of double deck cars in this market is Bombardier, which makes the type that crinkles up in Los Angeles, and isn't a gallery type (instead is a low floor in the middle, and a single decker over the trucks).

I think this is a question with an obvious answer, given the fact that the bidder meets Metra's specs, but would those Bombardier models actually work on the MED line, even if you have to put the electric overhead on top?

[Busjack]

I think this is a question with an obvious answer, given the fact that the bidder meets Metra's specs, but would those Bombardier models actually work on the MED line, even if you have to put the electric overhead on top?

That, and that MED has high platforms, probably answer your question.

[geneking7320]

Does anyone know if the Metra RFP is for a single doorway car [like the Highliner IIs] or a double doorway car [like the initial Highliners or NICTD's bilevel cars]?

[Busjack]

Does anyone know if the Metra RFP is for a single doorway car [like the Highliner IIs] or a double doorway car [like the initial Highliners or NICTD's bilevel cars]?

Undoubtedly it is the same as what they have now, especially for the 1200s.

NICTD needed the extra door, because they don't have high level platforms at many of their stations. Interestingly, the pictures of the NICTD cars don't show traps or stairs at the middle door, while some of the pictures of the Metra 1200s do (even though those would be limited to emergency use).

Something that seems weird in the NICTD photos and films are that the indentations for the pans and the single doors are not on the cab end, but I guess that's what you get if there isn't a dedicated cab vestibule.

[geneking7320]

Undoubtedly it is the same as what they have now, especially for the 1200s.

NICTD needed the extra door, because they don't have high level platforms at many of their stations. Interestingly, the pictures of the NICTD cars don't show traps or stairs at the middle door, while some of the pictures of the Metra 1200s do (even though those would be limited to emergency use).

Something that seems weird in the NICTD photos and films are that the indentations for the pans and the single doors are not on the cab end, but I guess that's what you get if there isn't a dedicated cab vestibule.

My previous post was inspired by the desire to reduce dwell times by having more doorways, ie like the first highliners. I figured if the 2 doorway (3 panels) layout was initially valid it likely still is. Now about the pan indentations - that maybe caused by an FRA regulation that precludes passenger doors at the cab end of the car [to strenthen the car and increase operator safety?]. If you Google SEPTA's Silverliner V car (single level) you'll note the cab end does not have doors. If you look at the NICTD bilevel car it (functionally) appears they took the Highliner I car and placed the cab at the non-pan end.

Gene King

[Busjack]

I'm not going to search the Federal Register, but I'm sure it has more to do with Metra's pattern on the diesel lines that the cab is on the gallery level, and the 1200s just being an electric adaptation of the 8500s.

As far as the South Shore, when you have steel coils puncturing the front of the car (as happened when a steel truck was stopped on the tracks in Burns Harbor and struck by a train), there is not much of anything that will prevent fatalities.

[trainman8119]

but I'm sure it has more to do with Metra's pattern on the diesel lines that the cab is on the gallery level, and the 1200s just being an electric adaptation of the 8500s.

That is part of it, but mainly, when the cars were being designed, the engineers requested that

the cab be high as they are on the diesel cab cars.

[west towns]

That is part of it, but mainly, when the cars were being designed, the engineers requested that

the cab be high as they are on the diesel cab cars.

What about the proposed DMU's for the STAR and SE line? these were shown as single levels.

[Busjack]

What about the proposed DMU's for the STAR and SE line? these were shown as single levels.

With the CN taking over the EJ&E, and the RTA now talking about BRT along the Jane Addams, I wouldn't be putting betting money on the STAR line in the near future. Nor on the SE line when its chief proponent became Senate Candidate #5.

However, the 160 electric cars and the 60 nonpowered ones, which will be double deckers, seem closer on the horizon.

[west towns]

With the CN taking over the EJ&E, and the RTA now talking about BRT along the Jane Addams, I wouldn't be putting betting money on the STAR line in the near future. Nor on the SE line when its chief proponent became Senate Candidate #5.

However, the 160 electric cars and the 60 nonpowered ones, which will be double deckers, seem closer on the horizon.

It seems odd for RTA to be talking about BRT on I-90 even while Metra trys to salvage whats left of the AA study for the STAR line. Those poor NW suburban communities which have been told the STAR is coming for years and most mayors placed all their bets on this thing happening.

