New Eldorados?

[Busjack]

Normally, I wouldn't trust Wikipedia that much, but in this case, that's about right. 58 stimulus buses starting from 2767-2825 would make 58, though remember there is no buses ending in "13" so there'll be no 2813. So it'll either be 57 if it stops at 2825 or 58, but extend to 2826.

Especially since I posted it.

However, bus math fooled you again. The way to count is 2825 minus 2766, since 2767 is included in the new set. Of course, 2813 is excluded. Thus, 58 on top of 2766 gets you to 2825.

As I previously mentioned, the original contract was for up to 222 buses, but this would get you to 223, not that I think ElDorado minds.

102 -- 2006 models (2600-2702 x 13) 38 -- 2007 models (2703-2741 x 13) 25 -- 2009 models (2742-2766) 58 -- 2010 models (2767-2825 x 13--projected)__________223 

[Guest]

Normally, I wouldn't trust Wikipedia that much, but in this case, that's about right. 58 stimulus buses starting from 2767-2825 would make 58, though remember there is no buses ending in "13" so there'll be no 2813. So it'll either be 57 if it stops at 2825 or 58, but extend to 2826. With that many buses coming plus some 40 footers also eventually coming from somewhere TBD, they'll be spread out all over the place. I don't believe there are 58 of the 1993 Orion IVs and Nova Classics combined at this point, so that could mean the worst of the 1999 Nabis could also smell retirement.

If North were to say goodbye to their Nabis's, give em to us!. I have to say in the three years operating the Nabis at Academy I havent had too many problems. Ive actually had more issues with the Orions than our Nabis.

[Busjack]

If North were to say goodbye to their Nabis's, give em to us!. I have to say in the three years operating the Nabis at Academy I havent had too many problems. Ive actually had more issues with the Orions than our Nabis.

We're getting too far into the realm of nonuseful speculation, except to say that with regard to North NABIs, all except 2401 and 2421 (which I assume they need) are 35 footers. May as well get back two of the 6600s you dropped off at West.

The only valid question posed by rotjohns is whether the 58 will retire any 1999 NABIs as well as the 1993 Orions and 1997 Nova Classics, given that, after the cutbacks, Pace may have over ordered. Up to now, the indication from Pace has been that the NABIs got some work and are not slated to be removed from service until their FTA service life expires, or late 2011. Of course, that could be subject to change without notice.

[PACE 834]

According to the paperwork on both Eldorados#2769&2770,they will be heading to NW Division soon.Anybody's guess as to the routes they'll be assigned to.

[Guest]

We're getting too far into the realm of nonuseful speculation, except to say that with regard to North NABIs, all except 2401 and 2421 (which I assume they need) are 35 footers. May as well get back two of the 6600s you dropped off at West.

The only valid question posed by rotjohns is whether the 58 will retire any 1999 NABIs as well as the 1993 Orions and 1997 Nova Classics, given that, after the cutbacks, Pace may have over ordered. Up to now, the indication from Pace has been that the NABIs got some work and are not slated to be removed from service until their FTA service life expires, or late 2011. Of course, that could be subject to change without notice.

Its just mind boggling how after we lost some 6600s to West, that Pace is sending them back, even with the new Eldo deliveries. After the last day I worked two weeks ago, sending #2372 to S. Holland, Orion #2293 was the next one in line to dead storage. Im wondering if West or NW gets more Eldos, we will get back our 6600s from West or possibly recieving more 40ft. Nabis from the system given if we do get a new Pace contract in Aug. Im kinda excited to see how this may turn out.

[rotjohns]

According to the paperwork on both Eldorados#2769&2770,they will be heading to NW Division soon.Anybody's guess as to the routes they'll be assigned to.

I'm not in the loop as far as ridership goes at NW so I couldn't tell you, but it would seem like they'll end up in not so heavy routes up there and will start the canning process of the old Orions since they probably don't fill up in those areas anyway. And to Busjack's point, I counted 25 1993 Orions on Webwatch this morning (I'll post them in the thread "What's left for the 1993 Orions" shortly). This doesn't include the contractor routes at 1st Student in Westmont and Naperville so I'd say add an additional 7-10 to those. That means the max is around 35. There's probably only about 5-7 Nova Classics still left and all of them are at SW now so that takes the max to around 42, give or take. So that would leave 16 Eldos that would have to go somewhere, but as Busjack stated, the 1999 Nabis aren't due to retire until 2011 unless there are some really trashy ones (which I know South does have a few). Pace definitely didn't expect cutbacks and with the prospect of those not coming anytime soon nor will we see any new routes, it seems that's the only option unless Pace sends some of them back.

