Layoffs & Service Cuts: Are They REALLY Necessary?

[rotjohns]

I am inclined to agree with railbus63 on this. Nobody wants service cuts, nobody wants fare hikes, nobody wants property tax increases in order to pay for CTA's problems. But not doing anything now will just make for a bigger doomsday next year, then a bigger one after that. We say every year that a doomsday cant happen because it'll be the most horrible thing ever, so that come up with "play" money to extend it only to make it a bigger problem the next year. Maybe if the cuts take place, government from IL and National will see all the trouble it's gonna create and find a way to come up with real money to get the CTA in line. Now what I do think, and maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I do think that the cuts won't last through the entire year. I do think eventually the express routes will be back as well as the earlier start/late end times because once all this takes place and the public outcry is too much to bear, CTA is gonna ask for help. I don't have proof that will happen, it's just a feeling I have. It's probably gonna take new administration, both IL and Chicago, for it to happen though.

[cta_44499_FG]

I am inclined to agree with railbus63 on this. Nobody wants service cuts, nobody wants fare hikes, nobody wants property tax increases in order to pay for CTA's problems. But not doing anything now will just make for a bigger doomsday next year, then a bigger one after that. We say every year that a doomsday cant happen because it'll be the most horrible thing ever, so that come up with "play" money to extend it only to make it a bigger problem the next year. Maybe if the cuts take place, government from IL and National will see all the trouble it's gonna create and find a way to come up with real money to get the CTA in line. Now what I do think, and maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I do think that the cuts won't last through the entire year. I do think eventually the express routes will be back as well as the earlier start/late end times because once all this takes place and the public outcry is too much to bear, CTA is gonna ask for help. I don't have proof that will happen, it's just a feeling I have. It's probably gonna take new administration, both IL and Chicago, for it to happen though.

Right now I know that the arbitrator is scheduled to rule on the layoff issue today, which if ruled in the unions favor would delay things another 60 days. That is all I will say on that matter. If it comes down to that I hope they will use the time to come up with something workable to prevent it period. Until it comes to news, nothing more is really being told or discussed as part of the arbitration process...this is my understanding.

[cta_44499_FG]

So, Jefferson has to say what the "exactly" $91 million "need to avert the service cuts" he offered is. If it is the old story about CTA having exceeded 3% exempts, or the 20 new supervisors in each garage, that is not going to add up to $91 million.

Also, any statement that the Mayor should get involved is hokum, because Jefferson can't be too dumb to believe that Rodriguez and Peterson are independent agents and are not carrying out the orders the Mayor publicly gave them.

Push back raises to 2011 (ie. delay them) and allow members to take more requested days off. CTA turned this down saying they wanted them "mandatory". Regardless of what they're called, they were still offered "days off".

Those two are nothing more than puppets, that's it. CTA is basically balking their way or the highway, layoff and cut service and be done with it. I don't think they're interested in delaying or fixing anything, but are playing the part so that the blame falls on the union and not them in the public eye. Of course, this is all opinion, and I'm sure others have theirs.

[Busjack]

Right now I know that the arbitrator is scheduled to rule on the layoff issue today, which if ruled in the unions favor would delay things another 60 days. That is all I will say on that matter....

I guess then your prior statement "rules for CTA" was in error.

[Busjack]

Push back raises to 2011 (ie. delay them) and allow members to take more requested days off. CTA turned this down saying they wanted them "mandatory". Regardless of what they're called, they were still offered "days off".

I could accept that, but, essentially Jefferson has to go before the press and explain that in a rational manner. It doesn't seem credible for Jefferson to be reported as not willing to give back anything, but then saying, once the Mayor called his bluff, in effect, "I was willing to give Rodriguez what he asked, but he got hung up on the language." Of course, the two could be consistent if Jefferson interpreted that holding out for deleting "mandatory" meant that some workers could take some time off, but most of them won't. In that case, the CTA wouldn't have achieved the savings needed. In any event, Rodriguez said that withholding the 3.5% raise would only yield $30M and only be a start to reversing the service cuts; not enough to reinstate the X routes.

