Ventra - Bugs, Feedback, and Questions

[sw4400]

I saw one of those Ventra card readers/holders, whatever they are on the Lincoln bus today.

[artthouwill]

I saw one of those Ventra card readers/holders, whatever they are on the Lincoln bus today.

I saw one on a Pace bus out of Pace West.

[jajuan]

When it comes to the turnstiles that have them. I know Bryn Mawr and Berwyn on the Red Line each have two turnstiles have then. And I believe I may have also seen turnstiles at the Polk Pink Line station that also have them.

[ChicagoNova]

NP's artic #4124 also has a Ventra Card reader.

[jajuan]

1923 and a number of the NP 1400s also have them now.

[sw4400]

Really??? Ventra gets an "F" rating from the Better Business Bureau??? User beware, methinks...

Story

[Railwaymodeler]

A few friends at Pace and I were joking a while back about with Ventra, now Pace might get into the credit card fraud racket, as being sued so much, the money has to come from somewhere. We're figuring we may be closer to the mark than we thought!

Of course, we're talking about a company that could screw up pouring milk on cereal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjvQRerJu0g

[Busjack]

Really??? Ventra gets an "F" rating from the Better Business Bureau??? User beware, methinks...

Story

Again, did your read the last paragraph of that story?

I find it notable that

• The byline was NOT Pam Zeckman or Dave Savini.
• They weren't throwing Cubic under the bus.
• Someone has to process bank card transactions. Do you know who is behind on all the "pay $3 to use this ATM"s or the hundreds of gift cards on the rack at Jewel? Would you trust Bank of America or Citibank more? Even Microsoft engaged in this fraud.

[jajuan]

Again, did your read the last paragraph of that story?

I find it notable that

• The byline was NOT Pam Zeckman or Dave Savini.
• They weren't throwing Cubic under the bus.
• Someone has to process bank card transactions. Do you know who is behind on all the "pay $3 to use this ATM"s or the hundreds of gift cards on the rack at Jewel? Would you trust Bank of America or Citibank more? Even Microsoft engaged in this fraud.

That was going to be my point. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and saying 'Hey you not only get to use this card for transit purposes, but you also have to use this card as a debit card as well. CBS 2 is making this brouhaha about that Better Business Bureau rating, but glosses over the fact that the debit card usage of the card is an OPTION, meaning you don't have to put money on the card for anything other than to pay to get on a Pace or CTA bus or boarding one of CTA's trains. You don't have to activate the debit option and use the card for grocery shopping or any other non transit transactions unless you want to. What caught my eye is that the rating stemmed from complaints of folks not being able to get alleged fraudulent or erroneous transactions refunded back to the card but didn't say whether or not the customers in question used a pin number on those cards or had payments processed the way you would a credit card transaction. That part of the equation is important because even when it comes to debit cards issued that are linked to regular checking and savings accounts handled by a bank, the fraud protection laws and rules are different depending on if a PIN number were used. You have a much smaller window to challenge a transaction and have any fraud protections kick in if a PIN number were used in the transaction than if used the card in the manner of a credit car if I understand the rules and regulations covering debit cards correctly.

[Busjack]

....You have a much smaller window to challenge a transaction and have any fraud protections kick in if a PIN number were used in the transaction than if used the card in the manner of a credit car if I understand the rules and regulations covering debit cards correctly.

I don't have the answer to this one, but I think you are right.

The whole point of the exercise, though, is that a passenger doesn't have to use the Ventra card at all. All Ventra is is a Visa Blink card (according to its logo). One should be able to use any bank card with the Blink logo, and then the issue would be between you and your bank. I only use my Blink card as an ATM card, but if I used it as a debit card, say at Costco, I would be as much at the mercy of Costco's processor as Cubic's, but, in either event, my bank would have to make it right if I protested the transaction.

[sw4400]

The Ventra Card will have account management functionality that allows you to link it to your bank account or major credit card and have it automatically reloaded. Link

Would you link your bank account or major Credit Card that the BBB has graded with an "F"? If you can just load money on it, fine. But to link a bank account or major Credit Card to it might be something you might want to research first. There is a reason for the "F" grade.

[jajuan]

I don't have the answer to this one, but I think you are right.

The whole point of the exercise, though, is that a passenger doesn't have to use the Ventra card at all. All Ventra is is a Visa Blink card (according to its logo). One should be able to use any bank card with the Blink logo, and then the issue would be between you and your bank. I only use my Blink card as an ATM card, but if I used it as a debit card, say at Costco, I would be as much at the mercy of Costco's processor as Cubic's, but, in either event, my bank would have to make it right if I protested the transaction.

