West side proposal

[Busjack]

With the implementation, one supposes that there will be more buses at Chicago and 74th [based on the possibly shaky assumptions (1) the X9, X20, and X54 routes will be out of the same garages as the underlying routes, and (2) there won't be cutbacks elsewhere]. If I remember correctly, 8 buses were added when X55 was launched. I don't know what the case was with respect to X80. If the theory is that X54 should be served by garages closer to the end of the route, that might indicate FG and A (but, then, again X49 was served by A rather than NP and 74, with the end of the day runs only going to Western/Archer).

[trainman8119]

If the theory is that X54 should be served by garages closer to the end of the route...

Is there an advantage to having a route near a garage closer to the end of a route. I mean, if it is a cost thing, you still have to deadhead out and back at one point or another. I would think that perhaps an X54 might be served out of Forest Glen, for example, only if Chicago could not handle the extra load. However, keep in mind that Forest Glen will probably be putting out more buses in a 90 and 86 extension, so how much more could they handle ????

[Busjack]

I guess this goes back to the discussion on the Deadhead trips thread, using X49 as an example. If there is demand after 7 p.m. for a short turn between 95th and Archer, and between Berwyn and Archer, then using Archer makes sense. If not, the old arrangement of sharing 49 between 69th (now 74) and North Park would, and instead of turning back, the runs would end at 95th or Berwyn. I don't advocate deadheading from Berwyn to 74th.

The strangest situation is 9 Ashland, which used to be shared between 69 and Limits, and now runs out of 74th. Regular service runs northbound from 3:25 a.m. to 12:15 a.m., and southbound from 4:50 a.m. to 1:45 a.m. Unless there is a large number of riders from Lakeview to Englewood at 1:00 in the morning (or reverse at about 3:45 a.m.), this is a big waste. Maybe some runs starting or ending on Irving Park should be from North Park.

I really don't see the point of requiring that lines such as 8, 9, and 49 run from the same garage.

On your other point, I doubt that the 86 and 90 extensions would need more than 3 buses, total. The Garages page indicates that FG has a capacity of 310. However, it now has about 256 (128 6000s and 128 Novas 6756-6883), give or take a few.

[trainman8119]

Today's Trib notes that the Douglas, errr sorry newbies...Cermak branch will no longer be part of the O'Hare...errr Blue Line, and will be, for the time being be the SILVER LINE (I voted for the Black Line, since this is bad for UIC students and those going to O'Hare). The powers that be state this is also good for those going to O'Hare since they could transfer to the Blue Line at Clark and Lake....that would be fine, but that would entail an extra 2 bucks since those brilliant beings eliminated transfers...especially on the L routes (you don't hear about that, do you).

[Kevin]

The powers that be state this is also good for those going to O'Hare since they could transfer to the Blue Line at Clark and Lake....that would be fine, but that would entail an extra 2 bucks since those brilliant beings eliminated transfers...especially on the L routes (you don't hear about that, do you).

You can make free transfers at Clark/Lake. It's possible to access the subway from the elevated without leaving the paid area.

[Busjack]

Also, you need a transit card to get on the L (cash not accepted, but must be put in the vending machine), so the potential to transfer anywhere from the L exists, just that it now costs $2.25 unless you use the Chicago Card. I assume that the free transfer with a transit card still exists at State and Lake between the subway and L. The only new opportunity for gouging is a cash fare on the 7 bus and the need to pay again to transfer to the L.

[Busjack]

The report at the CTA Board Meeting indicated one change--X20 will go express on Washington and Warren east of Central Park, not Western.

[Chi-town Kid]

I do not like the idea of the #X20 route. Its too close to the Green line for my tastes and I think it might take away ridership. Focus on making the Green line better.

And frankly, there's hardly any residential along Lake Street, so its not terrible that the #16 is probably gone for good. Plus, the #16 requires narrow buses.

I also don't like the #90 being extended south to the Green Line. It runs into #307 Pace territory (bus overlap) and if the #307 were cut back, people would have to switch buses to travel through Oak Park.

I also think there should be one bus serving California instead of three and that the #52 should run entirely on Kedzie and the #82 should only run from 31st to Belmont on Central Park. This would streamline west side bus service.

