Forest Glen Garage Expansion

[BusHunter]

Spotting an article in the Nadig paper about the Fg garage expansion.

http://nadignewspapers.com/2014/02/10/cta-plans-to-expand-forest-glen-bus-yard/#more-1108

I wonder if they intend to increase the fleet there? There seems to be no other purpose than to expand on the ideas in the Spring pick to take the load off other garages. Too bad they wouldn't build a new structure on the site, even if it means part of the garage is outside and part inside. I wonder if soon we may see Fg take over the #74, #65 or #73.

[Busjack]

Spotting an article in the Nadig paper about the Fg garage expansion.

http://nadignewspapers.com/2014/02/10/cta-plans-to-expand-forest-glen-bus-yard/#more-1108

I wonder if they intend to increase the fleet there? There seems to be no other purpose than to expand on the ideas in the Spring pick to take the load off other garages. Too bad they wouldn't build a new structure on the site, even if it means part of the garage is outside and part inside. I wonder if soon we may see Fg take over the #74, #65 or #73.

I had mentioned in the 2014 Spring Pick topic an ordinance to acquire 5601 N. Elston and demolish the building there. Only refers to land for parking buses and other vehicles.

[BusHunter]

I had mentioned in the 2014 Spring Pick topic an ordinance to acquire 5601 N. Elston and demolish the building there. Only refers to land for parking buses and other vehicles.

The article I linked to says that plans are undisclosed so far on what they want to do with the land other than level it. So if they take the land to the SE, would they then keep the shed on the SE part of the yard. I believe that's an enclosed salt pile shed. I always did wonder why the yard on the armstrong side wasn't enclosed, with the neighbors over there causing CTA to bring preheater buses from other garages to please the community.

The article is interesting, talking about the history of FG in brief. I didn't know they wanted to use the Indian trail road or whatever it's called as an entrance to the yard. They sound like they may have been interested in the housing complex east of the yard, before that land was sold but couldn't get it.

[jajuan]

I think it's wait and see on if they acquire additional assigned routes when expansion is done based on what CTA5750 mentioned a year or two ago about how the way the current facility is configured in addition to how the surrounding neighborhood has that garage boxed makes it a tight squeeze just for the number of buses that currently get assigned there. And this is despite the facility theoretically being designed for a capacity of 310 standard buses.

[South Shop 7]

The land that Forest Glen Garage sits on is not owned by the cta . There were plans for the owners to sell the land and cta to move . Look out in the future for a new Forest Glen.(F).North.Park (P) and 77 ( 7) garage as part of cta moderinazition projects . These Garages are the only 3 outside garages left

[Busjack]

The land that Forest Glen Garage sits on is not owned by the cta . There were plans for the owners to sell the land and cta to move . Look out in the future for a new Forest Glen.(F).North.Park (P) and 77 ( 7) garage as part of cta moderinazition projects . These Garages are the only 3 outside garages left

I really doubt your first sentence. Besides I'm sure that you have not done a title search at the Cook County Recorder of Deeds Office (and I am not going to do one for you), CTA would not have paid $967,000 to buy land next to it (and that's what the ordinance cited above said they did) to add it to land they did not own, besides which they wouldn't have spent $967,000 just to move. At least when they buy land for temporary purposes (such as staging areas for rapid transit projects) they say so up front. They did not say so here.

Also, as the rapid transit acquisitions point out, CTA has the power of eminent domain (70 ILCS 3605/10). I really doubt that it would be paying rent for now 55 years on the property.

What the Nadig News article did say is that CTA also intended to buy the Armstrong Tool Company property at the end of Armstrong Avenue, but that was sold to the housing development.

And as far as getting rid of outside garages, that was mentioned in the capital plans maybe 12 years ago, but never since. Replacing 77th barn (which is not an outside garage) was mentioned more recently (including putting a park and ride garage on freed up land), but again I bet not in the last 5 years.

