Route 895

[rotjohns]

Pace has uploaded a Youtube video talking about the new route 895 from 95th across from Chicago Ridge Mall going to Rosemont and Schaumburg scheduled to begin November 21st. The info I found on it stated its not using Pace's 30 or 40 foot buses. What buses are they gonna use?

[Busjack]

Looks like you and twy find the YouTube before you find the official announcement.

The route description is here, and indicates that the operator is Coach USA. Thus, one would think that the buses now on 755/855, except for all the questions about what entity is Coach USA raised by art and seemingly unanswered.

Also, I'm surprised with all the hype about 855, this one was posted almost unnoticed.

Update: The YouTube is here.

Based on that, I don't see how this gets any ridership, in that the stop is on the street outside the Mall and no inference is made that the Mall lot is available as as Park and Ride. Do they think that 895 is going to fill up with transfers from 381? At least 889, which failed, served the established transit centers and park and rides.

Also, I don't see why the inbound Schaumburg portion of the YouTube was produced in the nausea inducing turn by turn style that it was. It should have only showed where the posted stops were, without the intermediate routing.

At least the Schaumburg flex makes sense in that Pace service to the outlying office parks is problematic.

But that is .... if this attracts any riders. I'm not betting, for the reason stated above.

[twyztdmynd]

But that is .... if this attracts any riders. I'm not betting, for the reason stated above.

Looks almost like a band-aid for old Sub Route 1012

(ROT... ya beat me to it !!)

[Busjack]

Looks almost like a band-aid for old Sub Route 1012

(ROT... ya beat me to it !!)

In that both go or went from 95th, yes. In fact, that made me think "why not from the Red Line," except, of course that one going from there to Rosemont can use CTA.

The Schaumburg Flex is of course different than just going to Sears/Prairie Stone. On the other hand, Sears provided parking for the subscription routes at its stores, including the closed ones (such as 79th and Kenwood), while, as I indicated, parking is not offered here.

The Schaumburg Flex also rang the bell in my mind whether people would get on at Rosemont or the NWTC just because this might do a slightly better job than the 606. Anything is possible, but I am not convinced.

Update: The video was not on the Pace site when I last looked, but is there now.

[twyztdmynd]

The 1012 was Colonial's #1 Sub Route. It picked up a majority at Chicago Ridge. I'm sure word is out that Rosemont is a suitable point to transfer to 610... Satisfying the old 1012 crowd.

[MetroShadow]

I want to make a case for a Reverse 600 out of Rosemont (there are 4 trips to and from there...) and if they aren't using the larger buses, you have paratransits.

[Busjack]

I want to make a case for a Reverse 600 out of Rosemont (there are 4 trips to and from there...) and if they aren't using the larger buses, you have paratransits.

If you look back at the Pace Minutes as reflected in this post, that came up a couple of months ago with regard to a joint CMAQ application with the Tollway.

Update: To the extent that this bus picks up in Rosemont it would serve that purpose, which is why I suppose you posted this here.

[BusHunter]

In that both go or went from 95th, yes. In fact, that made me think "why not from the Red Line," except, of course that one going from there to Rosemont can use CTA.

The Schaumburg Flex is of course different than just going to Sears/Prairie Stone. On the other hand, Sears provided parking for the subscription routes at its stores, including the closed ones (such as 79th and Kenwood), while, as I indicated, parking is not offered here.

The Schaumburg Flex also rang the bell in my mind whether people would get on at Rosemont or the NWTC just because this might do a slightly better job than the 606. Anything is possible, but I am not convinced.

Update: The video was not on the Pace site when I last looked, but is there now.

It sounds like a good route until you see the particulars. Rush only, peak only service, half the service runs direct from Chicago Ridge to NWTC. I would say they'd be hanging on the mirrors at Rosemont if people learned about it. But the fact that it does the exact same thing as a #600, with 20 minute frequency, at the same time in that segment kills it. I don't know how good the ridership is nw of the NWTC, but if #696 is any indication, not very. The Chicago Ridge segment I don't see drawing anything. Probably would have been better making stops at a transit hub like Oakbrook Center or even Ford City. They need to think of it as an "L" of the suburbs making stops to the feeders from the main line. Pace does need an express non stop service from NWTC to Rosemont serving Woodfield mall running in the #606 timeframe. If you look at it 1/2 to 3/4 of the #606 ridership rides Woodfield to Rosemont. That would be an instant success.

[Busjack]

... But the fact that it does the exact same thing as a #600, with 20 minute frequency, at the same time in that segment kills it....

That doesn't seem to be the case, as 600 is to Rosemont in the a.m., Schaumburg in the p.m., 895 is reverse.

It isn't clear to me whether the rationale is that 600 is the feeder for people who live in Schaumburg and commute into the city, and 606 is the bus for people who work in the NW suburbs, or 600 is just an express trip to get the 606s back (the two are interlined).

The duplication would occur if the proposal I mentioned above were implemented. Maybe Pace is concerned about duplication only if CMAQ doesn't pay for it.