[Busjack]

... And to Busjack's point, I counted 25 1993 Orions on Webwatch this morning (I'll post them in the thread "What's left for the 1993 Orions" shortly). This doesn't include the contractor routes at 1st Student in Westmont and Naperville so I'd say add an additional 7-10 to those. That means the max is around 35. There's probably only about 5-7 Nova Classics still left and all of them are at SW now so that takes the max to around 42, give or take....

While I think that they overbought, WebWatch isn't a good source, since there a nonshowing routes, such as 326, runs I know that are there but don't show up (like on 423 on a consistent basis), the Orions that sporadically show up at North (although RailwayModeler said they lost some when they lost the 580s), and 5 that sit most of the time in the Lake Cook fence. For instance, I thought there were 10 at North until RailwayModeler cited some other numbers. Throw in a couple of Naperville buses not on WebWatch, as well as the spare ratio, and you get the message.

.... it seems that's the only option unless Pace sends some of them back.

Nothing to indicate that contracts are revocable. The feds paid for them. I'm really sure that ElDorado is going to say "we'll absorb $3 million or so." (I hope not, as one of my mutual funds has done quite well with Thor Industries stock).

In the old days, some TAs took the others' leftovers, and there were reports about Minnesota recently buying Rochester NY buses, but I sort of doubt that there is a big demand for little blue buses (even without the decals) unless Peoria is that desperate.

[rotjohns]

While I think that they overbought, WebWatch isn't a good source, since there a nonshowing routes, such as 326, runs I know that are there but don't show up (like on 423 on a consistent basis), the Orions that sporadically show up at North (although RailwayModeler said they lost some when they lost the 580s), and 5 that sit most of the time in the Lake Cook fence. For instance, I thought there were 10 at North until RailwayModeler cited some other numbers. Throw in a couple of Naperville buses not on WebWatch, as well as the spare ratio, and you get the message.

Nothing to indicate that contracts are revocable. The feds paid for them. I'm really sure that ElDorado is going to say "we'll absorb $3 million or so." (I hope not, as one of my mutual funds has done quite well with Thor Industries stock).

In the old days, some TAs took the others' leftovers, and there were reports about Minnesota recently buying Rochester NY buses, but I sort of doubt that there is a big demand for little blue buses (even without the decals) unless Peoria is that desperate.

True, Webwatch is not that great as some routes don't show up. Look at route 565, the heaviest route in the Waukegan area and we can never see how many buses are up there, nor can we see if Nabis or a few Orions are up there because it doesn't show up. I'd have to imagine both 40 foot Nabis that Waukegan has probably runs that route (RailwayModeler can verify). I guess I look at the accuracy of Webwatch and assume that it is, but the only way to truly know is to see it yourself in person (or work for Pace...lol). Here's another example, CTA5750 said 2293 is gone, but yesterday I saw it on Webwatch on the 606 during rush hour. So unless someone physically goes to Schaumburg to verify, I'd go by what he states since he would know. But that's another thread for another day. Now as far as the Eldos go, given the 58 that are coming are paid for, it will be interesting to see where they fully end up and if indeed some of the 1999 Nabis are gone a tad early (or in 5750's case, sent to Academy).

[Busjack]

According to the paperwork on both Eldorados#2769&2770,they will be heading to NW Division soon.Anybody's guess as to the routes they'll be assigned to.

I know that the question was rhetorical, but one would guess to fill out the routes that PACE NORTHWEST said were already partially covered by them, as well as the ones I surmised in the prior post.

Although it appears that NW will end up with about 90+ 6000s, I would nominate any route except the following or one interlined with it: 208, 223 weekday, 250, 270, and 290. (The interline probably means 240, 241, and 272 will usually run 40 foot buses.)

I still figure that all of North Shore's Orion Is are replaced by ElDorados. I hedged when it was announced that the Nova Classics were being retired, but since they seem to have been de facto supplanted by the Joliet 6200s, I'm going back to that. That would indicate at least 15 more El Dorados for North Shore.

