DuPage restructuring

[Busjack]

There's a Public Hearing notice of restructuring in DuPage County. While most of it deals with combining feeders, it says that Route 722 mentioned in the Fox Valley restructuring will replace 829 Lisle-Naperville Office Corridor (Corpotetum),

[garmon757]

5 minutes ago, Busjack said:

There's a Public Hearing notice of restructuring in DuPage County. While most of it deals with combining feeders, it says that Route 722 mentioned in the Fox Valley restructuring will replace 829 Lisle-Naperville Office Corridor (Corpotetum),

Do you want me to keep this topic like it is or move it to "Fox Valley Division - Changes & Restructuring" topic?

[Pace831]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

There's a Public Hearing notice of restructuring in DuPage County. While most of it deals with combining feeders, it says that Route 722 mentioned in the Fox Valley restructuring will replace 829 Lisle-Naperville Office Corridor (Corpotetum),

Good to see 722 is being mentioned again, but I'm surprised nothing has been said about 559. The only adverse effect to these changes that I can think of is the connection between 824/825 and 829 being lost, but the handful of people who do that can take 834 & 722 instead. Looking at the RTAMS ridership data for these routes, I think a case could be made for 824/825 to be combined.

[Busjack]

18 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

The only adverse effect to these changes that I can think of is the connection between 824/825 and 829 being lost

At the moment, and probably until the hearing, there doesn't seem any proposed map or schedule for 722. The only inference from the hearing notice is that 722 won't be straight down Ogden, but will serve Warrenville Road and the train stations.

Having seen operations at the train station, I haven't noticed in the p.m. people getting off 829 to get to the other feeders; 829 just dumps passengers at the station and leaves, and the passengers go to the platform. Apparently, instead of leaving empty, it will head to Yorktown.

[Pace831]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

At the moment, and probably until the hearing, there doesn't seem any proposed map or schedule for 722. The only inference from the hearing notice is that 722 won't be straight down Ogden, but will serve Warrenville Road and the train stations.

Having seen operations at the train station, I haven't noticed in the p.m. people getting off 829 to get to the other feeders; 829 just dumps passengers at the station and leaves, and the passengers go to the platform. Apparently, instead of leaving empty, it will head to Yorktown.

Here is the proposed map for 722, from the Fox Valley Restructuring. It does get closer to the Lisle station than I remembered, and basically duplicates 829. I guess they could have 722 rush hour trips that pull in the train station and/or short trips that are basically 829 with a new number.

I haven't seen the operations myself, but I mentioned  824/825 (and should have added 820, 826-828) because the transfer opportunity is mentioned in the maps.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Pace831 said:

Here is the proposed map for 722, from the Fox Valley Restructuring. It does get closer to the Lisle station than I remembered, and basically duplicates 829.

Yes, it covers most of 829, and I'm sure routing it into the station is no big deal.

[Pace831]

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 8:40 PM, Busjack said:

Yes, it covers most of 829, and I'm sure routing it into the station is no big deal.

Proposed maps and schedules have been posted, confirming that some rush hour 722 trips will serve the Lisle station. This includes some short trips that are carried over from the 829 schedule, to be operated by First Student-Westmont.

[Busjack]

37 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Proposed maps and schedules have been posted, confirming that some rush hour 722 trips will serve the Lisle station. This includes some short trips that are carried over from the 829 schedule, to be operated by First Student-Westmont.

Thanks for finding this.

The best I can figure out:

• 464 is essentially terminated, as (except for the added trip) 821 is duplicative. Maybe the historic explanation is that 464 was a DG route and 821 a Lisle one.
• Looks like the old 688 becomes the tail end of the old 689.
• The notation that short trips on 722 will be operated by First Student: Does that mean that 722 itself will be operated by Fox Valley? What will be the source of the equipment? Are the cuts in DG and Naperville enough to cover it? Maybe, as the schedule indicates 2 buses would be needed.

[Pace831]

11 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The notation that short trips on 722 will be operated by First Student: Does that mean that 722 itself will be operated by Fox Valley. What will be the source of the equipment? Are the cuts in DG and Naperville enough to cover it?

I assume 722 is to be operated by FV since it was first proposed during the restructuring. Looking back at the FV restructuring thread, the FV has 29 buses of which 5 are spares. BusHunter's roster shows 2765 is there too, but it's not on WebWatch right now so I can't confirm. The roster also has 22 buses at FS-Westmont and 38 at FS-Naperville. My count of the buses needed for the affected routes:

Current:
462 - 2 (FS-W)
464 - 1 (FS-W)
684 - 1 (FS-N)
686 - 1 (FS-N)
688 - 1 (FS-N)
689 - 1 (FS-N)
821 - 2 (FS-W)
829 - 3 (FS-W)
Total 12 (8 FS-W, 4 FS-N)

Proposed:
462 - 2 (FS-W)
684 - 2 (FS-N)
688 - 2 (FS-N)
722 - 6 (4 FV & 2 FS-W)
821 - 2 (FS-W)
829 - 1 (FS-W)
Total 15 (4 FV, 7 FS-W, 4 FS-N)

By my count, FV should need 28 buses to operate all routes they are responsible for, and FS-W and FS-N both need 21. Factoring in a 15% spare ratio brings those numbers up to 33, 25, and 25, respectively (total 83). Currently, according to BusHunter's roster, they have 30, 22, and 38, the latter of which is seemingly too high to be correct. Am I missing something? If not, First Student Naperville is where the extra buses are.