On the rest of the stuff, especially 696 not being that successful and 699 being canceled, this looks slightly different to me in that it is serving targeted businesses (as opposed to 655, which assumed transfers at the NWTC; we discussed this with the Minnesota people). However, given that the Schaumburg area is served by a melange of fixed routes, the trolley, and dial a ride, maybe someone should actually do a restructuring survey and see what Schaumburg really needs.

BTW: I'm still mystified that this first turned up on YouTube, without any marketing outreach by Pace, compared to BOS. Are our perceptions correct, or is this like 655/889, a way to spend CMAQ money for a couple of months? Does anyone have the inside poop?

[BusHunter]

That doesn't seem to be the case, as 600 is to Rosemont in the a.m., Schaumburg in the p.m., 895 is reverse.

It isn't clear to me whether the rationale is that 600 is the feeder for people who live in Schaumburg and commute into the city, and 606 is the bus for people who work in the NW suburbs, or 600 is just an express trip to get the 606s back (the two are interlined).

The duplication would occur if the proposal I mentioned above were implemented. Maybe Pace is concerned about duplication only if CMAQ doesn't pay for it.

On the rest of the stuff, especially 696 not being that successful and 699 being canceled, this looks slightly different to me in that it is serving targeted businesses (as opposed to 655, which assumed transfers at the NWTC; we discussed this with the Minnesota people). However, given that the Schaumburg area is served by a melange of fixed routes, the trolley, and dial a ride, maybe someone should actually do a restructuring survey and see what Schaumburg really needs.

BTW: I'm still mystified that this first turned up on YouTube, without any marketing outreach by Pace, compared to BOS. Are our perceptions correct, or is this like 655/889, a way to spend CMAQ money for a couple of months? Does anyone have the inside poop?

I see that (first sentence) now that you mentioned it. The PM might not work unless there is a high volume of people NW of the NWTC who ride. The AM maybe a little better, being able to tap into the high volume stream of Rosemont Blue Line. But mostly the idea of NWTC is to save someone gas money/time/tolls that does not want to drive into the loop. That doesn't work going in the opposite direction. As far as your last comment, with paratransits running the service, Pace doesn't sound too confident in it either.

[Busjack]

... As far as your last comment, with paratransits running the service, Pace doesn't sound too confident in it either.

That goes back to the original 655/889 contract. At least the 889 contract indicated that the contract operator could use motor coaches or paratransits. However, it was also reported that if a bus was empty, it didn't go past Alsip. If Rosemont or NWTC are going to be loading points for the a.m. 895, that option won't be available.

I'm taking that Pace 834 is in a position to know about paratransits. However, there is still the Coach USA mystery raised by art.

[Busjack]

Just as we type, Moving Forward says that 895 is funded by JARC and

Those working in Schaumburg who currently use Pace Route 606 may wish to consider using Route 895 because it travels express to Schaumburg, and the distributor function may improve the ease of access to their job in the so-called "last mile" of their commute.

Which is what we just figured out.:lol:

[MetroShadow]

If you look back at the Pace Minutes as reflected in this post, that came up a couple of months ago with regard to a joint CMAQ application with the Tollway.

Update: To the extent that this bus picks up in Rosemont it would serve that purpose, which is why I suppose you posted this here.

Understandable that the intentions of 600 will be used bi-directionally, it's just (1) If and (2) when. This does cut 20+ minutes off for any direct Schaumburg-Rosemont trip, since it takes 20 minutes from one end of 600 to the other, in good traffic, versus 45+ on the limited. Until then, this would be alleviate some overcrowding for 606 passengers (if they choose to transfer).

600 was designed to whisk people to either NWTC or Rosemont to their intended destinations. When I lived in Hanover Park, I took the [before the 544 combo] 554 bus, then transferred to the 600 to Rosemont; the reverse in the PM. I used it because I refused to drive in traffic on 90. Of course, at night, I'd just take the Metra because I couldn't make those connections.

I'd assume that, too, 600 helps with the interline processes since headways on 606 are high in the rush periods.

[Busjack]

Here are images of what the buses for Rt.895 will look like once the wraps are applied.

Based on the fleet number, apparently they are getting the small paratransits, not the larger 5131 series ones. Must not be expecting much of anyone.

At least it isn't the usual unidentified paratransit (like on former route 535).

[jajuan]

That goes back to the original 655/889 contract. At least the 889 contract indicated that the contract operator could use motor coaches or paratransits. However, it was also reported that if a bus was empty, it didn't go past Alsip. If Rosemont or NWTC are going to be loading points for the a.m. 895, that option won't be available.

I'm taking that Pace 834 is in a position to know about paratransits. However, there is still the Coach USA mystery raised by art.

Yes plus Pace progresses the mystery by the posted schedule on their site saying the carrier is Coach USA. Last minute change to go with Pace paratransit buses instead perhaps?

[Busjack]

Yes plus Pace progresses the mystery by the posted schedule on their site saying the carrier is Coach USA. Last minute change to go with Pace paratransit buses instead perhaps?

Pace 834 said paratransits since Nov. 10, so that part is still consistent. If that fleet number is correct, it has been hanging around South Holland for about a year.

