2016 South Side Service Changes

[Busjack]

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

#115 seems like it would be cut off altogether from the Red line. Really, that doesn't seem to make sense. Maybe they will go back to a 111/115 route though, then it would have access.

That was the only thing they did in the Crowd Reduction Plan at actually improved customer service. While the loop is still there, interlined at Target, it removed the idiocy of of those on 111th having to make the circle via 115th to get to 95th.

 

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

As far as 95th, #381 is supposed to run express (or it used to) in Chicago with stops only at major intersections, sort of like the #270/#56A combo did. While Milwaukee may not have enough riders (debatable) 95th would seem to have plenty of riders.

It didn't after the Crowd Reduction Plan, It might now, though.

10 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Funny in all these changes in 95th/red line routings, what seems to be happening is 95th is losing some routes for it's bus bays.

What routes is it losing? And then why are they building another set of bus bays on the south side of 95th? I agreed before that borrowing $240 million to rebuild the station is inconsistent with the extension, and art picked up on that Rahm was trying to make the constituency forget it.

43 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

I can't help wondering with all the service increases out south if this is some kind of consolation prize for no Red line extension.

But I see you figured it out.

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, cta5658 said:

Question, with the #4 being extended to 115th, do you think the route will remain at 77th or be switched to 103rd, or would the two garages share the route?

No reason to move it.103 also picks up extra work on 34, 95, and 119.

[Busjack]

10 hours ago, Juniorz said:

Service Map for SouthSide service Improvements

Thanks for posting the map, although I had to zoom it 300%, in which case it became pixilated.

On the Green Line front, frequency at the terminals increases from 20 to 15 minutes, but as I indicated earlier, that seems to be reinstating the Harlem-Roosevelt trips, and then extending them to the terminals.

[Sam92]

11 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I also wonder if every 4 will go to 115th.   Perhaps it could do a 115th,  Doty (Walmart) 111th Cottage loop.  Other than school trippers to serve Corliss, density south of 95th doesn't justify high frequency service. 

It says certain 4's on the map he posted below you. So maybe something similar to the 9 Ashland to Beverly runs but with all day service instead of rush hours alternating between 95th/115th with all trips serving CSU

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, renardo870 said:

Interesting concept for AM and PM rush for an expanded 26 South Shore Express from 4:20am-2pm NB and 130pm-935pm.

 

4 hours ago, Sam92 said:

If this attract enough people it could eventually become bi directional all day service

Definitely a service increase, but the bidirectional suggestion isn't that much of a cost increase, given all the deadheads ti 103. Question though (like the J14/15) is if there is enough demand to accommodate those who don't want to transfer to the Red Line at 69th.

[BusHunter]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

What routes is it losing? And then why are they building another set of bus bays on the south side of 95th? I agreed before that borrowing $240 million to rebuild the station is inconsistent with the extension, and art picked up on that Rahm was trying to make the constituency forget it.

 

Well if #95E and #95W is combined one of those. At the time I also was going to say #115, but according to the map #115 and #4 are running on Cottage 95th to 115th. Someone said that corridor doesn't do as good as Cottage north of 95th. Well then it must have a double to triple service upgrade then.

Don't know instead of doing all this why they just don't build the red line extension? CTA has plenty of money doing grand projects like Wilson,95th and the north main. They could easily build in segments if it's that much of an issue. This is definitely political as Rahm probably knows he can't build a Red line extension before leaving office. Hate to say it for him, but he is one of the most unfavored candidates right now from what I read. What he needs is David Copperfield.

[jajuan]

3 hours ago, Busjack said:

The Mare doesn't win any votes doing that. His constituents were promised through service, not half time through service.

This, combined with 11 shows some willingness to undo the Crowd Reduction plan, but note--while his name was all over this press release, and he wrent to 95th, he was not mentioned in the 11-31 materials, and did not make an appearance at Lincoln and Belmont. Hence this is all about political appearance--not coordinating with Pace. At least here, by undoing the 46 year old 95E 95W split, he is not admitting that his lackey made a mistake. Instead, Andrea Zopp is bringing  economic development in his name.

You're right. That popped in my head this morning before I got a chance to read your post just now. So if coordination is getting undone then perhaps Pace will make 381 express again within the city limits. Quick side bar relating to service coordination, I see that 386 is still quasi-express in Chicago while still being coordinated with the 63W. Getting back on topic though, I think this might not just be about the Mayor trying to gain votes by making folks forget he promised the Red Line would be extended, but I think it may also be about regaining support after the police scandals. I say that because from listening to folks who live in predominantly African American and Latino neighborhoods, the scandals with the police seem to be fresher and more at the forefront of people's minds than the broken promise of the extension and thus dragging his numbers down more in those areas. 