The fact that the hoist project started at FG and 77th indicates that those garages are not going anywhere.

[Guest]

Well this is a story I didn't expect to read today! Its going to be interesting to see how CTA pulls this off. Obviously this is to create expansion to increase capacity and storage of standard and articulated buses.I remember when there was talk of closing FG and moving to a new facility at Irving Park/Oak Park Ave. Sadly, with the garage expansion, the property values in and around the surrounding area as well as the newest housing development behind FG will drop.

[Busjack]

Well this is a story I didn't expect to read today! Its going to be interesting to see how CTA pulls this off. Obviously this is to create expansion to increase capacity and storage of standard and articulated buses.

On the artics, the hole in the theory previously mentioned was that the July Construction Report showed the hoists going in the same arrangement as reflected in a 1959 picture in Krambles's book. So, unless there was somewhere else where a 60 foot hoist was installed in that maintenance building, it doesn't look like it.

Might be for more 7900s, though, given the report that Diversey was being shifted to there.

[BusHunter]

CTA has an ordinance from 3 days ago for more property at FG garage. This one is for the property at 5353 W. Armstrong. That sounds like the yellow bricked building that was there between the housing development and the garage.

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/ordinances/014-081.pdf

They claim it's for employee parking and bus expansion, but I wonder if maybe a new shop building or renovation of the employees area is in store for them between this and the Elston property (Ex Hill-Behan Lumber store and yard) The garage could use a renovation or restructuring.

[Busjack]

CTA has an ordinance from 3 days ago for more property at FG garage. This one is for the property at 5353 W. Armstrong. That sounds like the yellow bricked building that was there between the housing development and the garage.

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/ordinances/014-081.pdf

They claim it's for employee parking and bus expansion, but I wonder if maybe a new shop building or renovation of the employees area is in store for them between this and the Elston property (Ex Hill-Behan Lumber store and yard) The garage could use a renovation or restructuring.

Yep, that address corresponds to the Pyramid Products building next to the transportation office building. I think a new shop building is unlikely, in that the shop now is across Armstrong,* and the lift project there was completed. As it is next to the transportation building, maybe it is for expansion of it, but similarly to buying the garden center at 5601 N. Elston, I tend to take CTA on its word that they just want the yard space.

__________

*Which has to be kept open for the housing development.

[BusHunter]

Would it be too ridiculous to buy Armstrong ave. from the city as it only serves the housing development and don't they have a back entrance via Indian Trail rd (the road next to the forest north of there) Then Fg could become more functional being on one strip of land.

[Busjack]

Would it be too ridiculous to buy Armstrong ave. from the city as it only serves the housing development and don't they have a back entrance via Indian Trail rd (the road next to the forest north of there) Then Fg could become more functional being on one strip of land.

I don't think so, as the development backs up to the Metra Milw. Division N. tracks. The short roads from Ardmore Ave. are fenced off from the development. Map.

I noted at the time that I couldn't figure out people buying houses behind a bus garage, but they did. At least there seems to be some sound buffering isolating that neighborhood from its surroundings.

[jajuan]

Looking at the street view of how Armstrong is pretty much structured as being only a driveway nestled between the two sides of the garage complex, it appears Busjack would be right that buying it from the city wouldn't really change the functionality of FG.

[Busjack]

Looking at the street view of how Armstrong is pretty much structured as being only a driveway nestled between the two sides of the garage complex, it appears Busjack would be right that buying it from the city wouldn't really change the functionality of FG.

My point was not the functionality of the two garage yards, but the rights of the people in the subdivision east of it. But I agree that other than that, Armstrong Ave. is basically only another parking space for buses (next to the shop) or employee's cars (next to the north yard fence). Maybe the intent is to get them off the street and into the yard.

[Brandon93]

The land that Forest Glen Garage sits on is not owned by the cta . There were plans for the owners to sell the land and cta to move . Look out in the future for a new Forest Glen.(F).North.Park (P) and 77 ( 7) garage as part of cta moderinazition projects . These Garages are the only 3 outside garages left

77th also has indoor parking I used to ride with my dad who was an operator out of 77th.

