CTA 2013 budget

[mkohut]

The key is going to if your cutting service to meet ridership demand.Then service should be added to routes that need it.

One has to wonder if Claypool put his foot in his mouth.

[Busjack]

The key is going to if your cutting service to meet ridership demand.Then service should be added to routes that need it.

One has to wonder if Claypool put his foot in his mouth.

While that was the rationale of the Crowd Reduction Plan, matching demand doesn't necessarily mean increasing elsewhere, if the only demand he is matching is the lack of demand on N20. Sort of like since the Jewel opposite Walmart on Golf Road closed,* that doesn't mean that Jewel is building elsewhere.

I wonder how much extra resources would be captured to use elsewhere by cutting a 3 mile round trip portion off N20. Seems like it does save a half hour running time (including layover in Oak Park) and a gallon of diesel a trip.

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*Which it did.

[mkohut]

While that was the rationale of the Crowd Reduction Plan, matching demand doesn't necessarily mean increasing elsewhere, if the only demand he is matching is the lack of demand on N20. Sort of like since the Jewel opposite Walmart on Golf Road closed,* that doesn't mean that Jewel is building elsewhere.

I wonder how much extra resources would be captured to use elsewhere by cutting a 3 mile round trip portion off N20. Seems like it does save a half hour running time (including layover in Oak Park) and a gallon of diesel a trip.

______

*Which it did.

With the N20 instead of needing 4 buses overnite now only needing 3.

I'm useing this as a example that extra bus would be able to do 2 trips on Belmont.

[Busjack]

With the N20 instead of needing 4 buses overnite now only needing 3.

I'm useing this as a example that extra bus would be able to do 2 trips on Belmont.

Your calculation appears correct.There is the possibility of the extra bus being available, but you would have to compare actual platform hours and also consider that this doesn't make any additional physical buses available during the rush hour.

Since I assume you aren't in the planning department,* you would have to go through the about 76 schedules posted on the Advance Timetable list, and compare them to the existing ones, not to mention that school trips will be added. On the other hand, there are only 5 Upcoming Alerts related to the cutbacks. Maybe in the next week there will be a press release on improved service on a couple of the 71 other routes, or maybe not.

Maybe you are picking up on a diction difference in that the 43 Alert says "Service to the Stock Yards Industrial Park is being discontinued due to low ridership" while the rest are phrased as "to better match with customer demand."

*Someone here is.

[mkohut]

My idea of having more cash would be trimming the amount of members on all 4 Boards down to 10 total.

But,by the way it looks its not going to happen.

Plus,all the people running for Governor look more suited to appear on the Weakest Link.I think Ann Robinson or George Gray would have a field day with then.

[jajuan]

One thing I can say about the latest upcoming scale backs of service is that it's good that we have this forum to share the information about them given the current CTA management's penchant for now doubling down on not always being as forthcoming and transparent with divulging information to the public until the change is right around the corner. The other part of it yes the information is available, but let's face it. How many of us have time to flip back and forth between at present 76 out of approximately 140 bus schedules and compare them to their preceding variations to see how much they've changed? And keep in mind the general public don't have this forum as a backup to turn to get alerted to changes in service when they are pressed for time to go through the CTA website. I think in some ways Claypool counts on that to slip these things under the radar especially past those of us who notice the double speak. Even though I don't use the routes in question, bravo to Sam for sifting through and finding the next cuts that are going to pass under the public's radar.

[mkohut]

One thing I can say about the latest upcoming scale backs of service is that it's good that we have this forum to share the information about them given the current CTA management's penchant for now doubling down on not always being as forthcoming and transparent with divulging information to the public until the change is right around the corner. The other part of it yes the information is available, but let's face it. How many of us have time to flip back and forth between at present 76 out of approximately 140 bus schedules and compare them to their preceding variations to see how much they've changed? And keep in mind the general public don't have this forum as a backup to turn to get alerted to changes in service when they are pressed for time to go through the CTA website. I think in some ways Claypool counts on that to slip these things under the radar especially past those of us who notice the double speak. Even though I don't use the routes in question, bravo to Sam for sifting through and finding the next cuts that are going to pass under the public's radar.