[BusHunter]

Some of this needs the 6 months treatment. It's only fair. But camp emanuel probably couldn't take it if it failed. Instead we may see empty buses in one part of the city and full ones in others and in others groups of people left at a bus stop or CTA platform.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Well if #95E and #95W is combined one of those

Only in the accounting sense. They still will need eastbound and westbound stops, and, if the coordination with 381 is dropped, the need to accommodate more buses--certainly not fewer.

 

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Don't know instead of doing all this why they just don't build the red line extension? CTA has plenty of money doing grand projects like Wilson,95th and the north main.

Do you have a source for the $2 billion to $4 billion? Apparently Rahm doesn't. Wilson is maybe $300 million, 95th is mostly borrowed money, and north main isn't funded for much more than consultants, either, although there there is the argument that an existing facility is about to collapse.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, BusHunter said:

Some of this needs the 6 months treatment. It's only fair. But camp emanuel probably couldn't take it if it failed. Instead we may see empty buses in one part of the city and full ones in others and in others groups of people left at a bus stop or CTA platform.

The only reason CTA runs "experiments" is so it doesn't have to hold public hearings if they fail or need rework. I mentioned this on why didn't Pace make 618 an experiment.

But that basically gets down to the requirement of sec. 5307 that the transit authority "has a locally developed process to solicit and consider public comment before raising a fare or carrying out a major reduction of transportation." For most of these, a reversion would not be a "major reduction," but just a "schedule adjustment," while ending 11 or 31 would be a cut, in the sense that an area served no longer would be.

[Busjack]

9 hours ago, jajuan said:

Getting back on topic though, I think this might not just be about the Mayor trying to gain votes by making folks forget he promised the Red Line would be extended, but I think it may also be about regaining support after the police scandals

I don't know if I should be politically going this far afield, but anyway...

Whatever the cause, the political maps of the past 2 elections show that Emanuel can't get a vote in any of the predominantly Hispanic wards (including the 10th and 49th), has the north side otherwise pretty well sewn up, and the Black wards have the marginal votes, and those wards so far have supported Emanuel. Thus, he keeps going down to 95th St. promising stuff (but this time, only a few bus improvements). From the embedded video, he intends to go to the openings of Whole Foods in Englewood and Mariano's in Bronzeville and take personal credit for them, even though Mariano's is probably building there because it is near IIT. Nobody is building at 71st and Jeffery to replace Dominick's.

However, if the Laquan McDonald stuff bites him in the rear like it did Anita Alvarez, Rahm is dead meat.

[jajuan]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't know if I should be politically going this far afield, but anyway...

Whatever the cause, the political maps of the past 2 elections show that Emanuel can't get a vote in any of the predominantly Hispanic wards (including the 10th and 49th), has the north side otherwise pretty well sewn up, and the Black wards have the marginal votes, and those wards so far have supported Emanuel. Thus, he keeps going down to 95th St. promising stuff (but this time, only a few bus improvements). From the embedded video, he intends to go to the openings of Whole Foods in Englewood and Mariano's in Bronzeville and take personal credit for them, even though Mariano's is probably building there because it is near IIT. Nobody is building at 71st and Jeffery to replace Dominick's.

However, if the Laquan McDonald stuff bites him in the rear like it did Anita Alvarez, Rahm is dead meat.

Well I admit I was a little hesitant about going there too, but it popped in my head as a possibility when you mentioned the somewhat obvious point that these service improvements and putting his face in front of them is about getting votes. I remembered that the media had been saying for months that the police scandal among other things has taken bites into his support. The Feb. 1 online edition of the Trib had his approval rating overall at 36%. NBC5 from that same date also showed him taking a hit. And a recent ABC7 News phone poll, conducted between April 21 and May 3 and just reported on Monday, had 62% of Chicago residents disapproving of his job performance and that increasing to 70% when speaking of African American voters. Again the Laquan McDonald case is cited as a large part of this. The high level of gun violence and the CPS woes are also listed as some reasons. The political analyst cited in the latest story also says that there is a sense that he's more for the downtown elites that's not helping him either. I suppose one bit of good news from his point of view is that, unlike for Alvarez who had to run with McDonald still extremely fresh on voters' minds, his reelection race is three years down the road isn't for another three years which in political terms is plenty of time to turn things around if he starts now finding arenas with positive results to the public that he can connect his name to and in front of as well as having no new major bad news issues pop up that can drag his numbers down as long as the McDonald case and other issues have.

[andrethebusman]

Reason 95 was split into 95E and 95W20 or so years ago was that the west end was much, much heavier than the east end at the time. thanks to Evergreen Plaza. Plaza is RIP now of course, and there does not seem to be anywhere near as many bus riders going to Wal-Mart. So if the two are thru-routed using the 95E headway as the determining headway, west end headways will be 15-20 minutes all day, which is plenty. As for 381 going back to express in the city, why not? For instance, 352, even though it runs 24/7 still only stops every half mile north of 127th, and 359 runs non-stop 95/Ryan to 119th. The routes on Cicero do not make all stops between Midway and Ford City either. Even 349, between 79th and 95th only makes 83rd, 87th, 91st. PACE does not really seem to want to deal with city riders.

