Fox Valley Division - Changes & Restructuring

[Busjack]

32 minutes ago, rotjohns said:

Pace has got to know this route isn't a money maker for them and I just can't see it lasting.

Your 714 reference probably is the answer, 722 probably has a grant to build ridership, and if it doesn't build ridership, Pace will ask the communities to kick in. Unlike 714 serving COD (and whitefish) and unlike Streamwood kicking in to save 554, I'm not aware of any community with any interest in 722.

[Pace831]

9 hours ago, rotjohns said:

So today, I decided to make a switch and take a different route to Naperville.  Normally, I take route 463 to Metra DG, then take that train to Naperville, but that option is pricey due to the raised Metra prices.  Today, I took 463 to Metra DG, but then got on the 834 from there to Ogden/Main in DG, then eventually got on 722 to Naperville Metra (bus was about 5 minutes late).  I was one of 2 people on this bus and I was all alone after Warrenville/Yackley in Lisle.  I must be truthful, this is a route that I don't think last thru the end of the summer.  I've seen empty buses on this route a lot during the day, both peak and off-peak.  The routing on Warrenville Road is redundant with 829 and 888, both are rush hour buses.  Why would anyone need to go into that area after 9am?  When I take the train and get to the Lisle stop just before 8am, at least 10-15 people get on route 829, going the same direction as the 722. So that tells me that people that live in the city and work in Lisle/Naperville would rather take Metra, not go to Yorktown and then get on 722.  In the past, I didn't see a lot of people get on the 714 when it used to run down Ogden, not even COD students, could be one of the reason why the route changed.  In the afternoons when I get to Naperville Metra, I almost always see 714 and 722 waiting.  714, usually 3-5 people are on that bus.  722:  maybe 1 person?  Today, when I got off at my stop near the Naperville Metra, I asked the driver if this route gets busy often, she said "nope, I rarely see more than 3 people on this run and I've never seen you on here before."  Says a lot.  Pace has got to know this route isn't a money maker for them and I just can't see it lasting.

When they started 722, I was surprised they made it every 30 minutes throughout the day. This just confirms there is more service than necessary. RTAMS won't load at the moment, but I recall the daily ridership was about 150. From what you said, it sounds like most of them are rush hour riders who have other options anyway. I don't think Pace will cut the entire route just yet, but may reduce service if ridership has plateaued.

Have you noticed whether there are any transfers between 722 & 530?

[MetroShadow]

16 hours ago, Pace831 said:

When they started 722, I was surprised they made it every 30 minutes throughout the day. This just confirms there is more service than necessary. RTAMS won't load at the moment, but I recall the daily ridership was about 150. From what you said, it sounds like most of them are rush hour riders who have other options anyway. I don't think Pace will cut the entire route just yet, but may reduce service if ridership has plateaued.

Have you noticed whether there are any transfers between 722 & 530?

147 as of January.

Its a start, but usually with grant funded projects (or any new service) would take years to generate. To maybe get 60% of the service class average would be a good performance measurement goal (on ridership/productivity), but at that point, stronger marketing can (and maybe will) help.

I'll also preface that by saying that a trip by trip analysis would be needed to see if the concentration is only limited to rush hour or spread across the entire day. Saturday service doesn't look terrible, but at 30 minute intervals can realize that service could be scaled back. (I'll also venture a guess that hourly midday service would probably be helpful too).

[Busjack]

15 minutes ago, MetroShadow said:

Its a start, but usually with grant funded projects (or any new service) would take years to generate.

Usually (again based on 714) CMAQ provides 3 years. I'm not sure what was used to fund this, but Pace did say it sunk $1 million into the DuPage improvements.

15 minutes ago, MetroShadow said:

I'll also preface that by saying that a trip by trip analysis would be needed to see if the concentration is only limited to rush hour or spread across the entire day.

Again, what Pace uses through the ITS data. For instance, when they cut midday service on 240-241, they said there were only 8 riders. Similar thing at the board meeting about 465 that there were so many Ventra taps (half of what was required). Either way, the stats are within the Pace planning dept's possession.

Also, on the "should they be serving Warrenville" comment, I'm sure that's no different from when Pace cut certain Barclay Blvd. routings from 272.

[rotjohns]

16 hours ago, Pace831 said:

When they started 722, I was surprised they made it every 30 minutes throughout the day. This just confirms there is more service than necessary. RTAMS won't load at the moment, but I recall the daily ridership was about 150. From what you said, it sounds like most of them are rush hour riders who have other options anyway. I don't think Pace will cut the entire route just yet, but may reduce service if ridership has plateaued.

Have you noticed whether there are any transfers between 722 & 530?

I can't say for sure if there have been some transfers between the 2 routes.  I'll try to watch for this later this week.  722 is usually empty when I've seen it pull into the Naperville Metra Station around 8am and around 5:30pm when I'm usually there whereas 530 usually has at least 1-2 riders, but they mostly transfer to 714, I assume to go to COD. 

30 minutes for 722 is way too much, I could see hourly. 

[west towns]

Ogden avenue is one of dupage county's transit corridors in their public transit plan according to rtams.org.   so it appears dupage has a bigger role in this than pace.     I would say this route are the seeds for future growth and it will be difficult to cut the route since dupage is behind it.  Route should run further east then go north on 83 to oak brook.

[Busjack]

48 minutes ago, west towns said:

I would say this route are the seeds for future growth and it will be difficult to cut the route since dupage is behind it.

As I mentioned, DuPage was also behind 714, so if the two are analogous, Pace will be coming back to DuPage for more money if ridership doesn't eventually meet standards.