They're Here (30 ft ElDorado low floors THE 2600s)

[Busjack]

I thought I had seen a picture of a 40 ft. ElDorado bus similarly styled in 2005. Does anyone know if such a bus exists?

RIPTA's BUSCON pictures include the Axess.

[trainman8119]

From what i been told fox will just keep two 6600s for school trips.Today 2621 was going to get send to fox and 6604 was in south holland.

It surprises me that Fox Valley is going with the smaller buses (keeping in mind Busjack's comparison of the 2600 with the 6600). Is that an indication that the restructering of routes as resulted in lower ridership?? I do remember in my days of driving there, that many a 2000 Orion could get filled during the rush (especially the old 526, 530 and 533 routes). You would think that with the restructure there that it would be beneficial to have some capacity, with routes being combined and the such. I can see the smaller buses midday, but I am wondering what happened to the rush hour capacity out there.

[Busjack]

This might be one worth using Ask Pace, if one is really interested. I'm not, as I don't think it is a loss of capacity, but someone might be interested in knowing the IBS results before and after the restructuring.

Also, it is somewhat interesting that a couple of weeks ago, Pace boasted about 907 and 921 getting full size buses, but apparently they are now going bye-bye.

[trainman8119]

Also, it is somewhat interesting that a couple of weeks ago, Pace boasted about 907 and 921  getting full size buses, but apparently they are now going bye-bye.

Thank you for your response. I always know that if I put something out there, you can give me a decent reply that makes a lot of sense. I also think that maybe too much is made out of the IBS system, in terms of passenger counts, since many of the buses have been equipped with counters on them. I remember that 2010 and 2011 had counters on them and the dispatchers had to schedule them for certain routes depending on who wanted what info on them at the time.

As for the 907 and 921, I would imagine that 2600's are considered full size buses compared to vans or dial a ride buses. Also, if there is truely not much difference between the 6600 and 2600 buses, I guess you could say that there are full size buses on the routes.

[Busjack]

As for the 907 and 921, I would imagine that 2600's are considered full size buses compared to vans or dial a ride buses.

Maybe, but I seem to remember Pace mentioning using "slightly smaller buses" on 714 and referring to the ElDorados in this manner (see the Bus Ride Magazine link in message 24).

While unsuccessfully trying to pin this down by Googling, I found the September board minutes, which state that ridership is down in all 3 of the exurban divisions (Joliet, Aurora, and Elgin). The minutes also shed some light on DRIVECAM (apparently the white thing seen on the outside of the bus).

Having figured out the URLs for the minutes, the August ones say: "Another contributing factor is that the Aurora restructuring, while improving transit needs for the area, has reduced the number of transfers, therefore resulting in a decrease in ridership numbers." Playing with the numbers again. Seems like Pace, like CTA, is basing ridership on boardings, instead of measuring whether the bus is being used to capacity (the two may be related, but not congruent).

[Busjack]

Something to check out from the October minutes:

Melinda Metzger, Deputy Executive Director, Revenue Services, reported that the two new ElDorado buses are in service in Schaumburg, replacing two trolleys that have not been kept in good repair by the contractor.

[trainman8119]

"Another contributing factor is that the Aurora restructuring, while improving transit needs for the area, has reduced the number of transfers, therefore resulting in a decrease in ridership numbers." Playing with the numbers again. Seems like Pace, like CTA, is basing ridership on boardings, instead of measuring whether the bus is being used to capacity (the two may be related, but not congruent).

It is a total game. For example, under the old set up, Route 525 was a route that operated in a counterclockwise direction and Route 527 was operated in a clockwise direction...both over basically the same route. Now when you would get to 5th and Farnsworth and change your destination signs, you would count up the number of people on the bus and enter them into the farebox as transfers, even though you did not collect a fare or punch a transfer. Thus, the 525 riders were getting double counted onto the 527 and vice versa. The same would occur if you had an interline from 533 to 522, for example. People would know that the route would interline, not pay for a transfer, yet would get counted twice. This would greatly increase the ridership numbers. Eliminate the transfer, and you lose 10% of your ridership, which may be the case in Aurora. All along they have been fooling themselves, and sooner or later it catches up.

[Busjack]

With all these machinations, it appears we can't get the answer to the real question: whether the restructuring drove enough riders off the system to justify smaller buses (if, in fact, the capacity went down when 6600s were swapped for 2600s).

If it were purely an IBS count, at least the passenger would have to go in and out the doors. However, if the driver can crank up the transfer count on the farebox just because a boundary was passed....

[pace2322]

So there gave someone new buses that cant keep them in good repair.Why not give some some 35 ft 2400s.The ones south have are bad.

[Busjack]

So there gave someone new buses that cant keep them in good repair.Why not give some some 35 ft 2400s.The ones south have are bad.

I thought that the Chance AH-28s were toys, but according to the Altoona FTA bus testing records, have a 12 year life, just like a regular bus. 2423s are too big for Schaumburg trolley service (they have to be able to maneuver through shopping center parking lots), but I would say to give the contractors some 2500s, unless Pace is going to take over maintenance from the contractor (which Pace should do).

