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BusHunter

Autonomous Buses and Other Autonomous Vehicles

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Bringing this back in BH 's direction, there was just a story in the news that Google admitted it was at fault in a collision with a bus, because its car unexpectedly changed lanes (web source).

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2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Bringing this back in BH 's direction, there was just a story in the news that Google admitted it was at fault in a collision with a bus, because its car unexpectedly changed lanes (web source).

I don't see how a company doesn't open themselves up to be sued out of business. A big company, Pan Am, (lockerbie, 1988) was sued when it was discovered they were not doing baggage checks (every rider attached to a bag) that had been put in place since the Air India crash in '85. They filed for bankruptcy and went out of business.

Unfortunately the real test happens when this technology hits the millions of drivers out there.

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4 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I don't see how a company doesn't open themselves up to be sued out of business. A big company, Pan Am, (lockerbie, 1988) was sued when it was discovered they were not doing baggage checks (every rider attached to a bag) that had been put in place since the Air India crash in '85. They filed for bankruptcy and went out of business.

Unfortunately the real test happens when this technology hits the millions of drivers out there.

This accident at 2 m.p.h. apparently caused only damage to Google's vehicle.

However, most car magazines say that the main deterrent to implementing the technology is fear of potential liability.

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1 hour ago, Busjack said:

This accident at 2 m.p.h. apparently caused only damage to Google's vehicle.

The same article I posted a link to yesterday, which either you didn't notice or the link didn't work again, notes that the articulation joint of the bus, which was moving 15 MPH, had minor damage.

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6 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

The same article I posted a link to yesterday, which either you didn't notice or the link didn't work again, notes that the articulation joint of the bus, which was moving 15 MPH, had minor damage.

Sorry, I missed that. Link by itself wasn't enough to gain my limited attention.:O TV news was.

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On 3/1/2016 at 3:08 PM, Busjack said:

This accident at 2 m.p.h. apparently caused only damage to Google's vehicle.

However, most car magazines say that the main deterrent to implementing the technology is fear of potential liability.

They had on one of the chicago news outlets yesterday that they are testing a fully autonomous Ford Fusion in Arizona. I can't seem to find the story online but Cronkite news in Arizona has an interesting link:

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2016/03/02/ford-autonomous/

Here's a test of it in the snow just over a month ago

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/ownership/autonomous-ford-fusion-hybrid-snow-testing/vi-BBoiWlB?refvid=BBomHKm

They claim it's using 3D mapping of it's surroundings to drive autonomously. I just hope we're not going to have to drive around with those beacons on top. Somehow that reminds me of Robby the Robot on Lost In Space with his little gyros and stuff.. :P

 

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Since this is sort of a technology thread, I was reading about Tesla wanting to bring out the Tesla Model 3. It's supposed to be unveiled this month/next week. It's supposed to retail for 35K and Tesla is taking pre orders. They anticipate 500,000 car sales on this one model by 2020. Chevy is trying to disrupt their thunder with the Bolt, another electric car coming late this year as a 2017 model. I think if Tesla can really sell that many cars it will have an effect on the entire auto market. Everyone else will be forced to release electrics or face having diminished sales. One would think maybe they couldn't sell 500K cars, but if they can sell hoardes of model S' retailing at above 70K, maybe it is possible.

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4 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Since this is sort of a technology thread, I was reading about Tesla wanting to bring out the Tesla Model 3. It's supposed to be unveiled this month/next week. It's supposed to retail for 35K and Tesla is taking pre orders. They anticipate 500,000 car sales on this one model by 2020. Chevy is trying to disrupt their thunder with the Bolt, another electric car coming late this year as a 2017 model. I think if Tesla can really sell that many cars it will have an effect on the entire auto market. Everyone else will be forced to release electrics or face having diminished sales. One would think maybe they couldn't sell 500K cars, but if they can sell hoards of model S' retailing at above 70K, maybe it is possible.

If Tesla is a success, it's going to force the electric utilities, like ComEd, to have 3 phase, 480 volt service to houses, so that people can recharge their cars at home in 30 minutes or less. Using 240 volts takes several hours to recharge.

And it will require separate meters, so a "fuel tax" can be applied to electric cars.

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3 hours ago, strictures said:

If Tesla is a success, it's going to force the electric utilities, like ComEd, to have 3 phase, 480 volt service to houses, so that people can recharge their cars at home in 30 minutes or less. Using 240 volts takes several hours to recharge.

And it will require separate meters, so a "fuel tax" can be applied to electric cars.

The first would require major rewiring. They just rewired my community association (and it really needed it) but it still was one wire to the pad transformer. My understanding is that kind of service is the three transformers on one pole, or three 7.2Kv drops. Currently (pun intended) the best being offered to consumers is 240v (there was a demonstration on Motorweek this week)

Since theoretically you can plug in the 240 anywhere there is a 240 outlet, most of what they talk about taxes is something plugged into the car's gps.

However, the economics for electric cars might not be there, considering how much electricity has gone up in the past two years (mine, which used to be on municipal aggregation, went up from about 0.048/kwh to 0.070) compared to what gasoline prices have gone down about 50%. Same like buying a 2.0T car (which supposedly was going to be the standard)  no longer pays when premium is 90 cents more a gallon than 87 octane.

