Return of the 11 & 31 Bus

[Juniorz]

Route 11 pilot to receive a 90 day extension at the June meeting. 

[renardo870]

8 hours ago, Juniorz said:

Route 11 pilot to receive a 90 day extension at the June meeting. 

That was to be expected. I wonder if the 11 could be tweaked so it could extend to North/Clark to connect with the 22, 36, 72, 73, 156, the Chicago History Museum and the adjacent Lincoln Park Zoo. Just a thought.

[sw4400]

13 hours ago, Juniorz said:

Route 11 pilot to receive a 90 day extension at the June meeting. 

That's the second extension they've granted #11. CTA must be hesitant to pull the service if the numbers aren't indeed there, for risk of a backlash from Ald. Pawar and the people who live in the affected area. I don't see the numbers on the bus when I do see one driving on Lincoln. If anything, pulling the service the first time may have done this section in.

[sw4400]

4 hours ago, renardo870 said:

That was to be expected. I wonder if the 11 could be tweaked so it could extend to North/Clark to connect with the 22, 36, 72, 73, 156, the Chicago History Museum and the adjacent Lincoln Park Zoo. Just a thought.

#11 Lincoln did at one point go all the way south to North/Clark. That would be a valid connection point to terminate the south service, but that has been taken over by #37 Sedgwick I believe. When the route was #11 Lincoln/Sedgwick, it terminated at the Clinton Blue Line station.

[dann]

50 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

#11 Lincoln did at one point go all the way south to North/Clark. That would be a valid connection point to terminate the south service, but that has been taken over by #37 Sedgwick I believe. When the route was #11 Lincoln/Sedgwick, it terminated at the Clinton Blue Line station.

I don't understand why the #37 and #11 were separated, though I'll admit I didn't see the ridership numbers for the combined Lincoln/Sedgwick. When those two routes were combined I don't recall any service complaints, except maybe occasional long waits for buses during inclement weather. Maybe NP didn't want to deal with another long route?

[sw4400]

23 minutes ago, dann said:

I don't understand why the #37 and #11 were separated, though I'll admit I didn't see the ridership numbers for the combined Lincoln/Sedgwick. When those two routes were combined I don't recall any service complaints, except maybe occasional long waits for buses during inclement weather. Maybe NP didn't want to deal with another long route?

Because the CTA at the time decided that there was not enough ridership on Lincoln between Fullerton(Red/Brown/Purple) and Western(Brown), so they cut the service, with #11 Lincoln running from Western(Brown) to Howard/McCormick and #37 Sedgwick running from Fullerton(Red/Brown/Purple) to Clinton(Blue). This is probably what will cause Lincoln to not be restored in the original cut areas..... it was gone way too long to get it's numbers from before back. And that's sad, because the businesses in this area could use the transit boost, and many have no doubt seen a drop in sales and services done since the cut occurred.

As someone who took the #11 in the past, the service was a long wait at times.... average wait time for a #11 was 18-25 minutes. But when the route was TMC's when they were on their last legs, wait time averaged 22-35 minutes(I seen several signed "Not In Service" heading back to North Park. One such stalled on Lincoln heading North to the garage... thankfully the driver got it running again, only to have it stall out just across the street again. The driver got it running again, revving it to get the engine running again. The tech in the van following it switched with the Bus Operator to drive it back in(#4456 if I recall the number correctly)

[XE NewFlyer]

9 hours ago, sw4400 said:

Because the CTA at the time decided that there was not enough ridership on Lincoln between Fullerton(Red/Brown/Purple) and Western(Brown), so they cut the service, with #11 Lincoln running from Western(Brown) to Howard/McCormick and #37 Sedgwick running from Fullerton(Red/Brown/Purple) to Clinton(Blue). This is probably what will cause Lincoln to not be restored in the original cut areas..... it was gone way too long to get it's numbers from before back. And that's sad, because the businesses in this area could use the transit boost, and many have no doubt seen a drop in sales and services done since the cut occurred.

As someone who took the #11 in the past, the service was a long wait at times.... average wait time for a #11 was 18-25 minutes. But when the route was TMC's when they were on their last legs, wait time averaged 22-35 minutes(I seen several signed "Not In Service" heading back to North Park. One such stalled on Lincoln heading North to the garage... thankfully the driver got it running again, only to have it stall out just across the street again. The driver got it running again, revving it to get the engine running again. The tech in the van following it switched with the Bus Operator to drive it back in(#4456 if I recall the number correctly)

If the 11 was split into the 11 western Brown to Howard and McCormick and 37 Clinton Blue and Fullerton Red wouldn't the 37 Run every day instead of weekdays only

[Juniorz]

13 hours ago, sw4400 said:

That's the second extension they've granted #11. CTA must be hesitant to pull the service if the numbers aren't indeed there, for risk of a backlash from Ald. Pawar and the people who live in the affected area. I don't see the numbers on the bus when I do see one driving on Lincoln. If anything, pulling the service the first time may have done this section in.

That political pressure must be hard to see this succeed. For this to happen, a final decision should happen "now" but September we'll know the route's fate.

[Busjack]

@Juniorz must have his connections, but here's the official word.

[jajuan]

On 6/7/2017 at 8:56 AM, Busjack said:

There is a chicken and egg element to it, but essentially effective back to 1970s, the TA is not going to put service on a route if there is inadequate demand. For instance, 93 is 4 blocks away and runs every 25-30 minutes, and doesn't run Sunday, so nobody rides it Sunday. Somebody is riding 11 Sunday, but it is down.Doesn't mean CTA should increase frequency.