[Chi-town Kid]

This is a new idea, but I think the #20 should be extended to the Forest Park Blue Line station and absorb the #320 Pace bus The #320 is a really short line and I see no reason not to streamline service and offer one Austin-Oak Park connector (all of the CTA buses abruptly halt before Oak Park). Easy to implement, and almost no cost to the CTA or Pace.

[Buslover88]

I also think there should be one bus serving California instead of three and that the #52 should run entirely on Kedzie and the #82 should only run from 31st to Belmont on Central Park. This would streamline west side bus service.

Um, excuse Me Chi-Town Kid, but I NEED #82 on Kimball going to Devon (it's Regular Route) and #52 SHOULD Run ONLY on Calforina...and PLEASE bring #89 as a WHOLE Kedzie Route. Don't it make you Wish we were back in '94 or '88 or even 1980?

[Busjack]

This is a new idea, but I think the #20 should be extended to the Forest Park Blue Line station and absorb the #320 Pace bus The #320 is a really short line and I see no reason not to streamline service and offer one Austin-Oak Park connector (all of the CTA buses abruptly halt before Oak Park). Easy to implement, and almost no cost to the CTA or Pace.

You would also have to consider that 320 is interlined with 315, resulting in some dead time if 320 is discontinued. Thus, the proposal would increase both CTA's and Pace's costs. Of course, this wouldn't be the first time that CTA "ran over" Pace resulting in Pace eventually cancelling the route. It will be interesting to see if 307 or 318 suffers cutbacks as a result of the 90 extension.

[Busjack]

I do not like the idea of the #X20 route. Its too close to the Green line for my tastes and I think it might take away ridership. Focus on making the Green line better.

In effect it brings back the 131, and appears necessary to partially placate Campaign for Better Transit. However, what they really want is Green line stations (Western, Damen, Morgan?) so you might be more in sync with them, but would that unduly slow the ride from points further west without picking up significant traffic?

...and the #82 should only run from 31st to Belmont on Central Park. This would streamline west side bus service.

I took this to mean that you wouldn't discontinue 82 north of Belmont, but just reroute it on Central Park south of it. While this would take care of the question of feeding the Conservatory Green Line station, what are the relative merits (street size, traffic generation) between Central Park and Kimball/Homan in that corridor?

[MetroShadow]

I do not like the idea of the #X20 route. Its too close to the Green line for my tastes and I think it might take away ridership. Focus on making the Green line better.

And frankly, there's hardly any residential along Lake Street, so its not terrible that the #16 is probably gone for good. Plus, the #16 requires narrow buses.

I also don't like the #90 being extended south to the Green Line. It runs into #307 Pace territory (bus overlap) and if the #307 were cut back, people would have to switch buses to travel through Oak Park.

I also think there should be one bus serving California instead of three and that the #52 should run entirely on Kedzie and the #82 should only run from 31st to Belmont on Central Park. This would streamline west side bus service.

X20 seems a little backwards, although if you ride the full route from Michigan to Austin, you would think you need to get there faster. Yes, you have the green line, but if people are not really willing to walk 3-4 blocks to catch a train, and if they want a more direct walk, then the X20 works.

I actually don't mind the 90 being extended, but i wouldn't be suprised if it affects 305/307/318 service at all. Keep in mind, that you have only 2-3 miles of service overlapping, which isn't already that major, but these buses only run every 20-30 minutes (maybe 15 on rush hours). If you live in Oak Park, and would need to get to the HIP, or even the airport, this would be a better connection for you instead of going all the way to Austin, then going back north. The only concern I have is service between Lawrence and Irving Park, where bus bunching becomes the norm and several buses would have to turn off at Belmont, Diversey, et. al.

and yes, it would make a hell of alot more sense if the Kedzie/California corridor would be more streamlined, but it would take a lot of work and a lot of focus to figure out what exactly to do.

We'll see what happens in a month though.

[MetroShadow]

This is a new idea, but I think the #20 should be extended to the Forest Park Blue Line station and absorb the #320 Pace bus The #320 is a really short line and I see no reason not to streamline service and offer one Austin-Oak Park connector (all of the CTA buses abruptly halt before Oak Park). Easy to implement, and almost no cost to the CTA or Pace.

This wouldn't work since as mentioned before, 320 is thru-routed with 315 at Madison/Austin. That's a common practice with Pace which is to save money(i.e. 209/234 out of northwest). The idea of extending it to the Blue Line would make sense since you would be taking one less pace route off the roster, but that adds time and labor onto the CTA, which is already going through the same problem.