So, there seem to be too many contradictions for my taste. But, I did leave it open for him to explain it to the media.

[cta_44499_FG]

I guess then your prior statement "rules for CTA" was in error.

It was and has been corrected.

I want them to rule for the union and use to extra time to prevent all layoffs...not stick it to the part-timers. It's bad enough they feel short-changed.

[New Flyer]

I urge all of you to tune into Newsradio 78 tomm at 9:30am and pm for At Issue. Rodriguez will be grilled on the air about the service cuts it should be intresting.

[Busjack]

I urge all of you to tune into Newsradio 78 tomm at 9:30am and pm for At Issue. Rodriguez will be grilled on the air about the service cuts it should be intresting.

It might be, but rest assured that since targets wised up to 60 Minutes' brand of ambush journalism, they have their PR flacks prepping them. Don't expect Rodriguez to say anything that hasn't been vetted by the Mayor's Press Office.

[Busjack]

Well, according to the Sun-Times, Rodriguez said that he is willing to take the offer that Jefferson never put on the table, but apparently relayed to the membership. It sounds like Jefferson might have backed himself into a corner.

[sw4400]

If anything comes of this, could this mean that Archer Garage and the 6000-Series Flxibles may be kept around after Feb. 7, or will they still be gone?

[jajuan]

If anything comes of this, could this mean that Archer Garage and the 6000-Series Flxibles may be kept around after Feb. 7, or will they still be gone?

From the grandstanding going on by the CTA heads and union heads, I wouldn't get my hopes up yet, especially from what CTA workers have been saying about management wanting to tank Archer regardless. And who suffers because of it? Workers, whether union or nonunion, and the riders. From how it appears to me, the union chief is trying to shame the CTA and just get media attention and CTA management is looking for a scapegoat if cuts happen. In the meantime nothing has been getting solved.

[Busjack]

If anything comes of this, could this mean that Archer Garage and the 6000-Series Flxibles may be kept around after Feb. 7, or will they still be gone?

I don't know about this, but we know that the capital bill money for the 140 DE60LFs originally slated to replace some 6000s still hasn't materialized. I see from the paper that Quinn is now promising some capital bill money for High Speed Rail to Iowa, but if that money isn't available for the 140 buses or the 80 Metra Electric cars, I don't see how it is available for that, either.

... From how it appears to me, the union chief is trying to shame the CTA and just get media attention and CTA management is looking for a scapegoat if cuts happen.

I think it is the opposite. Once Daley said the fooling around is over, all the sudden the union leader had his bluff called. sw's link to Channel 5 essentially had the Sun-Times story, but added that Gannon was putting on pressure to settle. Furthermore, it would have been clear to both the riders and the PTOs that up till then, Jefferson had been intransigent.

Those who would be laid off, which seem to be a majority of the drivers in this forum, would undoubtedly prefer some sort of settlement over unemployment. However, I wonder how the union leadership would face the hotheads, one of which was on this board, and I assume was under other names on other boards.

Finally, I know that Jefferson doesn't answer to me, but it was telling to me that all of the sudden he wasn't available for comment to the Sun-Times.

[busfan]

