CTA 2014 Historical Calendar

[mel bernero]

CTA has posted their 2014 calendar on the website.

[twyztdmynd]

2015 Historical Calendar is here.

[BusHunter]

Kind of an interesting thing I read about "L" cars 1-4. Not only did they have a white and red exterior, they had a gray interior with red and black colored seats. The cars were painted over four years after they went into service but the seats were kept until their retirement.

BTW, I found a nice set of pictures from St Louis Car Company on Flickr which shows the first #6000's in an unmarried state at the factory. Kind of interesting to see the conductors position outside the cars and the missing window that CTA must have put in at a later date so conductors could see between the cars. Also the seating configuration I don't remember ever seeing before that has the riders sitting facing towards the center of the married pair. Further down in the pictures (pg 3) are shots of #5000's (1947-48 ones) being delivered. Interesting that they were delivered onboard two freight flat cars. I wonder how they cornered on the freight, maybe they just used the articulation pivot. They have pictures of those cars with the vinyl seats wrapped in paper wrapping to protect in shipping. That's really something when you think these are going on 70 year old cars.

Here's the link: https://www.flickr.com/photos/wustl_archives/sets/72157604060019155/

[Busjack]

...

BTW, I found a nice set of pictures from St Louis Car Company on Flickr which shows the first #6000's in an unmarried state at the factory. Kind of interesting to see the conductors position outside the cars and the missing window that CTA must have put in at a later date so conductors could see between the cars.....

....

CERA 115 had before and after pictures showing that the windows were retrofit. It hits me as freaky that they expected the conductors to work outside, but I guess that's how predecessor cars worked. There are also pictures of 5001-5004 (later 51-54) showing a conductor position inside the car, but no drop window, so the conductor couldn't inspect the cars, hence why they were not used in the conductor's position when trained with 6000s on the Ravenswood.

Lind's CSL book shows a 1-4 with the high speed paint job as delivered, showing into what the PCC streetcars were converted. The books also say that 6127-6130 also got the paint job (also indicated in the back of the calendar), because they had various experimental propulsion systems in them, instead of those either based on or salvaged from the PCC streetcars.

What hits me as somewhat freaky (and again my experience reflects after they were repainted) were 424 without cream around the windshield, and the trolley bus with whatever under the windshield. Note, also, that the destination on Addison was Pueblo.

[BusHunter]

CERA 115 had before and after pictures showing that the windows were retrofit. It hits me as freaky that they expected the conductors to work outside, but I guess that's how predecessor cars worked. There are also pictures of 5001-5004 (later 51-54) showing a conductor position inside the car, but no drop window, so the conductor couldn't inspect the cars, hence why they were not used in the conductor's position when trained with 6000s on the Ravenswood.

Lind's CSL book shows a 1-4 with the high speed paint job as delivered, showing into what the PCC streetcars were converted. The books also say that 6127-6130 also got the paint job (also indicated in the back of the calendar), because they had various experimental propulsion systems in them, instead of those either based on or salvaged from the PCC streetcars.

What hits me as somewhat freaky (and again my experience reflects after they were repainted) were 424 without cream around the windshield, and the trolley bus with whatever under the windshield. Note, also, that the destination on Addison was Pueblo.

The #424 bus was shot in '62-'63 so you're looking at the delivered livery of that bus. I believe the cream was put on it in '64, if my memory is correct. I'm not sure if all #300- #449's were done or not. The #152 also had a limited bus according to maps of that era. Interestingly the local ran from Belmont/Sheridan much like a #151 and the limited ran express via LSD much like a #146. I believe the llmited did limited stops on Addison as well. That must have been a 100 minute trip one way especially in the rush for a local. Maybe the limited could do it 20-30 minutes faster.

I wish they would have shown the actual door controls on the #6000's on the outside but it might have made sense that they were in an interior panel as electrical switches probably don't mix with rain but then I don't know if there was an electric shock risk for the conductor either.

One last thought about the #5000's of the 1940's. If they were delivered via two flat cars to CTA, then how did they ever transport those to IRM and Fox River. It looks as if they can't be split apart.

[Busjack]

.... The #152 also had a limited bus according to maps of that era. ..

There were both Limited (green signs) and Express (Red signs).

1969 map:

...

One last thought about the #5000's of the 1940's. If they were delivered via two flat cars to CTA, then how did they ever transport those to IRM and Fox River. It looks as if they can't be split apart.

Krambles's book (page 60) said that the Throop shop was the only place where the cars could be inspected without disassembling to articulation, so the inference is that you could disassemble the articulation.

BTW, the Flickr you cited has several pictures of the St. Louis ones at the plant (5003, 5004).

[trainman8119]

I find it interesting the the car pics at the plant don't have the old English style of number, but more the type of number that was often used after a paint job in the later years.

[Busjack]

I find it interesting the the car pics at the plant don't have the old English style of number, but more the type of number that was often used after a paint job in the later years.

That was also in CERA 115.Pages 13 and 16 show the lower numbered ones as delivered, and page 18 shows 6130 like that, so it must have extended through the first order. They must have been swapped out at one point.

I was also going to mention, in response to BusHunter, that Krambles's book has a picture of a conductor between the cars behind the chains, but doesn't show the door controls.

[BusHunter]

There were both Limited (green signs) and Express (Red signs).

1969 map:

Addison.jpg

Krambles's book (page 60) said that the Throop shop was the only place where the cars could be inspected without disassembling to articulation, so the inference is that you could disassemble the articulation.

