Pace/CTA North Shore Coordination Plan

[NewFlyerMCI]

Just now, Busjack said:

Not sure what CBG is, but to Winnetka is the same frequency. North of Winnetka isn't, but the combo to Northbrook Court and then downtown Highland Park is.

If people between Winnetka and Highland Park on Green Bay Road need to get to Downtown Chicago, Metra runs parallel.

Chicago Botanic Gardens. I understand most people drive, but they still market transit options. I've no idea why, since, if you aren't taking the 213, which isn't the most reliable Pace route, you'll be walking a mile to Braeside, iirc.

On a separate note, what sort of ridership does the 213 garner?

[Busjack]

On 4/4/2018 at 2:16 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

Chicago Botanic Gardens. I understand most people drive, but they still market transit options. I've no idea why, since, if you aren't taking the 213, which isn't the most reliable Pace route, you'll be walking a mile to Braeside, iirc.

On a separate note, what sort of ridership does the 213 garner?

RTAMS says 1082 weekday in Nov. 2017, but does not indicate the geographic coordinates where boardings occur. I assume the consultants had that data.

[MetroShadow]

On 4/4/2018 at 12:16 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

Chicago Botanic Gardens. I understand most people drive, but they still market transit options. I've no idea why, since, if you aren't taking the 213, which isn't the most reliable Pace route, you'll be walking a mile to Braeside, iirc.

On a separate note, what sort of ridership does the 213 garner?

To my knowledge, strong enough an alternative to Metra that it does get decent ridership south of Winnetka; and above average ridership to get folks to Lake County.  

[Tcmetro]

Pace has published the final report. Route A (Linden-Glenview-Northbrook Ct) will be Rt. 424. Route B (Harlem Blue Line - Glenview) will be Rt. 423. Route C (Jefferson Pk - Old Orchard) will be Rt. 641.

 

http://pacebus.com/pdf/initiatives/NSCP/NSCP_Final_Report.pdf

http://pacebus.com/pdf/initiatives/NSCP/Route-by-Route_Summary_of_Changes.pdf

[artthouwill]

41 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

Pace has published the final report. Route A (Linden-Glenview-Northbrook Ct) will be Rt. 424. Route B (Harlem Blue Line - Glenview) will be Rt. 424. Route C (Jefferson Pk - Old Orchard) will be Rt. 641.

 

http://pacebus.com/pdf/initiatives/NSCP/NSCP_Final_Report.pdf

http://pacebus.com/pdf/initiatives/NSCP/Route-by-Route_Summary_of_Changes.pdf

I always thought 226 should've gone to Howard instead of Jefferson  Park.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I always thought 226 should've gone to Howard instead of Jefferson  Park.

Kind of surprising 226 is running until midnight. 97 service is untouched. 

Did the north central carpenter corridor lose all it's service except for 225?

[Busjack]

16 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

Pace has published the final report. Route A (Linden-Glenview-Northbrook Ct) will be Rt. 424. Route B (Harlem Blue Line - Glenview) will be Rt. 424.

Actually, they both won't be: the Northbrook bus will be 423, as I predicted. I was close on 641 as being an Edens route.

On 424, it looks like Pace is going away from its roots, as it is not associated with Wilmette, and, IMO, should have been a 22x. The consultant must have thought that 10 years of 423 stuck.

[Tcmetro]

1 minute ago, Busjack said:

Actually, they both won't be: the Northbrook bus will be 423, as I predicted. I was close on 641 as being an Edens route.

On 424, it looks like Pace is going away from its roots, as it is not associated with Wilmette, and, IMO, should have been a 22x. The consultant must have thought that 10 years of 423 stuck.

Thanks for catching the error. Updated my original post.

[Busjack]

15 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

Thanks for catching the error. Updated my original post.

You fixed it properly, but as I read further into the document, I realized I goofed. Northbrook Ct is 424

[Busjack]

On 4/4/2018 at 2:16 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

...On a separate note, what sort of ridership does the 213 garner?

 

On 4/4/2018 at 2:21 PM, Busjack said:

...RTAMS says 1082 weekday in Nov. 2017, but does not indicate the geographic coordinates where boardings occur. I assume the consultants had that data.