Yes true. I hate using checks and I try not to have too much cash on me beyond what I might need for the day, so I do use my Blink card as a debit card. I try to use the tap and go option where possible to reduce wear and tear on my card, especially it's magnetic strip, since I do use it a lot. I watch all my transactions like a hawk and do a double check against what the online list of what my bank says my transactions should be to make sure they match up anyway, so this is why I take this story as media bumping something up higher than what it actually is. If anything it just brings folks attention to how they should watch after their personal upkeep anyway regardless of if they're using the Ventra system or using debit cards for other regular daily transactions.

[jajuan]

The Ventra Card will have account management functionality that allows you to link it to your bank account or major credit card and have it automatically reloaded. Link

Would you link your bank account or major Credit Card that the BBB has graded with an "F"? If you can just load money on it, fine. But to link a bank account or major Credit Card to it might be something you might want to research first. There is a reason for the "F" grade.

Again you DON'T have to use the cards issued by Ventra. You can use your own card issued by your bank. It's just a way to process payment of fares, either through cards they give you or your own bank or credit card. You should be keeping track of all your transactions on a daily basis anyway to ensure that what your own records show the status of your financial accounts should be matches what the bank has. While we're making a fuss about Ventra, as posed earlier how do you think your transactions are processed when you use your own debit or credit cards to shop at the local grocery or out at a restaurant? Do very many of us realistically bother to check a BBB rating for and all companies responsible for processing our regular debit and credit card transactions we do on a daily basis?

[sw4400]

Again, did your read the last paragraph of that story?

I find it notable that

• Someone has to process bank card transactions. Do you know who is behind on all the "pay $3 to use this ATM"s or the hundreds of gift cards on the rack at Jewel? Would you trust Bank of America or Citibank more? Even Microsoft engaged in this fraud.

• The bank that owns the ATM. My bank doesn't charge for ATM usage so long as I use their ATM's. I can also use it for Debit trasnsactions with no fee.
• The prepaid phone cards at Jewel that have a fee you can blame on the Government. The Visa and Mastercard Gift Cards are processing fees that are part of those two companies, not the store that sells them. We don't get that $5.95 fee.

[sw4400]

Do very many of us realistically bother to check a BBB rating for and all companies responsible for processing our regular debit and credit card transactions we do on a daily basis?

Umm... wouldn't you be a little hesitant to give credit/bank info to a company with an "F" rating? You know how difficult it would be to right your credit if it gets messed up by a company that seems to give a rat's tail-end about it's customers?

The BBB’s president and CEO, Steve Bernas, says Money Network received that lowest rating based on nearly 100 complaints in the last three years. One of the complaints said: “Money Network denied my dispute of obvious fraudulent charges to my debit card.”

“Whether or not they do business with the company is up to them,” Bernas says of consumers. “We just provide them with the data – what other consumers have told us over the last three years.”

Even the CTA Revenue Director was surprised about this...

“At this time, I have not actually looked into this, but I will continue to look into our relationship with First Data.”

If you feel comfortable giving Money Network your personal Credit or Bank info so you can use it as a Debit Card, by all means... but this is plenty of warning to make you think otherwise...

"obvious fraudulent charges to my debit card"

it's your personal bank and credit info, but if one day you find some $3,000 transaction you never did, good luck with that because this company denies disputes of it's customers. My advice... get the Ventra Card for the transit system only, don't get the Debit Card. Add money to it only... don't link it to ANY Bank or Credit Card accounts.

[jajuan]

I don't, but if it is reported that BBB rates it "F" because of this

The BBB’s president and CEO, Steve Bernas, says Money Network received that lowest rating based on nearly 100 complaints in the last three years. One of the complaints said: “Money Network denied my dispute of obvious fraudulent charges to my debit card.”

“Whether or not they do business with the company is up to them,” Bernas says of consumers. “We just provide them with the data – what other consumers have told us over the last three years.”

Even the CTA Revenue Director was surprised about this...

“At this time, I have not actually looked into this, but I will continue to look into our relationship with First Data.”

If you feel comfortable giving Money Network your personal Credit or Bank info so you can use it as a Debit Card, by all means... but this is plenty of warning to make you think otherwise...