Monday's Union Meeting Jefferson claimed he made this offer to CTA. "10 Furlow days for non-bus operator 241 positions, hold off on the 2011 raise till 2012", bring back the foreman. The forman would be making about $10 - 20,000 a year less than the managers. CTA refused. Thay also wanted concessions to the health care, and Pension. (How they would be allowed to go around state law and not contribute to the pension plan for a while I dont know). CTA does not want to give up managment. They are very big on having a lot of managers. CTA is like many companys out there ... more managers, less workers. CTA has been wanting to get rid of the Mechanics on their buses for a very long time. That is their goal. Its not about money from Sprinfield, or more funding. Its about sub-contracting out their job. How much did CTA spend last year and how much are they spending this year on contracting out 241 Bus Mechanics work ? 10 Years ago they had about 800 Mechanics. Now they have about 450. All work goes out to Truck & Bus and to vendors. In 5 to 10 years their goal is to get the number down to 100 mechanics and contract out the rest. If anyone is paying attention, evertime CTA says if they get concessions from the Unions, (241 & 308 mainly)it will help keep more buses on the street depending on the amount of concessions. They did not once say it would avoid all the layoffs. When Rodriguez got in 10 months ago there was an article in a paper with his comments about how "he was gonna run CTA like he did the airport. "Eliminate the lucrative employee pensions, restructure, and dowsize as much as possible". Dailey is staying out of it and is not getting involved because when Dailey appointed Rodriguez, he told him to do what he is doing now. There is no need for Dailey to tell him anything now because Dailey put him in, gave him his mission to screw everyone so there is no need for Dailey to get involved any furthur. They have been wanting to close Archer Garage for over 10 years now. It's about getting the number of union members down so the low the Union gets busted. Thats the Dailey way of doing buisness !

[Busjack]

If that is Jefferson's real position, instead of the "we offered the CTA what it wanted and Rodriguez refused," one can understand why he said nothing more publicly, and the press has had nothing more on it since the weekend. Also, note that the reference was to deferring the 2011 pay hike, not 2010, thus not saving anything in 2010. Thus, I predict that barring something really unforeseen, the layoffs and service cuts happen on schedule.

BTW, with regard to the 20 managers at each garage argument, I assume that with Archer closing, 20 get bumped back to the ranks.

[greenstreet]

Monday's Union Meeting Jefferson claimed he made this offer to CTA. "10 Furlow days for non-bus operator 241 positions, hold off on the 2011 raise till 2012", bring back the foreman.

So, union-busting rhetoric aside, you're reporting that what Jefferson told his members is a lot different than what he told the media he offered as a concession.

10 furlough days for non-operator members of 241 is a lot different that the blanket "ten furlough days" he claimed he offered and would result in significantly less savings. According to you, there are less than 500 local 241 mechanics. There are another 100-200 241 members in offices and field locations (who make WAY less than the operators' average $28 a hour). So he offered that about 10% of his membership would take the big hit for the team?

Next he offered to hold off the 2011 raise until to 2012? That IS a significant concession, but it's not consistent with what he told the press he offered in his phantom negotiations. He claimed in the news reports that he also offered to give up the 3.5% increase this year (2010) so that the CTA could realize some savings now --when they need it.

Sorry, I don't buy the Monday night meeting version any more than I believe what he fed the media over the weekend. Is one version more accurate .. or are they both full of hot air?

[Busjack]

10 furlough days for non-operator members of 241 is a lot different that the blanket "ten furlough days" he claimed he offered and would result in significantly less savings. ...

I'll make one defense of the above, which is that no one has figured out how to operate a bus with less than one driver. Hence, the furloughs would not have restored service, but it would have shown that the union members had some concern about the 1,100 of their* "brethren," who will be laid off, by sharing the work.

However, I agree with the rest of what you said.

__________

*I just caught and fixed a syntax error common on this board.

[greenstreet]

BTW, with regard to the 20 managers at each garage argument, I assume that with Archer closing, 20 get bumped back to the ranks.

Putting aside the repeated inaccuracy of busfan's manager count, there are several managers on the layoff list as a result of the garage closing. A few will get vacant positions at other garages, but the others will be laid off. (They lost their union seniority when they accepted the additional responsibilities and were promoted to managers.)

[greenstreet]

I'll make one defense of the above, which is that no one has figured out how to operate a bus with less than one driver. Hence, the furloughs would not have restored service, but it would have shown that the union members had some concern about the 1,100 of their* "brethren," who will be laid off, by sharing the work.