[Busjack]

48 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

f not, First Student Naperville is where the extra buses are.

I figured that, but also that 462 still has the same number of buses, but 464 no longer needs one.

At least they helped us by putting on the DG schedules either Bus A or B.

My rough  count is that FS Naperville has 2600, 2635 and 2660-2695, which checks out as 38.

[Busjack]

19 hours ago, Busjack said:

Maybe, as the schedule indicates 2 buses would be needed.

Correction, 30 minute service on weekdays indicates 4.

[west towns]

 we'll find out more at the public hearings next week

[Busjack]

Moving Forward says this is scheduled for the Apr. 13 board meeting, and to be implemented tentatively in June.

[renardo870]

Has anyone checked out any of the meetings for the DuPage Restructuring?

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, renardo870 said:

Has anyone checked out any of the meetings for the DuPage Restructuring?

There really isn't a point, since Pace published the "map boards" already.* That kind of meeting (and I have been to others of that type) are quickly reduced to "good job Pace" or "The bus is not stopping in front of my house." Here about the only possible complaint is that someone who rides 688 would be at the tail end of 689.

*Contrasting it to the early days of the North Shore restructuring 12 years ago, where plans were in flux for quite a while.

[renardo870]

Any word on the DuPage Restructuring from the Pace Meeting for the Summer 2016 Changes?

[renardo870]

I found some information to my own question 

[Busjack]

Only thing surprising here is that they said no changes to 829, even though it was mostly duplicative of 722.

Others seem marginal, such as the 684 and 689 trip replacing route 183.

[Pace831]

45 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Only thing surprising here is that they said no changes to 829, even though it was mostly duplicative of 722.

Others seem marginal, such as the 684 and 689 trip replacing route 183.

I don't see the problem people have with 722 either, since it would meet all the same trains as 829 does now, plus two evening trains. Maybe the people complaining were all going to Alcatel-Lucent or Navistar where they'd have to walk a little farther from bus to building. So can we assume 722 won't be serving Lisle Metra during the rush, or that First Student Westmont will need 2 more buses than my original count because of 829 being kept?

[Busjack]

13 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Maybe the people complaining were all going to Alcatel-Lucent or Navistar where they'd have to walk a little farther

Since you brought it up, that's the only thing that makes sense. Might also have been that those companies were subsidizing the route.

Obviously, First Student-Westmont keeps the Lisle buses it has; the only question is whether Pace was  counting on those buses for 722, but the Naperville and Downers Grove cuts should have been sufficient by my calculation.

[Pace831]

4 hours ago, Pace831 said:

First Student Westmont will need 2 more buses than my original count because of 829 being kept?

Answering my own question because I didn't think about it before, the answer is no because the 722 short trips and 829 are basically the same. However, when I went back and looked at the proposed schedules, I thought FS-W should have only needed one bus for 722 so I wasn't sure why I thought it was 2 buses. Then looking closer at the document, it appears they updated it to reflect the public hearing changes for 462, 684, and 688, but not 722/829, so I'm not sure what to think.

4 hours ago, Busjack said:

Obviously, First Student-Westmont keeps the Lisle buses it has; the only question is whether Pace was  counting on those buses for 722, but the Naperville and Downers Grove cuts should have been sufficient by my calculation.

Other than 464 being eliminated, which should mean one fewer bus for FS-W to operate, this is more of a reallocation than a cut. As for what buses will (presumably) FV get for 722, we'll just have to wait and see. Although I wonder if 2601 will be in the mix since you said it will probably be leaving Niles and fits numerically with buses already at FS.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Pace831 said:

I thought FS-W should have only needed one bus for 722 so I wasn't sure why I thought it was 2 buses.

The proposal (see link you provided earlier in the thread) was that First Student would only do the Molex trip, and some 722 trips to Central Park, but 829 currently takes two buses. 722 (as the new Naperville to Yorktown through trip) needs 4 buses in any event.

 

2 hours ago, Pace831 said:

Other than 464 being eliminated, which should mean one fewer bus for FS-W to operate, this is more of a reallocation than a cut.

Only one bus from FS-W, but I was also counting 4 buses from FS-Naperville resulting from essentially cutting 686 and 688. Based on experience, it usually takes 2 buses to do a Naperville route, sort of reinforced by that it takes about a half hour to go between the far end  (and then add back time to get back to the original starting point), but trains arrive outbound in the afternoon about every 22 minutes. The proposed Naperville schedules show buses A and B.

[Pace831]

19 hours ago, Busjack said:

829 currently takes two buses

I observed all the affected routes on WebWatch tonight. 2800 did the first trip, which interlined with 825. 2794 did the 2nd and 4th trips, 2803 did the 3rd. 2795 did the two Molex trips. So yes, 2 buses for the regular route if you don't count the interlined first trip plus one bus for Molex.

19 hours ago, Busjack said:

it usually takes 2 buses to do a Naperville route

Also confirmed by WebWatch, which would explain why my original count was way off. I was also looking mostly at the morning schedules, which might only use one bus. So I agree that these changes will provide 4 buses for 722.

[MetroShadow]

Schedule Previews are now out (save for 722):

462/464 and 821 Restructuring

684 and 686

688 and 689

714

 

[Busjack]

722 map and schedule now up.

With 829 left as is, 722 is not going to the Lisle station.