[Chi-town Kid]

In effect it brings back the 131, and appears necessary to partially placate Campaign for Better Transit. However, what they really want is Green line stations (Western, Damen, Morgan?) so you might be more in sync with them, but would that unduly slow the ride from points further west without picking up significant traffic?I took this to mean that you wouldn't discontinue 82 north of Belmont, but just reroute it on Central Park south of it. While this would take care of the question of feeding the Conservatory Green Line station, what are the relative merits (street size, traffic generation) between Central Park and Kimball/Homan in that corridor?

Kind of. The #52 would run entirely on Kedzie up until Foster or so and then switch over to Kimball because Kedzie does not go through. The #82 would not go north of Belmont. Basically, the same area would be covered as it is now, just more thoroughly. The #89 should NOT be brought back as it would run too close to the #82 in the #82's current formation.

Central Park is actually a reasonably wide street between 31st and Belmont, wider than Kimball is.

Maybe the way to do it would run the #82 the way I suggested and have the #52 switch from Kedzie to Kimball north of Belmont. Central Park is too narrow to have buses north of Belmont anyway.

[Chi-town Kid]

Oh yeah, I didn't know about the #315-#320 route arrangement. Keep it as is.

[Buslover88]

Hello? What about a CALFORINA Bus?!!?? I NEED one if that Planned was to go in effect!

[Busjack]

Kind of. The #52 would run entirely on Kedzie up until Foster or so and then switch over to Kimball because Kedzie does not go through. The #82 would not go north of Belmont. Basically, the same area would be covered as it is now, just more thoroughly.  ... Maybe the way to do it would run the #82 the way I suggested and have the #52 switch from Kedzie to Kimball north of Belmont. Central Park is too narrow to have buses north of Belmont anyway.

A lot of this was discussed in the thread on Rant on Proposed N Kedzie Bus. The question is how you would serve the main traffic generators, including Von Stueben and Roosevelt High Schools? I suppose North Side Prep and the schools in the Garfield Park area are accommodated either way. Of course, we have someone on another thread complaining about serving fare paying school riders.

[RIPTA42]

The question is how you would serve the main traffic generators, including Von Stueben and Roosevelt High Schools?

School trippers could run on Kimball instead of Kedzie between Wilson and Foster.

[Busjack]

CTA has a very Pink on this. ("Think Pink," "Pink Link," etc.). I wonder about the need for the Polish version (except maybe for the changes to 86, 90, and 91).

[MetroShadow]

The revised bus stops are outside now, particularly on 37, 38, 86, and 91.

[Busjack]

The only flaw I see in the bus changes is that the 90 extension south of Grand ave is that it  duplicates Pace service on that part of the route. Would that be a good move in light of budget constraints (now if there were transfers.....).

According to the RTA out of CTA-Pace dispute article (mentioned on the home page), our surmises are correct. Section 2.12a of the RTA Act, requires that the RTA mediate these disputes. While my first reaction is that the RTA has abdicated its statutory authority, and what is new about that, "mediate" just means bring the parties together, not impose a solution on them, so maybe RTA has done its job but in a very ineffective manner! Let the spokespersons battle it out, while the system falls into further financial distress. I can't see requiring the taxpayers to bail this mess out.:(

[Busjack]

Coming back here, it appears from today's board meeting Press Release that the CTA has retweaked this project. The 127 bus and the Blue Line Douglas trains will be discontinued. I wonder if the community organization in Little Village that made the stink about retaining the 54th-O'Hare train is still around to complain now.

Also, the 38 Ogden-Taylor won't go very far down Ogden, ending at California.

Also, the President's Report indicates that the X20 will run local west of Garfield Park (page 34).

[CircleSeven]

Coming back here, it appears from today's board meeting Press Release that the CTA has retweaked this project. The 127 bus and the Blue Line Douglas trains will be discontinued. I wonder if the community organization in Little Village that made the stink about retaining the 54th-O'Hare train is still around to complain now.

Also, the 38 Ogden-Taylor won't go very far down Ogden, ending at California.