"obvious fraudulent charges to my debit card"

it's your personal bank and credit info, but if one day you find some $3,000 transaction you never did, good luck with that because this company denies disputes of it's customers. My advice... get the Ventra Card for the transit system only, don't get the Debit Card. Add money to it only... don't link it to ANY Bank or Credit Card accounts.

For all the quoting and regurgitating articles which we already read, what part of YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE ANY OF THE OPTIONS OUTSIDE OF CTA OR PACE GETTING YOUR FARE PROCESSED IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO USE THOSE OTHER OPTIONS that you don't comprehend? As long as you do what you should already be doing as far as doing daily upkeep of your personal accounts, you very likely have nothing to worry about. And do point to anywhere in that article where it says anyone had anything as obscene as a $3000 charged made to their accounts. And those BBB ratings in and of themselves don't mean much without looking at the context under which those ratings are given. Anybody can read complaints that say 'I got fraudulent charges made to my debit card' but as I put in my earlier post that means nothing without knowing did the person use a PIN number that was issued to the card or did they just swipe or tap it and choose the "credit card" option on the POS pad? Because as the fraud protection laws and regulations go, you have a much smaller window under which to report questionable charges made to your debit card and you have far few fraud protections that kick in if you key in a PIN number. By always using any debit card you have in the manner you use a credit card for all purchases you choose not to get a little extra cash, you get the same fraud protection policies to kick in under VISA for example that come into play for any VISA issue credit card. A lot of this information I give here you can find by reading up on your bank's fraud protection policy. That policy generally matches exactly with what the laws and banking oversight regulations stipulate.

[sw4400]

Actually, using Ventra only for transit is fine. Don't link it to anything though... just add money to it on the bus/at the rail stations and use it that way. But there are people who will be read about Ventra and think "I can get a Debit Card and buy things at stores with it too." Those are the people who should really read that news article about this company before inking anything for a Debit Card and linking Bank Accounts/Credit Cards to anything Money Network operates, including Ventra.

So here's a quote that might save your credit and bank accounts...

"If you can't cash it, trash it!"

[sw4400]

-As long as you do what you should already be doing as far as doing daily upkeep of your personal accounts, you very likely have nothing to worry about.

-And do point to anywhere in that article where it says anyone had anything as obscene as a $3000 charged made to their accounts.

-I doubt everybody checks their Credit Card accounts on a daily basis. Bank accounts, yes, but not Credit Cards.

-That was an example on how quickly someone could have something happen to their account in a large sum. Real life example, a friend of mine found a suprise in her checking account... $600 was deposited into her account from WI, and she never went up there, nor put that much into her account. Now if someone deposited money into your account from another state, wouldn't you take precautions that said person won't be able to drain your account as appearantly somebody has your account number?

[jajuan]

-I doubt everybody checks their Credit Card accounts on a daily basis. Bank accounts, yes, but not Credit Cards.

-That was an example on how quickly someone could have something happen to their account in a large sum. Real life example, a friend of mine found a suprise in her checking account... $600 was deposited into her account from WI, and she never went up there, nor put that much into her account. Now if someone deposited money into your account from another state, wouldn't you take precautions that said person won't be able to drain your account as appearantly somebody has your account number?

Well I'm on who checks both the bank accounts on a daily basis. I don't use my credit card for much outside of the occasional emergency purchase. And I go online to my bank accounts and make sure every transaction that's completed or pending each day matches exactly what transactions I know I made and recorded on each given day. As for linking your account to any company to which you want to pay regularly for a service that they provide you like a utility company, as an example, rather than you giving them your account number directly, do the link up directly through your bank's website under the bill pay section when you sign into your account instead of that company's site. That way the payment is done directly through your bank and not through that third party going to your banking account and touching any of your funds. If it works the same as how I do it through my bank you basically need the name and location of that company and your account number with that company. The question under that circumstance is will you be able to do that with Ventra.

[Busjack]

Actually, using Ventra only for transit is fine. Don't link it to anything though... just add money to it on the bus/at the rail stations and use it that way. But there are people who will be read about Ventra and think "I can get a Debit Card and buy things at stores with it too." Those are the people who should really read that news article about this company before inking anything for a Debit Card and linking Bank Accounts/Credit Cards to anything Money Network operates, including Ventra.....

And also the people who pay exorbitant fees to currency exchanges, the fees you mentioned on the gift cards (at least Safeway said that their gift card kiosks are a profit center for them, so I don't see where you get that Jewel isn't the one marking them up), the Wallmart money card (terms here, including it is really GE Capital Bank), the Chase Liquid card (which doesn't have all the fees of the Walmart one, but does charge $4.95 a month), etc.