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6 hours ago, strictures said:

If Tesla is a success, it's going to force the electric utilities, like ComEd, to have 3 phase, 480 volt service to houses, so that people can recharge their cars at home in 30 minutes or less. Using 240 volts takes several hours to recharge.

And it will require separate meters, so a "fuel tax" can be applied to electric cars.

I don't think it would really be appropriate to tax an electric car because it's cleaning the environment. That would be like taxing someone to have a no smoking area. Between the big three Chevy, Nissan and Tesla they claim they have eliminated over 1.5 million tons of co2 emissions out of the air. Plus they have these pull up chargers, how would you tax that?

What really needs to get taxed is the foreign car market. They have surpassed american cars on the road and everytime someone purchases one they are supporting foreign countries. If this keeps up soon there won't be an american car.

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7 hours ago, BusHunter said:

I don't think it would really be appropriate to tax an electric car because it's cleaning the environment. That would be like taxing someone to have a no smoking area. Between the big three Chevy, Nissan and Tesla they claim they have eliminated over 1.5 million tons of co2 emissions out of the air. Plus they have these pull up chargers, how would you tax that?

The issue is that they still use the road. With more fuel efficient cars, it is hard enough for the gas tax to pay for highway construction AND TRANSIT. So, unless some tax mechanism is developed (and one was suggested above), the Bolt will sink into a pothole.

 

7 hours ago, BusHunter said:

What really needs to get taxed is the foreign car market. They have surpassed american cars on the road and everytime someone purchases one they are supporting foreign countries.

Most major foreign brands (Toyota, Honda, Hyundai) assemblle theiir cars in the U.S. Ford and Chrysler assemble cars in Mexico. So how is that going to work?

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Simple you tax ford for making a car out of US because it is now a foreign car. They are moving to mexico for cheap labor so if they were taxed on every sale maybe they would think twice about it.

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1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Simple you tax ford for making a car out of US because it is now a foreign car. They are moving to mexico for cheap labor so if they were taxed on every sale maybe they would think twice about it.

NAFTA.

Also, consider that FCA is actually an Italian company (or a subsidiary of one). This isn't easy.

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On 21 April 2016 at 1:06 PM, Busjack said:

Story that Elon Musk is working on the autonomous bus or something like it.

Some details from Tesla's updated master plan released yesterday:

In addition to consumer vehicles, there are two other types of electric vehicle needed: heavy-duty trucks and high passenger-density urban transport. Both are in the early stages of development at Tesla and should be ready for unveiling next year. We believe the Tesla Semi will deliver a substantial reduction in the cost of cargo transport, while increasing safety and making it really fun to operate.

With the advent of autonomy, it will probably make sense to shrink the size of buses and transition the role of bus driver to that of fleet manager. Traffic congestion would improve due to increased passenger areal density by eliminating the center aisle and putting seats where there are currently entryways, and matching acceleration and braking to other vehicles, thus avoiding the inertial impedance to smooth traffic flow of traditional heavy buses. It would also take people all the way to their destination. Fixed summon buttons at existing bus stops would serve those who don't have a phone. Design accommodates wheelchairs, strollers and bikes.

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They still got a ways to go on this. People are complaining now there teslas are not holding a lane in traffic. One supposedly drove off the highway. The civil liabilities may end up being a big concern for these fortune 500 companies.

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2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

They still got a ways to go on this. People are complaining now there teslas are not holding a lane in traffic. One supposedly drove off the highway. The civil liabilities may end up being a big concern for these fortune 500 companies.

You must have missed the stories about the Tesla driver killed in a collision with a truck (Google references).

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2 hours ago, Busjack said:

You must have missed the stories about the Tesla driver killed in a collision with a truck (Google references).

Ouch. There's only so much liability anyone can stand. Even fortune 500 companies can plunder. Gawker magazine can tell us all about it.

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1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Ouch. There's only so much liability anyone can stand. Even fortune 500 companies can plunder. Gawker magazine can tell us all about it.

This isn't anything compared to what all the Takata air bag litigation is going to cost (deaths, mostly in Honda Civics). However, just about anything. including Gawker, can be quantified, in that case by the click count. Also, I've mentioned the Digital Millennium Copyright Act here before, and it was reported that Gawker could have minimized the damages by taking down the video.

To get back to your original point, Car and Driver said Tesla did better in the lane departure test than other semiautonomous cars.

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What keeps Gawker from reorganizing into say looksee magazine? I don't know if it could be a ploy or not to avoid litigation. But probably it's founder or CEO would have to be a silent partner in the reorg. But really these judgements are crazy no one has 140 mill except maybe Elon Musk. 

Back on the point however, if tesla did better with a few fatalities I'd hate see what worst is. xD

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12 hours ago, BusHunter said:

What keeps Gawker from reorganizing into say looksee magazine? I

Nothing to do with buses, but you can search for "Gawwker Bankruptcy," which is a Chapter 11 reorganization proceeding.

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16 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Back on the point however, if tesla did better with a few fatalities I'd hate see what worst is.

None had any fatalities at the moment of publication, but the article said that Infinity and BMW lost the path where the lane markers were worn and at merge lanes. MB may be the converse of autopilot, ad the  MB has a nanny who will beep you if your hands are off the steering wheel for 12 seconds.

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