Wonder how their tune changes when they have seen no corridor investment from Metra and are offered a BRT, will they take it? Remember the I-90 started out as the 'Blue Line' extension to Schaumburg over a decade ago. Blue line lost its ranking when CTA proposed to tunnel under O'Hare as part of the O'Hare runway expansion coming out into Elk Grove village. The mayors led by Elk Grove village killed that idea as supporting the CTA equates to the death sentence with O'hare expansion. And now O'Hare has a new runway and is continuing to expand. Wonder who won that deal.

[Busjack]

It seems odd for RTA to be talking about BRT on I-90 even while Metra trys to salvage whats left of the AA study for the STAR line. Those poor NW suburban communities which have been told the STAR is coming for years and most mayors placed all their bets on this thing happening....

Since you mentioned regional planning in another context, and we are just speculating anyway, this does provide an example of where "regional planning" (using the term loosely) has resulted in nothing tangible.

The RTA Planning Page indicates that the Northwest Corridor has been studied for at least 10 years, and nothing has come of that yet. It also indicates that back then, bus on shoulder would attract the fewest new riders. Of course, the Star Line and the EJ&E takeover have been proposed or happened, respectively, after then.

One can read too much into a press event, but all of this may be rational if the RTA says that the buses (presumably the OTR ones according to metralink) will go through their depreciation cycle by the time the Star Line is actually ready to start service, at the glacial pace* all of these New Starts are proceeding. But you wonder if this is one of the alternative analyses that the RTA should have taken over from the service boards under the 2008 legislation.

_________

*Possibly a good service mark for a bus service. B)

[artthouwill]

Word is circulating that a RFP for new highliners has been put out. Apparently, money available will result in about 160 new cars. The rumor is that only one bid has been received to date (mfg unknown) and that the soonest the new stuff would arrive would be a minimum 2 years away.

In this month's issue of On the Bilevel, Metra announced it was ordering 160 new cars for the ME

http://metrarail.com/content/dam/metra/documents/Bi_Level/OTBLSept2010..pdf

What I don't understand, is why only half of the cars will have bathrooms. I don't remember ever riding on a diesel car WITHOUT one, even if it was a closet of a bathroom like the 7200s or the 700s on the BNSF. I know the new washrooms are bulky due to the ADA, but if these cars are not paired properly, you could have a 3 car gap between cars with a restroom. I know the old ME cars have no washroom at all, which already puts the ME behind the other lines in that regard.

I do appreciate that fact that ME will be getting new cars, even if it is not until 2012, but still.

[busfan2847]

In this month's issue of On the Bilevel, Metra announced it was ordering 160 new cars for the ME

http://metrarail.com/content/dam/metra/documents/Bi_Level/OTBLSept2010..pdf

What I don't understand, is why only half of the cars will have bathrooms. I don't remember ever riding on a diesel car WITHOUT one, even if it was a closet of a bathroom like the 7200s or the 700s on the BNSF. I know the new washrooms are bulky due to the ADA, but if these cars are not paired properly, you could have a 3 car gap between cars with a restroom. I know the old ME cars have no washroom at all, which already puts the ME behind the other lines in that regard.

I do appreciate that fact that ME will be getting new cars, even if it is not until 2012, but still.

Because it is cheaper. There are plans to remove toilets from some of the diesel cars and replace them with seats, however, with the recession there is no longer such a need for additional seating.

[trainman8119]

Because it is cheaper. There are plans to remove toilets from some of the diesel cars and replace them with seats, however, with the recession there is no longer such a need for additional seating.

THERE IS ALWAYS A NEED FOR ADDITIONAL SEATING !!!!! As long as there are wheelchairs and knuckleheads

with bikes who won't ride them and people who insist on not folding strollers, seating will continue

to be at a premium. The bonehead comment from Metra though was stating that they would add seating

by removing a single washroom on a single car....a whole 2 seats. Dont forget, the current ADA cars,

with the large washrooms and need for chair space results in 26 less seats per car that have them. So,

when you hear about overcrowded trains on the UP, that is the majority of the reason why. If you have

a train with, say 5 6000 series cars that means 125+ less capacity. People forget about stuff like that.

[Busjack]

Tribune article that the first 4 cars are going into service on the ME.

_________

I guess, though, that I should have posted this under Red Line.:lol:

[artthouwill]

Tribune article that the first 4 cars are going into service on the ME.

_________

I guess, though, that I should have posted this under Red Line.

Interesting that new CTA artics and new Pace Eldos are spotted first, but the new ME Highliners will probably be the first new vehicles to roll between the three agencies that have new vehicles making their debut this month. We will also see how fast (or slow) deliveries for these new cars will be. I will be a little sad to see the old ME cars go, but they are showing their age, or should I say they are worse for wear than the old VRE cars (which were Metra's to begin with) that I see still rolling around on the UP Lines (and they still look good).