I saw this earlier tonight. I am thrilled that they are dropping the #127. There weren't any need for that route to continue. I think I stated this before on this board but I usually see a #127 layover at Roosevelt & Ogden heading back eastbound to the Train Station. And even if they're late they will intentionally wait for the #12 to make that left turn from Damen to Roosevelt and pick-up every passenger at every stop and have standard-loaded bus as the 127 drives behind the 12 and takes it's sweet time, hardly picking up anyone. At least they are adding buses on the 12. Now I hope in the future a night-owl would be re-instated but not from State & Washington but from Indiana to Kedzie. This could cause the N62 to avoid going via Halsted & Roosevelt.

Now for the Blue Line, I really think that many people who take the Douglas Branch train are taking the Pink Line way more then the Blue Line rush hour trips. Now I'm not going to doubt they would be some complaints about the elimination of the Blue Line Douglas Branch but I have thought in my mind that those days to continue the route would be numbered. I'm shocked it had to be two years before hearing the fate.

Speaking of which, they will still have #7 Harrison stopping at the Polk station but I'm puzzled that this route extending to 10pm. This means the #126 won't be heading towards Harrison Street between Ashland & Damen until after 10pm Weeknights to serve the Hospital. Well see how this goes.

Okay, so I saw the press release about the X20 Express is adding additional stops west of Central Park Blvd. But on the President's Report, It states on page 34 that it would make all local stops west of CP. Now I was thinking they could add some stops on Keeler, Lavergne, Long & Menard but adding all of the stops wouldn't feel 'express'.

And finally the lovely #38. It is nice to see that Taylor and 'what's left' of Ogden they'll be covering will be back on Midday service for the first time in over a decade and some change. Come to think of it, the current routing does parallel the Pink Line from Kedzie & Pulaski. I wonder what they would do with that bus turnaround at the Cullerton & Pulaski Station. They might use it for a 53 Pulaski or a 21 Cermak short turn. And finally, it will be very interesting to see how they will turn those buses around at California & Ogden. I'm thinking they might layover at California & Ogden. Then turn around via 16th, Washtenaw and turn right back to Ogden to go northbound. Since they will be covering about a mile on Ogden Avenue, they should change the route to the #38 Taylor-Canal.

First I thought March 23rd would be a historical moment for the CTA. Now April with the end of the Blue Line Douglas branch route and the Summer Pick with these new set of bus changes. Let see how all of this plays out these next several weeks. This will be very interesting!!!

[jajuan]

Speaking of which, they will still have #7 Harrison stopping at the Polk station but I'm puzzled that this route extending to 10pm. This means the #126 won't be heading towards Harrison Street between Ashland & Damen until after 10pm Weeknights to serve the Hospital. Well see how this goes.

Well actually before the 97/98 cuts to the 7, the 126 County Hospital weeknight trips started with the trips that operated passed the area at 9pm. That basically translated to the first westbound Hospital trip leaving downtown at 8:45 and the first eastbound trip leaving Austin at 8:30. The revision after the BoozAllen cuts only translated to one or two earlier trips through what is now the Medical District area because the deadhead trips leaving the eastern end of the 7 currently end at about 8pm and there are still eastbound 7 buses passing until shortly before 8pm or so. I'm guessing they might just scale the 126 trips back to the pre-BoozAllen start times.

And finally the lovely #38. It is nice to see that Taylor and 'what's left' of Ogden they'll be covering will be back on Midday service for the first time in over a decade and some change. Come to think of it, the current routing does parallel the Pink Line from Kedzie & Pulaski. I wonder what they would do with that bus turnaround at the Cullerton & Pulaski Station. They might use it for a 53 Pulaski or a 21 Cermak short turn. And finally, it will be very interesting to see how they will turn those buses around at California & Ogden. I'm thinking they might layover at California & Ogden. Then turn around via 16th, Washtenaw and turn right back to Ogden to go northbound. Since they will be covering about a mile on Ogden Avenue, they should change the route to the #38 Taylor-Canal.

First I thought March 23rd would be a historical moment for the CTA. Now April with the end of the Blue Line Douglas branch route and the Summer Pick with these new set of bus changes. Let see how all of this plays out these next several weeks. This will be very interesting!!!

I agree that it should be interesting to see how they will terminate the 38 at Ogden and California effectively as well as how the Douglas Branch changes and other bus changes will work themselves out.

Also does anyone have any idea what the purpose is behind the down Hubbard and Aberdeen shown on the 65 Grand route map in the President's report? I get the routing at Grand/Latrobe and through Cambell, Hubbard, Western near the Metra station.