I feel if the 4 spoke people can't put the information out there.There should be where another cut can be made.

[Sam92]

One thing I can say about the latest upcoming scale backs of service is that it's good that we have this forum to share the information about them given the current CTA management's penchant for now doubling down on not always being as forthcoming and transparent with divulging information to the public until the change is right around the corner. The other part of it yes the information is available, but let's face it. How many of us have time to flip back and forth between at present 76 out of approximately 140 bus schedules and compare them to their preceding variations to see how much they've changed? And keep in mind the general public don't have this forum as a backup to turn to get alerted to changes in service when they are pressed for time to go through the CTA website. I think in some ways Claypool counts on that to slip these things under the radar especially past those of us who notice the double speak. Even though I don't use the routes in question, bravo to Sam for sifting through and finding the next cuts that are going to pass under the public's radar.

Guess the thing to look out for are the picks. I seen an alert posted for the 28 by my house. Then seeing the scaled back OWL service on the 20 made me wonder "what else are the hiding?" so I went through the upcoming alerts. You can tell this guy is trying hard to slip these reductions in without having to deal with reaction from us riders.... The alerts for these cuts just happen to be at the VERY BOTTOM of the upcoming alerts list.... Even below changes that are happening waaaaaay in OCTOBER. Everything else just happens to be in chronoloical order Except for the reductions... But there's nothing wrong with blindly trusting Forrest Gump right?

[jajuan]

Guess the thing to look out for are the picks. I seen an alert posted for the 28 by my house. Then seeing the scaled back OWL service on the 20 made me wonder "what else are the hiding?" so I went through the upcoming alerts. You can tell this guy is trying hard to slip these reductions in without having to deal with reaction from us riders.... The alerts for these cuts just happen to be at the VERY BOTTOM of the upcoming alerts list.... Even below changes that are happening waaaaaay in OCTOBER. Everything else just happens to be in chronoloical order Except for the reductions... But there's nothing wrong with blindly trusting Forrest Gump right?

And that's why I didn't know to go look for any of this stuff until I saw your post, because he has it out of sequence of the chronological order of everything else and tucked hidden at the bottom past upcoming October changes when we're now in mid August and just six days ahead of these changes set to come. As for the 85A in particular, didn't service just get cut back in the spring pick? You mean that route is having ridership problems to the point of needing service chipped away again around the edges barely five months later?

[trigger]

And that's why I didn't know to go look for any of this stuff until I saw your post, because he has it out of sequence of the chronological order of everything else and tucked hidden at the bottom past upcoming October changes when we're now in mid August and just six days ahead of these changes set to come. As for the 85A in particular, didn't service just get cut back in the spring pick? You mean that route is having ridership problems to the point of needing service chipped away again around the edges barely five months later?

It wasn't all that long ago that the last northbound 85A left JP at 12:30 am. It used to be the latest bus operating out of JP (except for some 85s going to Forest Glen and 81 of course). They've been hacking it back every few months. I wonder how long before there will be no buses (except 81) on the NW side after 8:00 pm?

[Busjack]

...The other part of it yes the information is available, but let's face it. How many of us have time to flip back and forth between at present 76 out of approximately 140 bus schedules and compare them to their preceding variations to see how much they've changed? ...

I guess the question becomes how much of this is posted either on the buses or the bust stop poles. However, other than having an "Updated Bus Timetables" link on the home page, you two are correct that they did their best to hide the alerts on the website.

[artthouwill]

Speaking of reduced service, more under the table cuts were snuck in for the August 25th pick.