[Busjack]

77th also has indoor parking I used to ride with my dad who was an operator out of 77th.

No point responding to a post that was thoroughly discredited at the time.

[Busjack]

BH: I assume your references to the "third lot" is the lot to the east of the Pyramid building.

I'm also surprised that CTA hasn't done anything with the Pyramid Building (or garden center) other than to post signs that it has a city vacant building registration.

[Bus fanatic30]

Heard from a operator that works at fg that they are getting artics, but she couldn't tell me when

[RJL6000]

14 minutes ago, Bus fanatic30 said:

Heard from a operator that works at fg that they are getting artics, but she couldn't tell me when

Whatever artics that Forest Glen will receive will most likely come from Kedzie and North Park, as those two garages have more artics than they currently need.

[Busjack]

53 minutes ago, Bus fanatic30 said:

Heard from a operator that works at fg that they are getting artics, but she couldn't tell me when

Maybe the operator should first tell you how they are going to service them, as all pictures of the hoists project indicate that the shop is still arranged as it always was.

This sounds like pure garage gossip, because it it would have happened, it would have either when the Red Line project ended or 77th dumped its artics.

37 minutes ago, RJL6000 said:

Whatever artics that Forest Glen will receive will most likely come from Kedzie and North Park, as those two garages have more artics than they currently need.

As I indicated, if this is the case, it would have happened long ago.

Also, as I stated on June 5, it seems like CTA is doing darn little to take advantage of the "expansion," as the two acquired buildings are still there.

[BusHunter]

Like Busjack says, there is no way to service them at Fg, but we did have the Pres out looking at Belmont last week. Belmont seems to be getting some attention finally and maybe they are seeing how ridiculous a pack of 5 buses is when it shows up at the blue line. This happens just about every day. One day they had so many eb's stopped the wb couldn't even turn in the station.

What I would do is not give Fg artics, i would share the #77 with Chicago or North Park or even Kedzie, this way I could tailor the rush to have some artics. Kedzie has all these pullins at Halsted, even making some of those trippers on the #77 would help. With the Blue line right there at Kimball you have 2 garages that have a good pullin point at Kimball or Kedzie and a third down the street at Pulaski. But if they did do it, I would make the artics exclusively Halsted to Octavia.

[Busjack]

33 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

What I would do is not give Fg artics, i would share the #77 with Chicago or North Park or even Kedzie, this way I could tailor the rush to have some artics. Kedzie has all these pullins at Halsted, even making some of those trippers on the #77 would help. With the Blue line right there at Kimball you have 2 garages that have a good pullin point at Kimball or Kedzie and a third down the street at Pulaski. But if they did do it, I would make the artics exclusively Halsted to Octavia.

This seems to make eminent sense. Besides the LaSalle or Stockton trips ending at Belmont-Halsted, if one picked up on my short trip idea in the Belmont thread, Kimball is on the same grid line as, you guessed it, NP and K. Only issue would be dealing with 156s that end at Stockton-Belmont and deadhead back downtown.

I remember way back saying that passenger count on routes 63 and 77 justified artics, but the response then was that the garages couldn't handle them.

[BusHunter]

If they had a way to put artics at FG, they would be of good use for all these Wrigley extras NP is putting out for the #152. Plus the #152 has some big schools that could benefit off the artics and North Park wouldn't be burdened with a downtown run bus that is stuck somewhere in rush hour on the #152.

Actually an interline wouldn't be a bad thing either between the #77 and #152. They could share artics between them and also give the operators a break running a hard route and then running something easier. Also if they did that maybe it would be good to do reliefs on Addison because I find a late relief can recover faster on the #152. If something like a late relief or bus problems happen on the #77, they'll most likely never recover unless they are switched out. So bottom line is there are alot of things that can be toyed with to get these buses on time and more efficient. Having packs of buses is not really doing the job.