I'm glad you didn't put this under the REd Line, it might've gotten derailed up north :D

[Busjack]

Tribune video.

I guess it is no big surprise that the first car is 1227.

[trainman8119]

I guess it is no big surprise that the first car is 1227.

I don't know if I am surprised or not. The rumor floating around was that

1201-1226 were going to be sold to the South Shore once the new cars came in.

The reason being was that the new cars would not marry up with the other 1200s.

I was not totally sure that the numbering would start with 1227. Since I am off

on sick leave, I am not sure exactly what is happening like I might normally.

If I talk to someone, I'll follow up. It does sound, though, like it'll still

be a little bit before there is any mass arrival of new equipment.

[Busjack]

I don't know if I am surprised or not. The rumor floating around was that

1201-1226 were going to be sold to the South Shore once the new cars came in.

The reason being was that the new cars would not marry up with the other 1200s.

I was not totally sure that the numbering would start with 1227. Since I am off

on sick leave, I am not sure exactly what is happening like I might normally.

If I talk to someone, I'll follow up. It does sound, though, like it'll still

be a little bit before there is any mass arrival of new equipment.

The impression that was in the news media is that this order was virtually identical to the first 26 cars. (News Radio 780 story previously cited).

There is no way they could be sold to the South Shore, as it went in hock for the next 15 years to buy the 300 series, which, unlike the 1200s, had to have the extra door with the trap for where they did not have high level platforms.

I also seem to remember that when Metra said that this order was going to be 160 cars, I asked did that mean fleet expansion, and you said yes because the washrooms, etc. meant that the cars could not hold as many passengers as the 1970s era cars did.

[trainman8119]

The first thing that was done when the South Shore got the 300 series cars was to see if they worked with the 1200s. This was done before they were ever put into service. The cars are basically the same as what is already here, unlike the CTA who claims it would take a total design change to put seats in the proper way. What I was hearing was that these cars were supposed to be like the CTA 5000s in that they were going to change from DC to AC (or was it the other way around). Like I said, I'm not around right now, so I don't know if they are really the same or different.

As for fleet expansion, 160 cars are replacing 145, so that is an additional 15 (41 if they keep 1200-26). The outer yards are full as they are now, so if there are that many cars, they more than likely would have to hang out at 18th street as spares. Regarding seating, like our other service boards, reducing seating means nothing. Nippon cars have 126 seats vs 144 on the highliners or diesel line Budds. You might be able to add a few with one less bathroom per set of the new order (maybe 130-132).

[Busjack]

The first thing that was done when the South Shore got the 300 series cars was to see if they worked with the 1200s. This was done before they were ever put into service. The cars are basically the same as what is already here, unlike the CTA who claims it would take a total design change to put seats in the proper way. What I was hearing was that these cars were supposed to be like the CTA 5000s in that they were going to change from DC to AC (or was it the other way around). Like I said, I'm not around right now, so I don't know if they are really the same or different.

As for fleet expansion, 160 cars are replacing 145, so that is an additional 15 (41 if they keep 1200-26). The outer yards are full as they are now, so if there are that many cars, they more than likely would have to hang out at 18th street as spares. Regarding seating, like our other service boards, reducing seating means nothing. Nippon cars have 126 seats vs 144 on the highliners or diesel line Budds. You might be able to add a few with one less bathroom per set of the new order (maybe 130-132).

The South Shore converted the existing single level cars to AC traction about 10 years ago. As noted, the 300 series was a tack on to the Metra order, except NICTD went ahead when Metra said it didn't have any money.

There was also talk that the ME would have to build a new yard south of University Park, not only to store the new cars, but have a facility to pump out the toilet tanks. I don't know if anything ever came of that.

[trainman8119]

The South Shore converted the existing single level cars to AC traction about 10 years ago. As noted, the 300 series was a tack on to the Metra order, except NICTD went ahead when Metra said it didn't have any money.

There was also talk that the ME would have to build a new yard south of University Park, not only to store the new cars, but have a facility to pump out the toilet tanks. I don't know if anything ever came of that.

I was referring to the new Metra order (1227 & up) switching over not the South Shore.

As for the new yard, I think that was a pipe dream of extending to Peotone. Not much talk of that right now. All of the pumping is done at the interior yards anyway (18th St., Western Ave, Cal Ave, 47th St. 14th St).