The Coach USA mystery goes back to when art said they were out in July, and Keeshin's website went dead and the Coach USA site, when you pulled down Chicago, went back to the main page. That's sort of changed, but now lists for "Tour Services->North Illinois/South Wisconsin" Van Galder and Wisconsin Coach Lines, both in Wisconsin. They still have Chicago Double Decker and Trolley Co.,* but at apparently a different address. The Pace schedule still has the Lost and Found as "Coach USA Chicago"

I still find it hard to believe that Pace would enter into a new contract with a nonentity, so Coach USA Chicago must be something. Nobody is saying that this is being taken over by some Pace division, as what happened with regard to Academy, and eventually happened with respect to 755/855, but only when it went to BOS. However, since it appears that Coach USA has subsidiaries or franchises its name, it isn't clear whether some other entity is now using Coach USA here, just that Keeshin Charter Service isn't soliciting business.

_____

*Which refers to affiliated Stagecoach Group companies.

[BusHunter]

So what do they do here? Do they put fareboxes in Paratransits? Is there room? At Rosemont they've already put the signs up for the stop. The bus will stop out by where the hotel shuttles stop. Where the Kiss N' Ride drop off location is, by the Taxi stand. They have posted schedules at NWTC too, (on the lighted kiosk) but I don't know where it's stopping there.

[Busjack]

So what do they do here? Do they put fareboxes in Paratransits? ..

I'll defer to others on what they'll actually do, but unless they are going to add the route to the list at the bottom of the Fare Information Page as not taking all media (such as the DuPage and McHenry routes that only use the rectagular tin can for a fare box), they'll have to. Those are generally isolated, but one would think that they would have to accept media for transfers on this route. I've seen Lisle buses with the tin cans, but also with Chicago Card readers.

[BusHunter]

There announcing the #895 route on the buses now. Heard one on a bus from West. I don't remember if they have ever announced new routes that way, but at least someone might learn about it that doesn't have internet access.

[artthouwill]

There announcing the #895 route on the buses now. Heard one on a bus from West. I don't remember if they have ever announced new routes that way, but at least someone might learn about it that doesn't have internet access.

I heard it yesterday on both the 383 AND 307. I also heard "commercials" for Comcast Sportsnet, and one other agency on the 383.

[Busjack]

Figuring that buses would be on time today because nobody would be riding them, I scoped out the NWTC. Yes it was bay 5, and the first I saw was 5741, but no wrap. At least some had a route 895 sign in the window ahead of the passenger door.

Also, the coinbox was the usual for a paratransit, not the GFI one.

[artthouwill]

What is the purpose of this route?

A. Waste money

B. To get people to Schaumburg or Rosemont to transfer to 610 to go to Hoffman Estates

C. To act as a reliever for 606 with express Rosemont to Schaumburg service

D. To act as a feeder/distributor for offices in Schaumburg near NWTC.

If it were B and or C, I would imagine putting a bigger bus on the route. No one would want to ride that paratransit vehicle,

If D, why bother with the Chicago Ridge - Schaumburg portion of the route?

[Busjack]

What is the purpose of this route?

A. Waste money

B. To get people to Schaumburg or Rosemont to transfer to 610 to go to Hoffman Estates

C. To act as a reliever for 606 with express Rosemont to Schaumburg service

D. To act as a feeder/distributor for offices in Schaumburg near NWTC.

If it were B and or C, I would imagine putting a bigger bus on the route. No one would want to ride that paratransit vehicle,

If D, why bother with the Chicago Ridge - Schaumburg portion of the route?

Answer is ....

...A.

B makes sense only to get people from Chicago Ridge to Rosemont to transfer to something else there, in that there is no connection at Schaumburg to 610. The via 355 runs don't accomplish that. I also don't get the via 355 one in the afternoon leaving NWTC 5 minutes before the via 294 one.

C and D, Maybe but it doesn't seem like much of one with a paratransit, and unavailable to take most transfer fare media. I noted earlier that if the point were D, they could somehow integrate the Schaumburg Call and Ride.

I had also suggested E: Use federal grant money to give whoever had the work on 755/855 some work, but you were the one who claimed to have some knowledge what the deal was with "Coach USA Chicago."

I also throw into the pot that 889 (South Suburbs-Rosemont) didn't work, but at least that served the established Park & Rides in the South Suburbs (such as the Harvey TC). This one doesn't even purport to have a Park & Ride in Chicago Ridge, nor connect with any CTA service on the south end.

[BusHunter]

I was shocked to see the #895's not doing too bad for ridership. When I was at Rosemont yesterday I watched 10 riders get off the bus and 10 riders get on. With the current service using paratransits, that would almost fill all the seats. (seating capacity should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 15) If this keeps up they may have to promote them to Eldorados. Also I couldn't help but notice the toll roads seem to be running at 1/2 to 3/4 there usual capacity. The 600's were not getting stuck in traffic at all, and that is unusual to say the least. (maybe that is helping with the #895 ridership also) We'll have to see what traffic is like on Friday or next week when everyone's back from vacation. I guess doubling the toll price does have it's benefit if you are in a hurry.

[MVTArider]

Here's a very bad photo of 5740 with a 895 wrap in Schaumburg on Friday:

I also noticed a few riders on the buses I saw Thursday evening.