The Route by Route summary has some but not all of the information. It says that there are approximately 2200 daily boardings between Winnetka and Howard, but only 22 on Green Bay Road in Highland Park.  I wonder how many board at the Highland Park Metra.

I corrected my prior post, as the Glencoe to Northbrook Court portion still directly serves Chicago Botanic Garden.

[Busjack]

14 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Kind of surprising 226 is running until midnight. 97 service is untouched. 

Did the north central carpenter corridor lose all it's service except for 225?

Future 226 east of Niles Center Road is supposed to match what 215 provided, which will be rerouted to Jeff Pk.

225 is being beefed up to provide all day service on Central/Carpenter.

On your other  persistent point,  the Final Report says eventually 4  additional Pace buses, but 8 fewer  CTA buses, peak.

[Busjack]

My last observation du jour is that 422, 423, and 424 were the assigned numbers, because all get restructured from 422 and 423 in Phase 3. I don't know why that takes until 2020, though.

Note: The phase dates on Page 23 of the Final Report and Page 3 of the Route by Route summary don't match.

[BusHunter]

13 hours ago, Busjack said:

Future 226 east of Niles Center Road is supposed to match what 215 provided, which will be rerouted to Jeff Pk.

225 is being beefed up to provide all day service on Central/Carpenter.

On your other  persistent point,  the Final Report says eventually 4  additional Pace buses, but 8 fewer  CTA buses, peak.

I don't know where the ridership will be coming from on 226. I've been on it and it doesn't do too good now west of milwaukee. Most of the ridership is on the central carpenter corridor. The 97 will basically do the 226s job east of the yellow line. Where the riders will come from especially at night is a mystery to me. It used to run with eldorkos so it is a light ridership route to start off.

[artthouwill]

15 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Kind of surprising 226 is running until midnight. 97 service is untouched. 

Did the north central carpenter corridor lose all it's service except for 225?

If I understood  properly,  the Central/Carpenter portion of the current 225 and 226 will become 215.  The. 226 will continue what is now the 215 east of Carpenter.   Nothing said about the 85 A.

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, artthouwill said:

If I understood  properly,  the Central/Carpenter portion of the current 225 and 226 will become 215. 

No you didn't. Central/Carpenter becomes full time 225.

215 stays on Crawford until Peterson, and then is on Cicero to Foster.

[BusHunter]

5 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

If I understood  properly,  the Central/Carpenter portion of the current 225 and 226 will become 215.  The. 226 will continue what is now the 215 east of Carpenter.   Nothing said about the 85 A.

I think the fact that is doesnt go to old orchard will hurt the ridership. So it actually sounds like more western service area routes are going there instead of eb buses. The 97 could be packed 208 too which does real good already.

[Busjack]

3 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I think the fact that is doesnt go to old orchard will hurt the ridership. So it actually sounds like more western service area routes are going there instead of an buses. The 97 could be packed 208 too which does real good already.

Your "it" does not have an anteceddent. Old Orchard gets better service via the improved 215, new 641, and pretty much as is 208.

I suggest reading the linked documents before posting.

[BusHunter]

23 hours ago, Busjack said:

Your "it" does not have an anteceddent. Old Orchard gets better service via the improved 215, new 641, and pretty much as is 208.

I suggest reading the linked documents before posting.

Yeah but the point busjack is what is going east. 641 goes south the new 215 does too. 226 goes east but not going to old orchard hurts it. Pay attention now scholar!!! LOL 

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Yeah but the point busjack is what is going east. 641 goes south the new 215 does too. 226 goes east but not going to old orchard hurts it. Pay attention now scholar!!! LOL 

Why would 226 go to Old Orchard?  That makes no sense, especially since the end destination is Howard  Red line.   Anyone on current or future 226 can transfer to 97 to go to Old Orchard

 

[BusHunter]

7 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Why would 226 go to Old Orchard?  That makes no sense, especially since the end destination is Howard  Red line.   Anyone on current or future 226 can transfer to 97 to go to Old Orchard

 

And 226 at midnight makes sense. I just think there will be some overcrowding on the eb stuff cause there's no #54a

[jajuan]

I think the point that's getting missed in this 226 not going to Old Orchard concern is that the main reason Pace wants to swap terminals between the 215 and 226 is that they wanted to eliminate the crazy shapes to the current route structures and iron out the big kinks in the route structure of all the current routes overall. So keeping in line with that, they swapped the terminals for these two so that 215 can be a purely North-South route overall and the 226 a purely East-West one. Why would they eliminate some of the oddities in route structure only to create a two-mile kink in the new 226 on its way to Howard Red Line Station? Like was pointed out, anyone wanting to ride to Old Orchard from 226 can transfer to the 97, new 215, or 641 to make that two mile ride to the north of the 226.