My guessing ends there, but with regard to Orions on contractor routes (primarily Westmont) I can't guess if they are being kept on for ElDorados to replace them, or could be a place to dump the 6 or so NABIs taken from Academy. Similarly, I am not decided whether W sending ElDorados to NW signifies that W won't get them, the effect on North, and whether S and SW come into play, although I have assumed that SW would, given the Nova Classics there.

I guess we will know in a couple of months.

[BusHunter]

According to the paperwork on both Eldorados#2769&2770,they will be heading to NW Division soon.Anybody's guess as to the routes they'll be assigned to.

Makes sense to me, NW has alot of routes that could use a smaller bus. I have seen a few sporadic sightings lately of Eldos on the #234, they have those alot on the #209, #210 and could use more on the #225/#226. They also have some of the newer routes they have obtained that could use some more of the Eldos. Like why not run Eldos on the #326 now that they have it or on the #699 if there's not the ridership for a longer bus. I don't see many riders for the #230 or #241 or #240 (barring school trips for the last two) So a few more short buses wouldn't be a bad thing would it? BTW, with 5750's news lately that academy will be acquiring 34 buses if they obtain some of there former routes back I wonder if they could end up with a few Eldo's. Wouldn't he love that!! :lol:

[Guest]

Makes sense to me, NW has alot of routes that could use a smaller bus. I have seen a few sporadic sightings lately of Eldos on the #234, they have those alot on the #209, #210 and could use more on the #225/#226. They also have some of the newer routes they have obtained that could use some more of the Eldos. Like why not run Eldos on the #326 now that they have it or on the #699 if there's not the ridership for a longer bus. I don't see many riders for the #230 or #241 or #240 (barring school trips for the last two) So a few more short buses wouldn't be a bad thing would it? BTW, with 5750's news lately that academy will be acquiring 34 buses if they obtain some of there former routes back I wonder if they could end up with a few Eldo's. Wouldn't he love that!!

LOL!!! Yeah! Keep dreamin BusHunter!! :)

[BusHunter]

LOL!!! Yeah! Keep dreamin BusHunter!!

I'll get a good laugh if it happens. Either that or whoever transfers you whatever (probably #6600's) will get the new Eldos most likely.

[rotjohns]

Makes sense to me, NW has alot of routes that could use a smaller bus. I have seen a few sporadic sightings lately of Eldos on the #234, they have those alot on the #209, #210 and could use more on the #225/#226. They also have some of the newer routes they have obtained that could use some more of the Eldos. Like why not run Eldos on the #326 now that they have it or on the #699 if there's not the ridership for a longer bus. I don't see many riders for the #230 or #241 or #240 (barring school trips for the last two) So a few more short buses wouldn't be a bad thing would it? BTW, with 5750's news lately that academy will be acquiring 34 buses if they obtain some of there former routes back I wonder if they could end up with a few Eldo's. Wouldn't he love that!!

I said before and still believe Pace is evaulating which routes have the lightest ridership amongst all routes everywhere and will send the Eldos accordingly. No matter what Pace does, the 93 Orions and the Nova Classics will be gone by the end of the summer, whether NW gets 10 Eldos or all 58 (the latter not likely). Same with NS, I'd have to believe some Eldos are heading there. Now where else it completely up in air, but I do believe some bus swapping will be happening, especially if Academy gets additonal routes which is what they are hoping for (I'm pulling for you 5750).

[Guest]

I said before and still believe Pace is evaulating which routes have the lightest ridership amongst all routes everywhere and will send the Eldos accordingly. No matter what Pace does, the 93 Orions and the Nova Classics will be gone by the end of the summer, whether NW gets 10 Eldos or all 58 (the latter not likely). Same with NS, I'd have to believe some Eldos are heading there. Now where else it completely up in air, but I do believe some bus swapping will be happening, especially if Academy gets additonal routes which is what they are hoping for (I'm pulling for you 5750).

Thanks for the vote of confidence Rotjohns! All of us at Academy are hoping for some good news as well come August even if it would end up being Lisle service. If there are any changes at Pace come this summer, Im hoping Academy will be in the thick of it. With our Orions down to two now, #2290, 93, we are due for more larger buses, Im predicting we will get more 40ft. Nabis and a few more 35ft. models. With more Eldos on the way, I wouldnt be surprised to see the older Pace vehicles make their way to us, even Orion VIs from NW. Id like to see a couple of North's 2400s sent over to Academy.

