Coming Soon: Prepaid Boarding at Belmont/Blue WB only

[BusHunter]

11 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I didn't  forget about the  30, but it's ridership  is negligible.  Even though the  30 and 71 are EB routes,  they both board in separate  areas on the bus bridge.   I still think  71st  could  benefit from the  prepaid  boarding. 

I think prepaid boarding works best mid route. Operators should have extra time to board passengers at a terminal. What time are they saving sitting still? Now something like a 79th or 87th or 95 would work good on the red line because they are all mid route stops. But there are tons of rail stations that could use this. Fullerton red line has so many boardings on the #74 it can fill a bus by itself. They need some stats on boardings find the busiest rail stationn bus stops and do this. I'm sure it would speed up service.

[sw4400]

Has this prepaid boarding really worked with little/no issues? I still get this thinking some smart-a** is going to find a way to bypass and get a free ride on the bus. A few weeks back after getting off the Brown Line, I saw one such guy who went up the stairs on the other side of the platform where the metal gate and gate door are at. He looked around but didn't apparently see me or just didn't care, and jumped over the fence onto the platform to wait for the next train. I told the Customer Service attendant below, who didn't do nothing.

[artthouwill]

28 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I think prepaid boarding works best mid route. Operators should have extra time to board passengers at a terminal. What time are they saving sitting still? Now something like a 79th or 87th or 95 would work good on the red line because they are all mid route stops. But there are tons of rail stations that could use this. Fullerton red line has so many boardings on the #74 it can fill a bus by itself. They need some stats on boardings find the busiest rail stationn bus stops and do this. I'm sure it would speed up service.

It could  work at a busy terminal   like 95th where the 34 and 119 can leave full.

[artthouwill]

1 minute ago, sw4400 said:

Has this prepaid boarding really worked with little/no issues? I still get this thinking some smart-a** is going to find a way to bypass and get a free ride on the bus. A few weeks back after getting off the Brown Line, I saw one such guy who went up the stairs on the other side of the platform where the metal gate and gate door are at. He looked around but didn't apparently see me or just didn't care, and jumped over the fence onto the platform to wait for the next train. I told the Customer Service attendant below, who didn't do nothing.

I don't know about the  cheaters, but one advantage is that you could possibly  tap your Ventra card before  the 2 get window  expires even if the bus isn't  coming  for another few to several  minutes.  Of course you  have to play the game and  tap just before  your first bus arrives or board conventionally to maximize your time.

[BusHunter]

8 minutes ago, sw4400 said:

Has this prepaid boarding really worked with little/no issues? I still get this thinking some smart-a** is going to find a way to bypass and get a free ride on the bus. A few weeks back after getting off the Brown Line, I saw one such guy who went up the stairs on the other side of the platform where the metal gate and gate door are at. He looked around but didn't apparently see me or just didn't care, and jumped over the fence onto the platform to wait for the next train. I told the Customer Service attendant below, who didn't do nothing.

i see people boarding not paying but usually when there's only one supervisor doing everything. There's also those that see a bus and run to it not even realizing they didn't pay. No one is really standing at the card reader watching what's going on. If I had to say how many were riding free I'd say maybe 3 per bus load or every 100. (3 percent)

There's a lot of fare scamming/theft of service going on. I board at the brown line Spaulding entrance every week when I do my Kimball yard #3200's scan. (Kedzie/Brown line) In a months time which is maybe 20-40 minutes of waiting, I've seen kids walking up the tracks and climbing onto the station at least 3 times. (probably from Roosevelt HS) They have a camera that keeps an eye on that entrance for theft of service via the emergency door. The CA is supposed to be watching that entrance, but they can't see on the ROW. That's dangerous with a potential lawsuit if one of these kids gets cooked by a third rail. I just don't know why they don't do a Wilmette gate on the ROW. They could save themselves a headache in the future.

I'm just surprised they never fixed those emergency doors. They need to put a metal cover or something over the door latch to help restrict it's use. Definitely the weakest link at those brown line stops with auxillary entrances/exits

[Busjack]

Tribune article on this (third item down), which also says that Belmont saved 38 seconds a bus, while the one on the Loop Link only saved 16 and has been discontinued, which would seem to reinforce the following:

On 6/17/2017 at 4:50 PM, BusHunter said:

I think prepaid boarding works best mid route.

Obviously, 38 seconds wouldn't mean anything if the bus is laying over.

[BusHunter]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Tribune article on this (third item down), which also says that Belmont saved 38 seconds a bus, while the one on the Loop Link only saved 16 and has been discontinued, which would seem to reinforce the following:

Obviously, 38 seconds wouldn't mean anything if the bus is laying over.

The point is that prepaid boarding wouldnt work at a terminal. 

[Busjack]

18 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

The point is that prepaid boarding wouldnt work at a terminal. 

It would work anywhere, so long as the paid area were effectively cordoned off, but it wouldn't accomplish anything as far as maintaining the schedule, for reasons you explained.

For instance, Toronto and Boston (Harvard Station) have always had the bus boarding area within the paid area of the rapid transit station, even though Harvard Square is a terminal.Buses have to go through a tunnel portal to get to it.

[BusHunter]

2 minutes ago, Busjack said:

It would work anywhere, so long as the paid area were effectively cordoned off, but it would accomplish anything as far as maintaining the schedule.

That would only be practical at high volume entry points with buses consistently late per the schedule. It wouldnt do nothing with those waiting on a bus to pull out.