On the other hand, 66 and 79 run every 8 to 10 minutes on Sunday. 79 is down 8.9% Dec. to Dec. and 66 is down 15.5%. You arguing that 11 and 66 are equivalent as far as it being "too inconvenient to wait for a bus?" Average bus boardings systemwide are down 14.8% on Sunday. Something else is going on. The Executive Summary attributed it to "Ridership was lower than normal in December due to some below average temperatures and weekend snow events."

No in that instance I'm not arguing anything other than what I actually said, which is average CTA riders outside of us and our forum or the transit advocates who go to CTA asking for new or extra services are not looking CTA services in the same analytical way that we do.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, jajuan said:

No in that instance I'm not arguing anything other than what I actually said, which is average CTA riders outside of us and our forum or the transit advocates who go to CTA asking for new or extra services are not looking CTA services in the same analytical way that we do.

No, they are just calling Lyft, paratransit, Divvying, or walking. One can now be exceptionally lazy and get Uber Eats to bring McDonalds.

[jajuan]

Well the 11 extension won't be cut at the start of summer pick. The Trib reports today that the CTA board voted to give the route 90 more days to get it together along the extension before deciding whether to keep it or give it the ax. 

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, jajuan said:

Well the 11 extension won't be cut at the start of summer pick. The Trib reports today that the CTA board voted to give the route 90 more days to get it together along the extension before deciding whether to keep it or give it the ax. 

Not news; see starting with @Juniorz's post.

[jajuan]

23 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Not news; see starting with @Juniorz's post.

Ah okay I missed his post since I've been pretty busy as of late and only really had time to respond to your other members' post that quoted mine. So I'm still catching up on some of the other stuff I missed.  Oh well just means the Trib is late in reporting it since its article about it is dated today, and Juniorz's post is from Monday. I agree with him though that the political pressure must be great for them to make the decision. From the thrust of the article that political pressure must be the seniors in the areas served by the extension much as has mainly been the case all along from the start when CTA first announced and instituted the extension. 

[Juniorz]

Route 31 gets basically another of year service. A final decision on Route 31 will be made March 2018!

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?CategoryId=2&&ArticleId=3667

[Busjack]

On 7/9/2017 at 10:29 PM, Juniorz said:

Route 31 gets basically another of year service. A final decision on Route 31 will be made March 2018!

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?CategoryId=2&&ArticleId=3667

Note, the Press Release refers to "...following healthy demand for the service from customers."

But also, it doesn't say "final decision" as it says "At the end of the #31 pilot in March 2018, CTA will determine whether to conclude the pilot, extend it or make the service permanent."

[Juniorz]

20 hours ago, Busjack said:

Note, the Press Release refers to "...following healthy demand for the service from customers."

But also, it doesn't say "final decision" as it says "At the end of the #31 pilot in March 2018, CTA will determine whether to conclude the pilot, extend it or make the service permanent."

Basically, a final decision lol. The 11 extension will learn its fate in September.

[jajuan]

On 7/15/2017 at 8:48 AM, Juniorz said:

Basically, a final decision lol. The 11 extension will learn its fate in September.

Not necessarily. Some routes existing today that started as new services within the last 15 to 20 years went through up to four 180 day experiment phases before finally being deemed permanent even when it was obvious that the routes were outperforming the experiment parameters. If I'm not mistaken, CTA didn't designate the Pink Line a permanently separate route from the Blue Line until about 2008, close to two years after its 2006 introduction. 

[Busjack]

27 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Not necessarily. Some routes existing today that started as new services within the last 15 to 20 years went through up to four 180 day experiment phases before finally being deemed permanent even when it was obvious that the routes were outperforming the experiment parameters.

That happened at least for whatever was done with 145/148, and not even that turned out to be permanent. So long as the board keeps approving experiments, they are experiments.

[jajuan]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

That happened at least for whatever was done with 145/148, and not even that turned out to be permanent. So long as the board keeps approving experiments, they are experiments.

Right. 145 is now a memory and 148 was pulled off Wilson and essentially changed to what was the 144 with the main differences being buses now start and end on Marine between Carmen and WInona, operation on that stretch of Clarendon between Irving Park and Lawrence, and articulated buses running most of PM rush services while 144 rarely used artics.

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, jajuan said:

Right. 145 is now a memory and 148 was pulled off Wilson and essentially changed to what was the 144 with the main differences being buses now start and end on Marine between Carmen and WInona, operation on that stretch of Clarendon between Irving Park and Lawrence, and articulated buses running most of PM rush services while 144 rarely used artics.

That was my point as to "not even that was permanent." I was initially referring to all the messing around about 2003-2005, such as people around Belmont complaining they only had 146, and 145 being split into 145 and 148.

[jajuan]

50 minutes ago, Busjack said:

That was my point as to "not even that was permanent." I was initially referring to all the messing around about 2003-2005, such as people around Belmont complaining they only had 146, and 145 being split into 145 and 148.

I know. I just fleshed it out some for those who  might have been kids at that time or just recently moved to Chicago. It did essentially come back full circle since now all they have really is 146 again. 135 also if they want to count rush hour for any of those in the highrises going to Wacker or La Salle, which they also had in that 2003-2005 stretch but didn't want to count.

[Juniorz]

Well, the cta has publicly announced that a decision for the 11 extension would be decided by the fall.

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, Juniorz said:

Well, the cta has publicly announced that a decision for the 11 extension would be decided by the fall.

Doing a search for Lincoln on transtchicago.com indicates they haven't officially. Ordinance 016-144 for another 180 days was in Dec.The corresponding press release says until June, and it it is now July. So if you have a public announcement, please post a link.But the public appearance is that staff is exceeding its authority.

[Juniorz]

Let's stick to facts, 90 days and either the 11 is in or out.

Based on the evidence, the agency has the numbers to either keep piloting or consider their loses.

It is what it is, no need to justify the case anymore. 

In September, the fate of the 11 will be decided.