- #N20 Madison Owl buses will no longer operate to Harlem/Lake and only between Washington/Stare and Austin in order to "better match ridership demand"

- #28 Stony Island will only operate on Hyde Park for Union Staion trips only; all other trips will resume operating on Lake Park to "match ridership demand on Hyde Park"

- #43 43rd will no longer operate to Stock Yards due to "low ridership to the Stock Yards"

- #85A North Central now ends a 1-1/2 hour at 9 pm to better " match customer demand"

- #88 Higgins will end 30 minutes earlier to "match customer demand"

Guess he thinks these under the table cuts are gonna be his key out. Just as he hit a brick wall and had a hard time with negotiating with the union to take care of his budget woes, his **** is gonna hit the fan with this as well. I doubt people in oak park are gonna take kindly to losing 24-hour service now that N20 no longer serves the green line. What's next? Scaling back N9, N60, and N62 from their nightly extensions as well isolating even more rail riders? Or maybe even ending N55 service to the MSI and instead operating between Garfield Green Line and St. Louis instead?

Speaking of reduced service, more under the table cuts were snuck in for the August 25th pick.

- #N20 Madison Owl buses will no longer operate to Harlem/Lake and only between Washington/Stare and Austin in order to "better match ridership demand"

- #28 Stony Island will only operate on Hyde Park for Union Staion trips only; all other trips will resume operating on Lake Park to "match ridership demand on Hyde Park"

- #43 43rd will no longer operate to Stock Yards due to "low ridership to the Stock Yards"

- #85A North Central now ends a 1-1/2 hour at 9 pm to better " match customer demand"

- #88 Higgins will end 30 minutes earlier to "match customer demand"

Guess he thinks these under the table cuts are gonna be his key out. Just as he hit a brick wall and had a hard time with negotiating with the union to take care of his budget woes, his **** is gonna hit the fan with this as well. I doubt people in oak park are gonna take kindly to losing 24-hour service now that N20 no longer serves the green line. What's next? Scaling back N9, N60, and N62 from their nightly extensions as well isolating even more rail riders? Or maybe even ending N55 service to the MSI and instead operating between Garfield Green Line and St. Louis instead?

1. I guess I don't take enough rides on the N20, so I will have to find another way, since most of the time I was the only passenger on the bus.

2. Since there are still 47th/Lake Park short turns during rush hours, I guess it will be a crapshoot whether to wait on Lake Park or Hyde Park at 53rd, or 55th if going southbound during rush periods. I guess NB buses will say "to 47th/Lake Park via Lake Park" or "to Union Station via Hyde Park"

3. I'm surprised that it took this long to cut the rush hour service to the Stock Yards. I expected this 10 years ago. What do you expect with a bus that runs every 20 minutes all day?

4. I guess there isn't much ridership out of Jefferson Park when it gets dark? Maybe except CTA workers catching rides to the garage

Thanks for the update Sam, so now I won't be looking stupid looking for a bus that was never going to be coming (N20). BTW, I've seen no notices on buses highlighting any specific changes, especially on any Chicago Ave based routes or Forest Glen based routes.

[Busjack]

....

2. Since there are still 47th/Lake Park short turns during rush hours, I guess it will be a crapshoot whether to wait on Lake Park or Hyde Park at 53rd, or 55th if going southbound during rush periods. I guess NB buses will say "to 47th/Lake Park via Lake Park" or "to Union Station via Hyde Park"

...

The crapshoot is a good point. At least before there was that 28 went via Lake Park and X28 went via Hyde Park, and since the two were interlined I didn't see the point of abolishing the X28 designation.

As far as boarding, CTA is going to have to spend the money to redo the bus stop signs on both Lake Park and Hyde Park, probably with type too small to read that the Lake Park stops are served by 28 only during certain hours, and thus not saving any money.

However, the only time when the H blocks are not contiguous is early a.m. rush northbound, according to the advance schedule.