 

[jajuan]

33 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

Reason 95 was split into 95E and 95W20 or so years ago was that the west end was much, much heavier than the east end at the time. thanks to Evergreen Plaza. Plaza is RIP now of course, and there does not seem to be anywhere near as many bus riders going to Wal-Mart. So if the two are thru-routed using the 95E headway as the determining headway, west end headways will be 15-20 minutes all day, which is plenty. As for 381 going back to express in the city, why not? For instance, 352, even though it runs 24/7 still only stops every half mile north of 127th, and 359 runs non-stop 95/Ryan to 119th. The routes on Cicero do not make all stops between Midway and Ford City either. Even 349, between 79th and 95th only makes 83rd, 87th, 91st. PACE does not really seem to want to deal with city riders.

 

Well along the lines given of how it handles some of its other routes that partially operate within the city, why should want to? Not to say that it's biased against city riders, but it is the suburban bus service while CTA is expected to be the primary bus service inside the city.

Edited May 14, 2016 by jajuan
corrected typo

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, jajuan said:

 his reelection race is three years down the road 

The only real story on TV was a question to him whether Zopp was positioning herself to run in 2019; again from the Sun-Times article:

Thursday’s news conference ended abruptly when a reporter dared to ask whether the appointment as deputy mayor would give Zopp a platform to run for mayor in 2019 if Emanuel doesn’t.

“He ain’t going no place. He’s still the mayor,” an African-American woman at the station shouted, referring to Emanuel.

The mayor added, “She just answered you. End of press conference. Thank you.”

[jajuan]

4 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The only real story on TV was a question to him whether Zopp was positioning herself to run in 2019; again from the Sun-Times article:

Thursday’s news conference ended abruptly when a reporter dared to ask whether the appointment as deputy mayor would give Zopp a platform to run for mayor in 2019 if Emanuel doesn’t.

“He ain’t going no place. He’s still the mayor,” an African-American woman at the station shouted, referring to Emanuel.

The mayor added, “She just answered you. End of press conference. Thank you.”

To the lady's outburst I say maybe since we don't know what will happen in three years in either direction, but the media and his current actions seem to agree on one thing. And that's that there are troubles in the here and now that he needs to correct or his reelection bid could come to jeopardy. At least one national paper is already saying it's possible, but the local media seemingly doesn't yet want to go there outside of the question posed that you quoted here.

[andrethebusman]

Historically, there have been suburban bus routes that carried local riders in the city. For instance, United Motor Coach (and predecessors) predated CSL and CTA on Northwest Hwy, Higgins, and Touhy, Safeway predated CSL on Western (streetcars, no less) south of 75th and on Halsted south of 85th, while Suburban transit came into 63rd/Halsted via 95th-Vincennes-87th-Morgan-63rd. Safeway also had full local rights on the Loop-Altgeld Gardens via King Dr route, though CMC and CSL were there first except between 81st and 111th and in the Gardens. The decision to get out of the city came as a result of the collapse of 1982, when most routes were cut back to the city limits. When they were re-extended in over the next couple of years, the decision was consciously made not to carry local riders in the city. Initially the idea was drop off inbound and pick up only outbound,  but as CTA started abandoning some of the minimal routes that PACE duplicated, PACE mostly relented and started carrying the local trade. However, by having halt-mile only stops, PACE is still sending the message that they really do not want the local trade.

One of the oddest examples of local riding existed for years while Hawthorne Race Track was still a major destination. There were hundreds of horse players CTA hauled from the L at Cicero and Cermak to the track. At the time there was a Joliet (831) bus that happened to leave Cermak just as the big rush was going to the track, and every day, the Joliet bus would line up along with the CTA track extras and pick up a standing load going to the track. Otherwise, that trip carried very, very few people, but this kept it going for several years.

 

[artthouwill]

On 5/12/2016 at 9:14 AM, Busjack said:

Tribune says you guys are going to get what you want:

• The 95th Street bus will combine separate east and west segments to create a continuous route (doesn't say anything about coordination with 381).
• The #4 Cottage Grove bus will extend south from 95th Street to 115th Street.
• The #71 71st Street bus will extend all trips from 73rd to 112th and Torrence, with increased frequency.
• The #26 South Shore Express service will start earlier and run later.
• The #34 Michigan and #119 Michigan/119th bus routes will see more buses running during midday and evening hours.
• The Cottage Grove and Ashland/63rd branches of the Green Line will get more buses [really, or bad reporting?] during rush hours.

Is 4 going to overlap 115? I can't see them cutting access to the 95th station.