You're absolutely correct - which is why it seemed so illogical that 241 originally announced they had offered across the board furlough days as a concession. If your #20 Madison bus operator is on a furlough day, then the CTA would have had to bring in someone else -- from extra board or on overtime to fill his runs. Negligible, if any, cost savings.

[busfan]

Putting aside the repeated inaccuracy of busfan's manager count, there are several managers on the layoff list as a result of the garage closing. A few will get vacant positions at other garages, but the others will be laid off. (They lost their union seniority when they accepted the additional responsibilities and were promoted to managers.)

The last time I posted about no managers getting layoff notices was around last november. At that time you said managers got layoff notices and I was wrong. They were the last to receive layoff notices and they got them a few weeks after I posted that comment. I asked you to dis-prove me and you never could so you stopped posting on that thread. Do you actually work for CTA ? Do you work in Maintenance ? And how much time do you have?

Here's the numbers for you....

They had 52 garage foremen. They eliminated the formen and now have

96 managers. 12 managers got layoff notices

[ajcalcote]

I have another idea... If you don't like the service cuts, then I suggest moving to such other parts of the United States as Atlanta, Miami, Houston, or Los Angeles, and there might be job opportunities at their respective transit agencies.

[jacksone44]

Your union leader, Darrell Jefferson states the following:

"We have prided ourselves in having world-class transit and come Sunday, world-class transit in the city of Chicago will no longer exist."

I have no clue what made him think this is remotely true. I think he's a joke.

[Busjack]

Chicago Breaking News reports that the arbitrator just denied the grievance.

What was somewhat telling was:

The union's leaders expressed disappointment over the arbitrator's decision, and they said in a statement that they "always understood, unfortunately, that our members would be laid off.''

It looks like the time for bluster is over. Certainly there was no substance to the request to hold off and ask for more funding.

[busfan]

I knew that was a waste of time since they asked that arbitrator to decide that last week. The Unions arguement was that in the contract it states that part-timers will aquire no seniority. So the Unions case was that since they have no seniority, they have to be layed off 1st cause the contract states layoffs shall go acording to seniority. IT DOES NOT. The layoff clause in 241's contract on page 70 says "No full time permanent employee who on January 1st 2000 had 1 or more years of continuos service shall be layed off. When employees are called back to work they shall be called back according to seniority". I kept telling people in the union they are wasting time and they wont win that. Then they picked Edwin Benn as the arbitrator. He is the same guy that decided our current contract! Why would they choose a guy who stuck it to us in the 1st place! Older contracts we had had a sentance in the layoff protection clause that clearly said "no full time employee can be layed off until all part time employees are layed off". Its not in there no more thanks to the Union over looking the minor things they always do when we get a contract.

[busfan]

greenstreet,

You got quiet ?

Here a little math for you I would like for you to disbute also.

CTA claims there are 11,000 employees at CTA.

90% are union employees

That means 1100 are non-union employees

Cta says their non-union workers are giving concessions and that will help them save $32,000,000 this year.

Now... $32,000,000 divided by 1100 workers is $29,090 per person.

How does freezing wages and taking 18 furlow days come out to a savings of $29,090 per non-union employee ?

The numbers just dont add up as usual with CTA. They make the public believe they have done everything possible to save money. All they asked was for furlow days for their managers. In my old post I posted how they wanted everything from the union members. Concessions to the health care, pension, furlow days, pay cuts....

[trainman8119]

Unfortunately, most unions will stick it to you. While one wouldn't have the bulk of the benefits a union member has, the union leadership will always find a way to do something for the top 3% and say the hell with the rest of the membership. Sounds like what happened here. Someone gave in firstly, letting the CTA hire part timers, then second, not following through to protect those getting their full benefits. Yup, looks like the union did a bang up job on protecting you guys !!!! Sometimes I don't know who screws you worse, the company or the union...they usually both do a good job of it.