[BusHunter]

It wasn't all that long ago that the last northbound 85A left JP at 12:30 am. It used to be the latest bus operating out of JP (except for some 85s going to Forest Glen and 81 of course). They've been hacking it back every few months. I wonder how long before there will be no buses (except 81) on the NW side after 8:00 pm?

As far as ridership problems on the #85A I counted 7 riders NB one rush and maybe 10-12 south. Waiting 20-25 minutes for service is just killing it and the #54A. The #85A is so slow, I find the #226 is quicker. The #88's not doing too good either. Alot of people just walk to the hospital from the Blue line. I wouldn't doubt soon the #54A is just going to run to Oakton-Skokie Yellow line from out south. That's what happens when you start cutting.

[Busjack]

As far as ridership problems on the #85A I counted 7 riders NB one rush and maybe 10-12 south. Waiting 20-25 minutes for service is just killing it and the #54A. The #85A is so slow, I find the #226 is quicker. The #88's not doing too good either. Alot of people just walk to the hospital from the Blue line. I wouldn't doubt soon the #54A is just going to run to Oakton-Skokie Yellow line from out south. That's what happens when you start cutting.

By bringing up 226 and 54A, you are back to the Crowd Reduction Plan of letting Pace handle it, but not announcing how. But based on the current 226 schedule, it is only weekdays and the last trip is 6:20.

I suppose that CTA could say with regard to 54A to transfer to 97 if you really want to go to Old Orchard, and from there to 205 to go to the Skokie Courthouse.

[mkohut]

There is another sneaky service cut.On 201 service midday is going to every half hour.

[Busjack]

There is another sneaky service cut.On 201 service midday is going to every half hour.

That gets me back to the point I made to Carole Brown in 2005--CTA should just turn Evanston over to Pace. Ridership Reports indicate that Evanston has ridership on a par with other Pace routes in the area.

I found it weird that Emanuel acknowledged turning over city territories to Pace, but somehow CTA feels a need to hold onto Evanston and Skokie. 97 should also be a Pace route (now especially since the argument that Howard is in Chicago is no longer a rationale given the cutbacks in the city and the Howard part overlaps 215). Then the only question would be whether the routes that cross the boundary (54A and 93) really serve passengers crossing the boundary. But as we acknowledged in the discussion about Lipiniski, he realizes that the current setup just results in duplication and waste. The Auditor General also said so in 2007.

Update: Despite what Claypool said, the voters in Evanston and Skokie don't get to vote out Emanuel. Also, I don't think Wilmette wants him back.

[mkohut]

What i find interesting is Emanuel and Claypool not pushing the Orange Line to Ford City.Considering it is Lipinski area.

Especially since Emanuel likes to uses TIF funds for whatever he wants.

[Busjack]

What i find interesting is Emanuel and Claypool not pushing the Orange Line to Ford City.Considering it is Lipinski area.

Especially since Emanuel likes to uses TIF funds for whatever he wants.

The benefit of any extension would be marginal and mostly for Pace buses that wouldn't have to go to Midway.

Besides that, unlike Daddy, Dan's residence is in Willow Springs. From his map, he apparently has part of the Back of the Yards (which he didn't have last time) and some of Chicago west of Pulaski, but the overwhelming portion is still in the suburbs.

And, of course, the TIF funds may be enough to build a station, but that extension would probably be about $500 million.

[mkohut]

The benefit of any extension would be marginal and mostly for Pace buses that wouldn't have to go to Midway.

Besides that, unlike Daddy, Dan's residence is in Willow Springs. From his map, he apparently has part of the Back of the Yards (which he didn't have last time) and some of Chicago west of Pulaski, but the overwhelming portion is still in the suburbs.

And, of course, the TIF funds may be enough to build a station, but that extension would probably be about $500 million.

You do have to remember that the College Clowns will find the money for a project to get reelected.

It did work for George Ryan with the Hillside Stranger.