BTW, the Flickr you cited has several pictures of the St. Louis ones at the plant (5003, 5004).

I heard these #5000's were a real pain to maintain. If you look at the trucks, they are right under the articulation points so if you separate them then one end is going to have to be held up in an artificial way whether by small crane or lift. I suppose it could be done but I can see the headaches of separation.

You mentioned in another quote that in Lind's book, the #5000's conductor position was inside the car, so I wonder how they ever got the idea to make the conductors position back outside the car in the #6000's with those being the next gen cars. Another interesting thought is where were the automatic door controls placed on a #4000 as I have never seen them and where did the conductor work outside or inside.

[jajuan]

The #424 bus was shot in '62-'63 so you're looking at the delivered livery of that bus. I believe the cream was put on it in '64, if my memory is correct. I'm not sure if all #300- #449's were done or not. The #152 also had a limited bus according to maps of that era. Interestingly the local ran from Belmont/Sheridan much like a #151 and the limited ran express via LSD much like a #146. I believe the llmited did limited stops on Addison as well. That must have been a 100 minute trip one way especially in the rush for a local. Maybe the limited could do it 20-30 minutes faster.

I wish they would have shown the actual door controls on the #6000's on the outside but it might have made sense that they were in an interior panel as electrical switches probably don't mix with rain but then I don't know if there was an electric shock risk for the conductor either.

One last thought about the #5000's of the 1940's. If they were delivered via two flat cars to CTA, then how did they ever transport those to IRM and Fox River. It looks as if they can't be split apart.

The earliest part of my childhood was during the 300's final years and by then I think they all pretty much had the cream colored fronts that Busjack remembers more associated with these particular Fishbowls. So it would seem the all green fronts were quite a bit before my time.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

I heard these #5000's were a real pain to maintain. If you look at the trucks, they are right under the articulation points so if you separate them then one end is going to have to be held up in an artificial way whether by small crane or lift. I suppose it could be done but I can see the headaches of separation. ...

Although the benefit is supposedly that there are less trucks to maintain, and the train has a better chance of staying righted in a derailment.

Talgo trains, like the ones used by Amtrak in the Pacific Northwest, also use this shared configuration. Note the wheel blocks underneath the cars. The question is if this method was used for the old 5000s.

[Busjack]

Although the benefit is supposedly that there are less trucks to maintain, and the train has a better chance of staying righted in a derailment.

....

Actually, not the case. A 5000 had the same number of trucks and the same capacity as a married pair. Only difference was that the inner trucks were under the articulation, and thus shared between the bodies. See, for instance, this picture on chicago-l.org.

The only benefit claimed was that it provided a larger 1 man car when used on the Skokie Swift. Apparently that was no longer a benefit when all trains became 1 man.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

Actually, not the case. A 5000 had the same number of trucks and the same capacity as a married pair. Only difference was that the inner trucks were under the articulation, and thus shared between the bodies. See, for instance, this picture on chicago-l.org.

The only benefit claimed was that it provided a larger 1 man car when used on the Skokie Swift. Apparently that was no longer a benefit when all trains became 1 man.

Ah, I didn't consider that comparison. Thanks for the correction.

Seems to be a small benefit, compared to the man hours needed to work on the train, as suggested by BusHunter.

[Busjack]

Ah, I didn't consider that comparison. Thanks for the correction.

Seems to be a small benefit, compared to the man hours needed to work on the train, as suggested by BusHunter.

I guess what you were assuming is that standard CTA cars are 48 feet long, and if there were 3 48 foot long cars, you could save 2 trucks. According to chicago-l.org, the total length of the unit was 89 feet.

[BusHunter]

For that matter the trucks are built the same way on the North Shore Electroliner. Interesting, the electroliner was originally ran on the loop elevated from it's inception in 1941. Also interesting is six years later CTA gets an articulated model based on the same concept. I guess they figured what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroliner

If anyone's interested, this model shows how the electroliner splits over the truck. They would definitely have to hold up the other side. (pan down past the furniture to see image)

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9894672

[Busjack]

For that matter the trucks are built the same way on the North Shore Electroliner. Interesting, the electroliner was originally ran on the loop elevated from it's inception in 1941. Also interesting is six years later CTA gets an articulated model based on the same concept. I guess they figured what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroliner

If anyone's interested, this model shows how the electroliner splits over the truck. They would definitely have to hold up the other side. (pan down past the furniture to see image)

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9894672

According to the CTA books, the concept for the 5000s was from Brooklyn. They do acknowledge that both were articulated, but credit the Electroliners for the curved sides to get more width at the seats while clearing the platforms.

[Piesciuk]

Here is a link to simple blueprints for the 5000s.

http://irm-cta.org/Blueprints/RT_5001-5004_1947-08-00(W)Part1.pdf

[BusHunter]

According to the CTA books, the concept for the 5000s was from Brooklyn. They do acknowledge that both were articulated, but credit the Electroliners for the curved sides to get more width at the seats while clearing the platforms.

Interesting a Brooklyn articulated?? Never heard of one. I guess I'll have something to look up now.

[Busjack]

Interesting a Brooklyn articulated?? Never heard of one. I guess I'll have something to look up now.

Commonly known as a Bluebird car; a reference is here.

[MTRSP1900-CTA3200]

I guess what you were assuming is that standard CTA cars are 48 feet long, and if there were 3 48 foot long cars, you could save 2 trucks. According to chicago-l.org, the total length of the unit was 89 feet.

Yeah, that was it.