MAN Americana

[busfan4022]

Hey, does anyone know why the MAN Americana retired? I already know they were extremely old buses. Did they have any other defects to lead to their retirment? Its been bugging me since 2004.

[jesi2282]

It was just there time, they were old, beat up, had been in service since 1985 with no rehab, they had no AC, almost always had a broken destination sign, also a big factor that led to retirement was that they were not wheelchair accessible.

[kendo26]

I sure miss the MAN's. In their prime I used to ride them on the 49. I still think they had the best heat of any bus the CTA has ever had.

[MetroShadow]

yeah, they're great in the winter, but what happens when the windows fail during the summer...ESPECIALLY the summers of 95 and 99?!

[Bus Repairman]

They had a 4290 that had "retrofit" air conditioning installed as a test. It was a major problem. It was done afterwards as a "test" bus, but the unit was mounted on the roof and was always a problem with water causing shorts. (Not a good sealed unit like they are now). The engines on them were pretty easy to work on, but the way the front suspension was designed, they were kind of a high maintenance item with the city streets. They wore out Alternator and Water pump belts pretty quick to.

[cta6085]

I Loved Them Very Much Because I Rode Them On The 119 Michigan/119th And 108 Halsted/95th

[exitzero]

They had a 4290 that had "retrofit" air conditioning installed as a test. It was a major problem. It was done afterwards as a "test" bus, but the unit was mounted on the roof and was always a problem with water causing shorts. (Not a good sealed unit like they are now).

Why did you guys decide to go with a roof-mounted solution? Didn't Americanas have space above the engine for that? I know that Minneapolis' TA ran a slew of Americanas and the A/C in those was pretty much always ice cold.

BTW the MAN engines were always my favorite, right behind the DD 6v92s.

[jajuan]

Finally. Some posts on a message board that don't rip on Americanas. It's good to see I'm not the only person who thought the Americanas were cool busses. Too bad the CTA didn't get accessible mobiles like a couple other cities that had them had done.

[Busjack]

CTA management liked them; as discussed in another thread, CTA attempted formulating the specifications for the 4400s so that MAN would be the only responsive bidder, but the other manufacturers protested, and MAN closed its North Carolina plant.

With regard to the location of the air conditioner, at the time CTA was more interested in the rear window, which was part of the specification for the MAN 892s. Later, the 4400s and 5800s had rear windows, but the air conditioning was subsequently retrofitted at the rear of the 4400s. Air conditioning was not initially specified for the MANs because of problems with the A/C on the New Looks.

Also, at the time CTA was fighting putting lifts on buses, and the activists protested, further delaying the order until the ADA made them mandatory.

My opinion was that the MANs looked better on the inside than the outside, but this may have been that by the time I saw them, they had been repainted and the paint job was sloppy (for example the fleet numbers were all over the place). They might have looked better with the factory pine and lime paint job. At least their frames did not fall apart, unlike the Flyer D901s'.

[sw4400]

My opinion was that the MANs looked better on the inside than the outside, but this may have been that by the time I saw them, they had been repainted and the paint job was sloppy (for example the fleet numbers were all over the place). They might have looked better with the factory pine and lime paint job. At least their frames did not fall apart, unlike the Flyer D901s'.

If the Flyer D901's were that bad, Busjack, then why did the CTA keep them in service for 20 years rather than just scrapping them and ordering new buses from another company?  And why are some still being used today?  If the frames were as bad as you say, the CTA would retire the Flyers due to safety concerns.

[Busjack]

When the first Novas came, there were only 113 of the about 198 Flyers left on the roster. By comparison, there were about 430 of the 460 MANs left (based on Tribune reports at the time). I remember when you argued that CTA should not exercise the options for the 1000s and buy a European MAN because of defects in the Flyers, and trainman8119 pointed out that the problems to which you alluded were with the 9800 and 9900 series buses, not the 5800s. See also the prior post with a link to Toronto's problems with their Flyers. Also, since you like delivery lists, here is one with several of them rejected.

[jajuan]

Here's an interesting little fact. There are only five Americanas left in Chicago and they aren't exCTA. They're former Minneapolis buses that were sold to a church on the south side near Garfield and the Dan Ryan.

[RIPTA42]

Last time I was by that church, only one bus was left.

CTA still has two Americanas.

[MetroShadow]

I'm suprised that noone mentioned bus 4220 out of North Park. That is the only bus that I recalled that experimented with the flip-dot signs, but it apparently stopped working in the late 90's.

[Busjack]

I'm suprised that noone mentioned bus 4220 out of North Park. That is the only bus that I recalled that experimented with the flip-dot signs, but it apparently stopped working in the late 90's.

Not sure what you mean here, since it looked like all the 4000s had the first generation, fairly unreadable flip-dot signs. Do you mean the LED lighted flip dots, like on the 6400s? Or the signs that had bold fonts?

[trainman8119]

I would think that relates to the bold fonts. None of the Americanas had anything more up to date. In fact, were not the first orange signs tested on a couple of the orignal New Flyers ???

[MetroShadow]

Not sure what you mean here, since it looked like all the 4000s had the first generation, fairly unreadable flip-dot signs. Do you mean the LED lighted flip dots, like on the 6400s? Or the signs that had bold fonts?

Actually, I was thinking of first generation luminators, similar to the 5800's.

[cta6085]

Were The 4000's On The 119 Michigan/119th Before Retirement?

[MetroShadow]

there were 4000's out of 103rd, if that's what you're asking (typically around the 4300 series).

[Chi-town Kid]

These were great buses. As a little kid, I was always annoyed by how high the windows on these buses were but I grew to like them.

Some routes I remember these on: #36, #145, #146, #147, #156, #155, #82.

I also liked Man's articulated buses as well. However, I didn't like the 1983 Flyers. The 1995 Flyers were a vast improvement.

[Buslover88]

I never Rode 1983 Flyer. I've only Rode the 4400s, 5300s, 5800s, 6000s & 6400s. I have yet to Ride a 4915, 7500 or a 1000. I Wish I could have a Ridden a 7100, 7300 or a 9800/1600 Series, but those are all Retired. Now I Remember, I have Ridden a Couple Americanas on #81 & #91

[jajuan]

Then you rode an Americana during the time shortly after the retirement of the 1983 Flyers. Once those Flyers were retired, Forest Glen got what was left of the Americanas from 74th and 103rd garages. With the first arrival of the Novas, those garages were able to go fully accessible, and CTA was able to retire what few 1983 Flyers were left and replace them with the Americanas from 74th and 103rd.

[busfan4022]

I remeber the Flyers. I rode it one time when i was four. I never really knew what garage it was from, but i would always see one everyday. The Americanas were nice. I always loved them, and was devastated when the retired.

[cta1060]

Yeah, I recall these MAN Americana 4000s. My very worst and the very least favorite transit bus of all-time. These buses looked like a brick or shoebox on wheels or whatever you want to call them. Destinations either never worked or too hard to read. The engines sounded like a school bus. I seen the first time in 1986. I rode them just get from A to B or C or where ever. I'm glad that CTA retired them. I'll take a Neoplan before the MAN Americana. I'll took a few photos of them just please and share with others.

[Busjack]

The engines sounded like a school bus.

That was supposed to be "fine German engineering." In fact, one of the things that resulted in MAN leaving the US market was that it cost too much to import the engines.

Personally, I can't comment on them, because by the time I got back to town, they were old. They seemed to hold together as a group until replaced in 2002-2004.