[Busjack]

You do have to remember that the College Clowns will find the money for a project to get reelected.

It did work for George Ryan with the Hillside Stranger.

I hate to tell you, Rod Blagojevich and Pat Quinn that unlike the Federal Reserve, which can create money, the state of Illinois cannot, because the U.S. Constitution says it may not, except gold.

Besides that, the southwest side was Chico country (thanks to Ed Burke) in the last mayoral election. Rahm knows he has to buy votes on the south side.

The Hillside Strangler and any of Quinn's ribbon cuttings are because each raised license plate stickers, liquor taxes, and the like, and then issued 30 year bonds secured by those fees on projects (like the NABI buses) that had a 5 year useful life. However, because of the credit downgrades, Quinn indicated that he can't issue any more of those bonds despite the fact that certain revenues are pledged to their repayment.

[mkohut]

With Emanuel having to buy votes .

How is he going to keep his promise to extent the Red Line ?

When parents want him to use TIF Funds for CPS ?

With Blago he was moving money around.

[Busjack]

...

How is he going to keep his promise to extent the Red Line ?

...

Obviously, he isn't going to be able to without coming up with $1 billion in federal funds. He talks about public private partnerships, but really hasn't come up with one.

But as you seem to have noted, the Red Line is his only transit promise, as it appears that he [and pretty much everyone else] has given up on or ignored the Orange Line and Circle Line.

I've also contended that the $240 million 95th St. bus terminal rehabilitation (most of which is borrowed money) is a concession that the Red Line extension will not be built in the conceivable future. The Environmental Assessment for that is that the plan is essentially to build another station on the south side of 95th with a pedestrian bridge over 95th linking the two stations. That wouldn't be necessary if the 13 CTA and 5 Pace routes now serving the station could be cut down to maybe 7 CTA routes and 2 Pace ones by routing the others into more southerly stations.

For those talking about merging 95E and 95W, the two station idea might then make more sense, except that half of the frequency of 95W has been cut.

[jajuan]

As far as ridership problems on the #85A I counted 7 riders NB one rush and maybe 10-12 south. Waiting 20-25 minutes for service is just killing it and the #54A. The #85A is so slow, I find the #226 is quicker. The #88's not doing too good either. Alot of people just walk to the hospital from the Blue line. I wouldn't doubt soon the #54A is just going to run to Oakton-Skokie Yellow line from out south. That's what happens when you start cutting.

It's the similar scenario that eventually killed 49A and 56A, which also had Pace routes paralleling part or all of the route and the CTA service was cut around the edges instead of setting up or keeping an adequate service coordination with the Pace routes like you have in the case of 63W and 95W. Both 49A and 56A did use to coordinate with the respective Pace routes on those stretches of Western and Milwaukee before CTA killed the coordination and made their schedules separate from Pace.

[mkohut]

Obviously, he isn't going to be able to without coming up with $1 billion in federal funds. He talks about public private partnerships, but really hasn't come up with one.

But as you seem to have noted, the Red Line is his only transit promise, as it appears that he [and pretty much everyone else] has given up on or ignored the Orange Line and Circle Line.

I've also contended that the $240 million 95th St. bus terminal rehabilitation (most of which is borrowed money) is a concession that the Red Line extension will not be built in the conceivable future. The Environmental Assessment for that is that the plan is essentially to build another station on the south side of 95th with a pedestrian bridge over 95th linking the two stations. That wouldn't be necessary if the 13 CTA and 5 Pace routes now serving the station could be cut down to maybe 7 CTA routes and 2 Pace ones by routing the others into more southerly stations.

For those talking about merging 95E and 95W, the two station idea might then make more sense, except that half of the frequency of 95W has been cut.

Without knowing the cost of each part of the Red Line Extension.But,even if you just go to 103.You can have 103,106,108,352,359 go there.

That would probably be the best route to go Unless,Emanuel with Hollywood friends will pay for the entire extension.