New Flyer 30 Foot Not Holding up well

[Archon]

The 30 Foot New flyer's at MCTS are not holding up very well. All the 4200 were Retired early and now 7 of the 4500's are OOS and they only 8 years old.

[Nabinut]

Are those 30 footers "Canadian Style" (Built to handle the cold)?

[TMC-RTS-08]

Dayton RTA retired their 2001 D30LFs earlier this year.

[rotjohns]

Dayton RTA retired their 2001 D30LFs earlier this year.

Doesn't sound like 30-footers are New Flyer's strong areas. Might wanna look into El Dorados.

[rmadisonwi]

But really, how much of that is due to equipment reliability, and how much is due to the fact that MCTS cut nearly all the routes where ridership was low enough to use 30-foot buses?

[qwantae]

Dayton RTA retired their 2001 D30LFs earlier this year.

Wow, must be a very issue on any 30 foot New Flyers. That's odd because Dayton RTA just recently retired their 1997 Nova RTSes (35 Foot) except little few still remaining until Trolley Route construction completes.

[Busjack]

But really, how much of that is due to equipment reliability, and how much is due to the fact that MCTS cut nearly all the routes where ridership was low enough to use 30-foot buses?

Might be a point. CTA demonstrated that it really didn't need much more than 20 Optimas, but bought 45 and is underutilizing them.

Doesn't sound like 30-footers are New Flyer's strong areas. Might wanna look into El Dorados.

Again, that might be questionable, in that the Pace Transmarks barely lasted through their FTA 10 year lives, and some were pulled in DuPage County for paratransit vehicles. The EZ Riders seem to be holding up better.

[MVTArider]

• The 2003 Green Bay Metro D30LF I rode on seemed to be holding up pretty well, granted that was just one ride so I can't speak for the whole GBM D30LF fleet. There were also no maintenance issues noted in the transportation board minutes I read, however it was noted that 35 footers were preferred for future purchases because they come with a rear door.
  
  
• Winnipeg Transit has not had any major issues with their D30LFs, even though theirs are 1996 and 2001 units. However I believe quite a few of theirs have been rebuilt, as is the case with most Winnipeg Transit buses of that age.
  
• Eau Claire, WI is operating 1997 D30LFs which seem to run well from my observations:
  
  

Regarding the MCTS units, 4200-4208 are 1998 units (correct?). Therefore they would probably be retired by many agencies as they're at the end of the FTA minimum life expectancy, especially if they are no longer needed for revenue service.

Seriousness aside, if MCTS doesn't want their 2002 D30LF fleet anymore send them to us, they would be nicer than the cutaways we have now :wub:

[Busjack]

Probably related to this topic is a New Flyer release that they are teaming up with Alexander Dennis for a midibus, apparently the Enviro200.

Note, though, that NF says that this is only a 10 year bus.

And, as MVTA might have indicated, there may be a war over "my 30 foot bus is longer than your 30 foot bus."*

______

*According to Excel, 8.9 m converts to 29.19 ft.

[sw4400]

May as well get used to the D30LF model, because come 2018 this bus model will probably be replacing the Optimas. I doubt the CTA will order new Optimas at that time with NABI running that company now.

[flossman]

The 30 Foot New flyer's at MCTS are not holding up very well. All the 4200 were Retired early and now 7 of the 4500's are OOS and they only 8 years old.

No kidding. Last D30LF I rode (on the 28) sounded like it was going to rattle itself apart at any moment, and I feel sorry for the drivers every time I see one of them has to drive one on the 64.

We only had 15 of the 4500s to start with, didn't we? Or was I just thinking of how many were last in service?

[See Tea Eh]

May as well get used to the D30LF model, because come 2018 this bus model will probably be replacing the Optimas. I doubt the CTA will order new Optimas at that time with NABI running that company now.

Actually, the D30LF is no longer in production. If you go by what New Flyer lists on its product offerings page, they only offer the LFR in 40- and 60-foot lengths, and the Xcelsior in 35-, 40-, and 60-foot lengths.

I noticed that a few weeks ago, then a few days ago I came across news that Busjack referenced that New Flyer is partnering with Dennis to build a "midi" bus. So, putting two and two together, I don't think you'll see any more standard New Flyer bus offerings at the 30-foot size level.

No kidding. Last D30LF I rode (on the 28) sounded like it was going to rattle itself apart at any moment, and I feel sorry for the drivers every time I see one of them has to drive one on the 64.

We only had 15 of the 4500s to start with, didn't we? Or was I just thinking of how many were last in service?

I think MCTS had 20 4500s, plus 9 of the 4200s.

[Busjack]

May as well get used to the D30LF model, because come 2018 this bus model will probably be replacing the Optimas. I doubt the CTA will order new Optimas at that time with NABI running that company now.

The other issue is that CTA was not so interested in a 30 foot bus as a 96" wide bus, which the 4900 RTSs and 4915 ex Pace Orion Is were. They had to settle for a 99" wide Optima.

Maybe by coincidence, the spec sheet for the Enviro 2000 says that the width is 2444mm, which comes out to 96".

The other issue is since CTA really hasn't figured out how to use a midi-bus, has various routes interlined, and uses regular buses on 171, 172 on an off and on basis, whether CTA would really be interested in replacing the Optimas with a midibus, especially one with a 10 instead of 12 year lifespan.

[flossman]

Seriousness aside, if MCTS doesn't want their 2002 D30LF fleet anymore send them to us, they would be nicer than the cutaways we have now

I think you'd have better luck sawing 10 feet out of a D40LF. ;)

[mkebusfan88]

I think the problem with the MCTS 30 footers were they weren't build to handle all day runs up and down high speed roads like Highway 100 (Route 28) and Layton Avenue (Route 55) for example where they were seen the most. It really wears and tears these buses that aren't meant for that quickly. 30 footers are more for smaller cities and less runs

[jajuan]

The other issue is that CTA was not so interested in a 30 foot bus as a 96" wide bus, which the 4900 RTSs and 4915 ex Pace Orion Is were. They had to settle for a 99" wide Optima.

Maybe by coincidence, the spec sheet for the Enviro 2000 says that the width is 2444mm, which comes out to 96".

The other issue is since CTA really hasn't figured out how to use a midi-bus, has various routes interlined, and uses regular buses on 171, 172 on an off and on basis, whether CTA would really be interested in replacing the Optimas with a midibus, especially one with a 10 instead of 12 year lifespan.

From the recent posts of the news that CTA wants to phase out the Optimas along with doing the Nova retirements when they get their 425 combination 40 foot standard and artic order going from whomever gets that contract, they won't be looking into any smaller size buses anymore any time soon.