[sw4400]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

Maybe the operator should first tell you how they are going to service them, as all pictures of the hoists project indicate that the shop is still arranged as it always was.

This sounds like pure garage gossip, because it it would have happened, it would have either when the Red Line project ended or 77th dumped its artics.

As I indicated, if this is the case, it would have happened long ago.

Also, as I stated on June 5, it seems like CTA is doing darn little to take advantage of the "expansion," as the two acquired buildings are still there.

 

5 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Like Busjack says, there is no way to service them at Fg, but we did have the Pres out looking at Belmont last week. Belmont seems to be getting some attention finally and maybe they are seeing how ridiculous a pack of 5 buses is when it shows up at the blue line. This happens just about every day. One day they had so many eb's stopped the wb couldn't even turn in the station.

What I would do is not give Fg artics, i would share the #77 with Chicago or North Park or even Kedzie, this way I could tailor the rush to have some artics. Kedzie has all these pullins at Halsted, even making some of those trippers on the #77 would help. With the Blue line right there at Kimball you have 2 garages that have a good pullin point at Kimball or Kedzie and a third down the street at Pulaski. But if they did do it, I would make the artics exclusively Halsted to Octavia.

Well for the foreseeable future, I agree with you both 100%. However, if they do an expansion plan and find room for a larger garage with 60' hoists and larger lot, then maybe Artics could one day be at FG. It all depends on the almighty dollar and if CTA has that as one of their many pet projects.

[jajuan]

11 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Like Busjack says, there is no way to service them at Fg, but we did have the Pres out looking at Belmont last week. Belmont seems to be getting some attention finally and maybe they are seeing how ridiculous a pack of 5 buses is when it shows up at the blue line. This happens just about every day. One day they had so many eb's stopped the wb couldn't even turn in the station.

What I would do is not give Fg artics, i would share the #77 with Chicago or North Park or even Kedzie, this way I could tailor the rush to have some artics. Kedzie has all these pullins at Halsted, even making some of those trippers on the #77 would help. With the Blue line right there at Kimball you have 2 garages that have a good pullin point at Kimball or Kedzie and a third down the street at Pulaski. But if they did do it, I would make the artics exclusively Halsted to Octavia.

 

10 hours ago, Busjack said:

This seems to make eminent sense. Besides the LaSalle or Stockton trips ending at Belmont-Halsted, if one picked up on my short trip idea in the Belmont thread, Kimball is on the same grid line as, you guessed it, NP and K. Only issue would be dealing with 156s that end at Stockton-Belmont (Sheridan-Belmont actually) and deadhead back downtown.

I remember way back saying that passenger count on routes 63 and 77 justified artics, but the response then was that the garages couldn't handle them.

Well since we're delving into the realm of realistic possibilities, it was reported that at one time recently, Kedzie had morning EB trippers on the 77 in the AM rush that began at Kimball became runs on Kedzie's portion of the 151. As you can imagine, these were almost always artics given K uses mainly artics for 151. Don't know if K still does those morning trippers on 77, but if they did it to help with morning 77s, it shouldn't be a reason why something similar in the reverse couldn't be set up for PM rush. K's final weekday 151 trip to Belmont/Halsted leaves Union Station* at 3 PM. After that point, all remaining K operated trips leave Union Station to Belmont/Sheridan until about 5 PM, and many of them then deadhead to downtown to hit Congress Parkway and then the Ike to Kedzie. Those deadheads to Kedzie through downtown could be instead used to become WB trippers on the #77 that end at Kimball and the Blue Line. Some of those 156s that end at Belmont/Sheridan that also deadhead to the garage through downtown instead of becoming another 156 rush extra from downtown can also be sourced to #77 WB tripper trips. 

 

*at this point Jackson/Riverside because of the Adams Bridge Reconstruction project