[BusHunter]

I said before and still believe Pace is evaulating which routes have the lightest ridership amongst all routes everywhere and will send the Eldos accordingly. No matter what Pace does, the 93 Orions and the Nova Classics will be gone by the end of the summer, whether NW gets 10 Eldos or all 58 (the latter not likely).

I believe these 58 buses will all be placed closer to the city versus River or Fox Valley or Joliet which are all Eldos now. NW will get some, NS will most likely get some, West won't get any because the ridership is too high there. The big question mark for me would be would South get any or North. It all depends how much ridership they have. SW I believe has too high a ridership for eldos.

[Busjack]

...SW I believe has too high a ridership for eldos.

Again, it depends on the routes. Something like 379, 381, or the 390s, definitely. 382 or 384 probably could use Eldos. I don't know about 383 or 386.

Of course the two real issues about SW are (1) how the routes are interlined at Midway, and (2) what replaces the Nova Classics?

Obviously, the far west cities have theirs, and W sending 2665 and 2666 to NW seems to indicate something. As far as S, it doesn't have anything to replace at the moment, unless one assumes Rotjohn's surmise that some 2400s could be "rested," and Eldos put on 354, 356, and Chicago Heights terminal routes. Similarly, while N has some Orions to replace (not as many as a couple of months ago), the indications are that it needs bigger buses, not smaller ones. Combining the last two sentences also comes up with a strange idea of sending more 2400s North. A very strange idea.

As I stated many times, I am not the one sending the paperwork to Pace 834.

[rotjohns]

Again, it depends on the routes. Something like 379, 381, or the 390s, definitely. 382 or 384 probably could use Eldos. I don't know about 383 or 386.

Of course the two real issues about SW are (1) how the routes are interlined at Midway, and (2) what replaces the Nova Classics?

Obviously, the far west cities have theirs, and W sending 2665 and 2666 to NW seems to indicate something. As far as S, it doesn't have anything to replace at the moment, unless one assumes Rotjohn's surmise that some 2400s could be "rested," and Eldos put on 354, 356, and Chicago Heights terminal routes. Similarly, while N has some Orions to replace (not as many as a couple of months ago), the indications are that it needs bigger buses, not smaller ones. Combining the last two sentences also comes up with a strange idea of sending more 2400s North. A very strange idea.

As I stated many times, I am not the one sending the paperwork to Pace 834.

386 is heavy during rush hour, during the day and on the weekends, it's hit or miss. Not too sure about 383 either, but 382 and 384, no way do they need 40-footers. Sometimes a Nova Classic will run a 384. Really? West won't get any Eldos, when they had their 2, one of them was running route 319 during rush hour. Now at least one 6600 runs during that time. I don't get up north very much, but if there are indications that 40-footers are needed, then you could say some 2400s could go up there (which I think would be a mistake) or when the 22 40-footers arrive, they could all end up north (which to me doesn't make sense either). I don't see why a few 2400s couldn't retire. If you look at other transit agencies, sometimes they don't wait until the 12 years is up to retire them (many cases they'll sell them to other places).

[Busjack]

... I don't see why a few 2400s couldn't retire. If you look at other transit agencies, sometimes they don't wait until the 12 years is up to retire them (many cases they'll sell them to other places).

As beat up as S buses are, I doubt anyone would buy them. However, sitting in the yard for 18 months might be a possibility.

[BusHunter]

Looks like NW got a new Eldorado. (sort of) #2630 is on the #209.

[Busjack]

Looks like NW got a new Eldorado. (sort of) #2630 is on the #209.

Like after the Feb. cutbacks (or Aurora getting 2765 and 2766).

[Busjack]

First Webwatch sighting:

[rotjohns]

First Webwatch sighting:

And that same bus is on the 234 this afternoon on Webwatch.

[Busjack]

Same route, just interlined.

[rotjohns]

Same route, just interlined.

Oh I didn't know those routes interlined. I told y'all I don't get up north all that much...lol.

[MVTArider]

I noticed American Seating Co. added photo galleries to their website, there's a couple photos of what I assume are Pace Eldoradito interiors:

http://www.americanseating.com/transportation/installations/cache/PACE_Bus_-015-1000x665.jpg

http://www.americanseating.com/transportation/installations/cache/Metro_install_2-135x99.jpg

Interesting they aren't going with the plush seats like the NABIs had. Do some of these buses get a lot of carving and graffiti on the seats like our Metropolitan Transportations Services 29' GILLIGs do?