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, BusHunter said:

That would only be practical at high volume entry points with buses consistently late per the schedule. It wouldnt do nothing with those waiting on a bus to pull out.

For example, one could put up a fence, gates, and fare barriers on the sidewalk on Milwaukee at Jefferson Park, except that would block access to the Metra station and someone would have to figure out Pace's cut. Could be done at the new 93th station, but won't (again would have to figure out Pace's cut, unless Pace is restricted to the south terminal).

[BusHunter]

Yeah but if the #88 has a 5 minute layover, (Some of these #90's can have a 10-15 minute layover in the evenings) it doesnt serve nobody to rush on a bus and sit for 10 minutes. 

I hear what you are saying but to me that dont make sense. 

Btw, i went through belmonts prepaid boarding tonight thinking of this 30 something seconds that is being saved and yes it is getting faster. Everyone seems to be programmed now on where to stand how to board and boarding occurs lightning fast now. They also have 3 people now instead of one watching the card reader. 

Earlier around 3pm (the prepaid boarding start time) I watched them close the gates and prepare to start prepaid boarding the only thing is there were people past the card reader and there was no bus yet. So how does that work at 3pm everyone rides for free? 

I thought at least they would wait for a bus before they started prepaid boarding. 

[andrethebusman]

Atlanta has "paid areas" at almost all its rail stations where feeder buses load and unload. The idea is not that it saves time, but saves passengers and drivers a hassle of having to deal with paper transfers. You just get off the bus and walk into the station and vice versa.

Even New York City Transit had a "controlled transfer" between the L Subway and B49 bus at Rockaway Parkway terminal, with motorized gates at the bus entry and exit.

While electronic fare collection saved a lot of money for CTA, it also introduced issues that would not come up if interchange was for no additional payment.

 

[Busjack]

10 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

While electronic fare collection saved a lot of money for CTA, it also introduced issues that would not come up if interchange was for no additional payment.

Which gets down to that it really isn't due to electronic collection, but that CTA wants the extra 25 cents from those who don't have a pass.

[jajuan]

On 6/20/2017 at 0:58 PM, Busjack said:

Which gets down to that it really isn't due to electronic collection, but that CTA wants the extra 25 cents from those who don't have a pass.

On that note, under the entries for announcing prepaid boarding for SB #135 and #146 in AM rush and SB #29 and WB #67 in PM rush on the Weekday Service Change alert page, there are notations telling passengers that still want to use cash that they can give their cash fare to an employee manning the prepaid boarding areas, and they get a special Ventra card to tap on the fare reader to enter the prepaid areas. 

[Busjack]

37 minutes ago, jajuan said:

On that note, under the entries for announcing prepaid boarding for SB #135 and #146 in AM rush and SB #29 and WB #67 in PM rush on the Weekday Service Change alert page, there are notations telling passengers that still want to use cash that they can give their cash fare to an employee manning the prepaid boarding areas, and they get a special Ventra card to tap on the fare reader to enter the prepaid areas. 

Doesn't say that. It says:

If you prefer to pay cash, tell the CTA employee on duty that you want to pay cash to board the bus. The employee will provide you with a special Ventra card and direct you to the nearby Ventra vending machine to load $2 or more on the Ventra card, depending on how many fares you want to be able to pay.

I don't know if there is some kind of Ventra machine installed in the bus shelter (such as is installed on Sheridan Road in Waukegan), but the employee is not handling fares. The only things this possibly does is eliminate the $5 deposit to be returned on registering the account or the $3 Ventra ticket.

BTW, there is similar language in the 67 alert, but obviously there is a Ventra machine in the station. I hope they were not just copying boilerplate into the 135/146 notice.

[jajuan]

21 hours ago, Busjack said:

Doesn't say that. It says:

If you prefer to pay cash, tell the CTA employee on duty that you want to pay cash to board the bus. The employee will provide you with a special Ventra card and direct you to the nearby Ventra vending machine to load $2 or more on the Ventra card, depending on how many fares you want to be able to pay.

I don't know if there is some kind of Ventra machine installed in the bus shelter (such as is installed on Sheridan Road in Waukegan), but the employee is not handling fares. The only things this possibly does is eliminate the $5 deposit to be returned on registering the account or the $3 Ventra ticket.

BTW, there is similar language in the 67 alert, but obviously there is a Ventra machine in the station. I hope they were not just copying boilerplate into the 135/146 notice.

Oops forgot to point out the cards aren't preloaded, but the point is CTA structured the prepaid boarding in a way to potentially keep getting the extra quarter at depending on the rider's riding pattern after getting loading the card. If that person stick's to an original intent of riding one bus, CTA loses the quarter. If he decides to use a second bus after all or is making the return trip within the two hour window before transfer expiration then CTA of course gets the extra quarter. Though passenger finds himself at an even bigger advantage since he's paying $2.25 for up to three rides instead of $2.25 on every ride. But I suppose CTA might be hoping that if the tests show a significant enough increase in bus speed, then it may be a stepping point for some measure of potential ridership increase (at least for these four routes anyway) given one of the more significant reasons a lot of riders have given for riding the bus less is bus travel times becoming too high.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, jajuan said:

but the point is CTA structured the prepaid boarding in a way to potentially keep getting the extra quarter at depending on the rider's riding pattern after getting loading the card.

In short it isn't any different than any Ventra entry point

Your point might have been relevant if the 69 bus area were inside the 69 L station paid area, but it won't be.