According to Altoona, the Transmarks (2500s) have a 10 year service life, so technically they can't be replaced until late 2007. The Chance RT-52s have only a 7 year service life, so they are ripe for replacement now.

Link for FTA service life report.

Of course, given that Pace has toasted two buses before their time...

[pace2322]

Well there been about 8 2500s sitting at south for the last two to three years that i know of.There were no 10 year buses we all know that.

[pace2322]

We are up to 2659 now.6622 Was outside at south holland.

[Busjack]

We are up to 2659 now.6622 Was outside at South Holland.

As of Saturday, it looked like all of Niles' buses were in the South Holland yard. Do you know what's delaying the delivery?

[pace2322]

Just abot all the Niles 2600 are at south now outside.

[Busjack]

Just about all the Niles 2600 are at south now outside.

Moving into the Future of October 19, 2006 said:

... the second set of new ElDorados are headed for north Cook County, including Highland Park and Niles, as well as McHenry County, later this year.

If they are doing it this year, they have one business day to do it, since 1935-1937 were still running in Niles today. I wouldn't put it past the geniuses that run our local transit authorities to run buses painted "Niles" on 352, but anything is possible.:rolleyes:

[pace2322]

From what i been told North Shore has some 2600s.As for the Niles buses,The town of Niles doesnt want them at all.I dont know why but there wont take them.As for river getting them there will be the last.

[Busjack]

As for the Niles buses,the town of Niles doesn't want them at all. I don't know why but there won't take them.

Might be comparatively too big for how Niles uses them, through parking lots and residential streets. Niles always used small vehicles, starting with some Mercedes-Benz vehicles. I didn't know that Niles had any choice, since Pace was providing the vehicles. Maybe they will be like Downers Grove and have to get their own. However, since Orion IIs and Chance RT52s are no longer manufactured, I don't know what else is available (paratransit or Dodge Sprinters?).

Update: As to North Shore, no sight of them around Lake Cook or Highland Park as of now.

[busfan2847]

Update: As to North Shore, no sight of them around Lake Cook or Highland Park as of now.

[trainman8119]

2632 was on the 471 in Deerfield on 12/28/2006

471 is out of Highland Park is it not ???

[Busjack]

I saw the paper work on them and all of the up to 2639 are going to fox.That being that almost replace all the nabis they have?

2632 was on the 471 in Deerfield on 12/28/2006

It looks like we may be jumping to conclusions too soon again. If 2632 is just hitting the street (and not in Aurora), maybe there is still time to deliver 2640-2649.

My observation on Highland Park was based on that at 4:30 p.m. yesterday, 3 6600s were running on 471 and 472. (That would cover 3 of 7 buses that should be out at that time). Maybe give them a week to switch over. The Lake Cook observation was based on the usual mix of Orions, 2500s, 2390s and 6262 on the Shuttle Bug, with 2122 laying over in Sky Harbor.

[Busjack]

I can confirm seeing 2632 on 471 in Highland Park today. It appears to be the only one, as I waited around two rush hour cycles, and all the rest were 6600s (pretty much accounted for 6679-82 and 84).

While it seems to make sense that Aurora would get about 2600-2631, HP 2632-2639 (8 buses to replace 6677-6684), and 2640-2649 were seen painted for Niles, I saw the 2630s in the Pace South Holland yard on November 18 (see post 37) and the 2640s (in fact up to 2654) in the yard on December 16 (see post 62). Thus, Highland Park's have been sitting around somewhere for at least 7 weeks, and the question is why. (This is notwithstanding the rumors on what's happening to the ones painted "Niles Free Bus.")

[MetroLINK9013]

Hi new to this forum but i am familiar with chicagoland transit. Here in Rock Island County we have 25 Eldorado national EZ Riders 2002-2006 and theyre CNG.  My opinion of these buses are as followed.  I believe the second these buses come off the assembly line they should go straight to the junk yard. Light Duty buses like these should not be used as transit buses for heavy duty routes.  MetroLINK here in Rock I sland doesnt quite know where to put them and you can find them on the busiest routes with standing loads. Corrosion is another issue. Our 2002 models are rusting underneathe the windows and accident epairs to bus 0216 back in 2005 showed the stint of the damage. Eldorado National buses are pop can buses Junk Junk Junk. Thank you

James Roach

[Busjack]

I believe the second these buses come off the assembly line they should go straight to the junk yard. Light Duty buses like these should not be used as transit buses for heavy duty routes.  MetroLINK here in Rock Island doesn't quite know where to put them and you can find them on the busiest routes with standing loads.

This might explain why the first ones are being used to free up NABIs for contractors instead of just directly replacing their buses, and giving the ElDorados to divisions that apparently clearly have low ridership (Fox, Highland Park). Also adds fuel to the who think NABIs are junk debate, and maybe just reinforces my point that Pace just buys from the low bidder (although it appears that Pace is getting a second-generation model, while that doesn't necessarily assure that it is better).

[pace2322]

2651 is in serivce at North Shore.

[Busjack]

Still doesn't answer where 2633-2650 are hiding