[BusHunter]

I'm not saying 226 has to go to the mall but why would you ride it, to go to menards??? It's basically residential which makes it a peak service draw. I dont know what the midday ridership is like but its probably like a 304 route that no longer exists. 

I don't know it seems that they are really trying hard to promote the edens shoulder service but what it gains is lost when it goes west. It needs to go south probably to irving blue line. It does have a terminal. I would try to incorporate a kennedy express in the future. While the blue line goes to ohare it does not go to the northern suburbs. It seems a market to explore. While the existing service helps wb commuters like going to ohare the 250 does go there to and soon as a pulse express. 

I think while the edens express is nice they are losing focus on who goes to old orchard in bulk. It's not the 54a riders that's been established already.

[artthouwill]

 

Definitely  agree with jajuan's assessment.   The same thing happened years ago when the eastern portions of the then 208 Busse Hwy and the 209 Golf switched.  208 becameGolf from Woodfield all the way throughand the Busse portion of the old 208 was matched with the  209 east of Des Plaines, becoming the new 209. Similarly,  the old 352 dropped it's routing South of 154th/Park in Harvey and got the old 370 routevia Halsted from Harvey to Chicago Heights attached to itbecoming a true 352 Halsted.  The Harvey'Markham-Homewood part of the old 352got a new route 356.  Pace is trying to streamline it's routes.  

[Busjack]

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

I don't know it seems that they are really trying hard to promote the edens shoulder service but what it gains is lost when it goes west. It needs to go south probably to irving blue line.

The shoulder authorization ends at Foster. Jeff Park is on the Blue Line, and why in the world would they want to get the bus stuck for 20 minutes at the Edens Jct.?

 

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

. I would try to incorporate a kennedy express in the future.

Again, a total mistake. Why would Pace now want to compete with the Blue Line, for a 1 hour trip that would take 25 by L? The express lanes don't work any better than the locals.

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

While the blue line goes to ohare it does not go to the northern suburbs.

That's exactly why the 215 and 641 buses were proposed.

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

I think while the edens express is nice they are losing focus on who goes to old orchard in bulk. It's not the 54a riders that's been established already.

Then who are they? If they are from Avondale, 641 helps them.

 

10 hours ago, artthouwill said:

Pace is trying to streamline it's routes.  

That's exactly what the Final Report says. (1) stronger grid--i.e. buses go NS or EW, (2) reduce duplication, i.e.--cancel 205, (3) better connections, i.e,--Jefferson Park and Glen Metra, and (4) serve demand while conserving resources--i.e.don't serve segments with only 22 riders/day.

[BusHunter]

13 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The shoulder authorization ends at Foster. Jeff Park is on the Blue Line, and why in the world would they want to get the bus stuck for 20 minutes at the Edens Jct.?

 

Again, a total mistake. Why would Pace now want to compete with the Blue Line, for a 1 hour trip that would take 25 by L? The express lanes don't work any better than the locals.

That's exactly why the 215 and 641 buses were proposed.

Then who are they? If they are from Avondale, 641 helps them.

 

That's exactly what the Final Report says. (1) stronger grid--i.e. buses go NS or EW, (2) reduce duplication, i.e.--cancel 205, (3) better connections, i.e,--Jefferson Park and Glen Metra, and (4) serve demand while conserving resources--i.e.don't serve segments with only 22 riders/day.

Yeah but busjack then why isn't droves of riders riding 54a. It is the prototype to this kind of ns service. People have adjusted to yellow/purple line service. Basically they'll have to reprogram there brains or lure them to the other service. So it's an uphill climb. Good luck Pace. 

Btw, has ridership increased on the i90 corridor. I bet it has out to woodfield/nwtc but I don't know about out to Elgin or randall. One is competing with Metra which is faster and one seems like a long drive. Pace has to ask itself how many people are coming from that far west to go to blue line or downtown.