Basically, people who either don't know how to manage their money or think they don't have alternatives get taken. It is clear that jajuan and I are not going to put money on a Ventra card, since we have no reason too, and basically there is no reason to have a Ventra card at all unless you now have a Chicago Card Plus and are putting a monthly pass or transit benefits on it.

Which gets me to my final point. Do you have a reloadable Chicago Card Plus? Do you know what entity does the funds transfer on that? Do you remember when Pace customers got charged twice by Cubic?*

______

*Pace supposedly asked for an audit of interconnection fares, but Cubic ran it as a charge.

[artthouwill]

For myself, I intend to only use Ventra as a transit card because I have a a card that I use for debit and credit. However, there are lots of people who may opt for the debit card option for whatever reason. Based on the article, the number of complaints over a three year period are minuscule hen you factor how many transactions are processed.

There are three months in a year when you have to really be leery concerning investigative news reporting. Those months are February, May, and November. Those months are "sweeps", when the channels use their viewing ratings to set advertising rates. Thus these are the months that get the hyped investigative reports.

[jajuan]

For myself, I intend to only use Ventra as a transit card because I have a a card that I use for debit and credit. However, there are lots of people who may opt for the debit card option for whatever reason. Based on the article, the number of complaints over a three year period are minuscule hen you factor how many transactions are processed.

There are three months in a year when you have to really be leery concerning investigative news reporting. Those months are February, May, and November. Those months are "sweeps", when the channels use their viewing ratings to set advertising rates. Thus these are the months that get the hyped investigative reports.

The last part of your post is exactly my point. We've known CTA and Pace were going to convert to Ventra for months now. So why now all of a sudden out of the blue are we seeing an "investigative report" about a BBB "F" rating? If they were so concerned, they would have looked into this months ago when CTA first announced the Ventra conversion. Plus the problem with BBB ratings sometimes is that a complaint can be resolved but the complaint still drags down that companies rating.

[owine]

Doesn't sound like Money Network will touch anything unless you decide to use a Ventra card as a debit/credit card at a retail store. Money Network doesn't sound like they have anything to do with processing payments to load/reload Ventra cards and if you link an existing Visa Blink or MasterCard PayPass card, Money Network won't suddenly start processing payments related to your card.

There's no such thing as a company offering prepaid debit cards that will get anything above an F rating

[Busjack]

Doesn't sound like Money Network will touch anything unless you decide to use a Ventra card as a debit/credit card at a retail store. Money Network doesn't sound like they have anything to do with processing payments to load/reload Ventra cards and if you link an existing Visa Blink or MasterCard PayPass card, Money Network won't suddenly start processing payments related to your card.

There's no such thing as a company offering prepaid debit cards that will get anything above an F rating

From the website, that seems correct.

They are a subsidiary of First Data Services, which provides card acceptance services, but as far as point of sale equipment goes, Cubic is providing that.

One would think that whatever the transaction service, if it were clearing fraudulent transactions, the banks would quit accepting them.

[Kevin]

CTA will host a public hearing on March 11, 2013 regarding open fare media fees:

• To offset production costs, a fee of $0.50 will be included in the purchase price of the disposable Limited Use Ticket for a single ride and for disposable tickets sold in bulk for single ride, 1-Day, 3-Day, 5-Day and 7-Day Passes.
• Similar to the Chicago Card (which will be phased out when the open fare system is implemented), there will be a one-time cost for purchase of the Reloadable Card of $5.00 plus the cost of any initial stored value or pass product. The $5.00 will be refunded immediately as stored value for transit use upon the customer’s registration of the Reloadable Card within ninety (90) days of purchase.
• After eighteen (18) months of inactivity, a $5.00 dormancy fee will be deducted each month from any stored transit value in a transit account, whether on a Reloadable Card or a personal credit/debit card.

In other words, it looks like CTA wants to discourage use of non-reloadable, one-time use tickets. Since they will use RFID chips rather than magnetic stripes, production costs are likely higher than Transit Cards.

If you want to use a Ventra-branded card rather than your own contactless credit card, CTA wants you to register it or it'll cost you $5. This is probably to discourage people from willy-nilly obtaining and discarding Ventra cards every other week.

The dormancy fee seems kind of silly, since I can't imagine what costs are associated with an inactive "transit account", which is really nothing more than a database record in their computer systems.