 

I also thought about ME service, especially the South Chicago branch and the main line local north of Kensington.   At least Pace makes adjustments when CTA expands ser vice in areas where both agencies run.  The S Chicago branch should be near obsolete with the 26 service expansion. Unless Metra is counting on the US Steel property blooming in the future,  maybe they need to consider scaling the branch service as well as the Kensington/Blue Island local. 

[jajuan]

4 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I also thought about ME service, especially the South Chicago branch and the main line local north of Kensington.   At least Pace makes adjustments when CTA expands ser vice in areas where both agencies run.  The S Chicago branch should be near obsolete with the 26 service expansion. Unless Metra is counting on the US Steel property blooming in the future,  maybe they need to consider scaling the branch service as well as the Kensington/Blue Island local. 

Only problem with that is the #26's NB and SB service will still only overlap probably not much beyond between maybe 2PM and 3PM after the expansion from glancing at  how long a trip takes according to the current schedule, while the South Chicago Branch is looks to be pretty much bidirectional all day albeit in a limited capacity compared to CTA services. Plus there will probably still be a market for folks who will like the advantage of the little over half hour travel time on the ME South Chicago Branch compared to the hour to hour and fifteen minute travel time the #26's schedule reflects not counting the traffic delays that can be encountered on South Shore Drive, Lake Shore Drive and Michigan Avenue along the way. So singing the death knells of ME services through the South Chicago area might be premature.

[andrethebusman]

Metra Electric's Kensington Locals and South Chicago Locals will be here until the end of time. Political realities are such that they can never be cut. There is a group of very vocal, politically-savvy folks who just love that service, and will make certain it stays. Remember how Metra tried to close the station at 47th/Lake Park, and the local political worthies made such a fuss it was kept, even though logically, every singe person who gets on or off there could just as well ride the #6 to downtown, and unless they are going to Michigan/Van Buren or Michigan/Randolph get there faster? But there is still this "us vs them" perception, and Metra users see themselves as somewhat "better" than mere mortals who use the CTA.

[jajuan]

10 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

Metra Electric's Kensington Locals and South Chicago Locals will be here until the end of time. Political realities are such that they can never be cut. There is a group of very vocal, politically-savvy folks who just love that service, and will make certain it stays. Remember how Metra tried to close the station at 47th/Lake Park, and the local political worthies made such a fuss it was kept, even though logically, every singe person who gets on or off there could just as well ride the #6 to downtown, and unless they are going to Michigan/Van Buren or Michigan/Randolph get there faster? But there is still this "us vs them" perception, and Metra users see themselves as somewhat "better" than mere mortals who use the CTA.

Yes, that particular squabble came to mind when I saw Art's suggestion. If that much fuss was made over just one station, then imagine the ridiculously huge push back that would be made at scaling back entire train trips from either service. it would seem analogous to suggesting to MTA to scale back local services on its Metro-North Railroad Harlem and Hudson Lines through the Bronx or on its Long Island Railroad Port Washington Line through Queens because of the similar set up of city bus and/or rapid transit to downtown areas serving the same areas within city limits as those suburban commuter rail services. 

[andrethebusman]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 11:32 AM, jajuan said:

Yes, that particular squabble came to mind when I saw Art's suggestion. If that much fuss was made over just one station, then imagine the ridiculously huge push back that would be made at scaling back entire train trips from either service. it would seem analogous to suggesting to MTA to scale back local services on its Metro-North Railroad Harlem and Hudson Lines through the Bronx or on its Long Island Railroad Port Washington Line through Queens because of the similar set up of city bus and/or rapid transit to downtown areas serving the same areas within city limits as those suburban commuter rail services. 

Actually, as far back as the 1920's when the IRT extended its routes up into the Bronx and the BMT into Queens, there were questions asked about whether these local services were really needed any more. At the time, there was no MTA, so that went nowhere. When the MTA was set up in the 1970's, the question came up again, and basically the local train riders said "we will not lower ourselves to riding the subway". Historically, commuter train users have always seen themselves as a higher class than mere transit passengers, and to a great degree still do.

This expansion of the 26 will bring the whole matter of Metra vs CTA to a boil. Big reason why NB 26 will run until roughly noon and SB start at the same time is that this is when the South Chicago branch carries its load. There is VERY little business SB in the AM or NB in the PM, and hasn't been in years, especially since the 6 and 14 assumed their current forms. That route is almost exclusively rush commuting.

[Busjack]

Board meeting video for today's meeting has ordinance approving changes to 26 and 95E/W. Reason given by the director of planning was that these were major changes requiring board approval, while the rest were minor changes.

While she said most of the changes were for September, the 26 changes are for June 20.

Also, she made statements about how 95 would increase ridership because passengers want a one seat ride, and would improve service frequency west of State, so the fair inference is no more Pace coordination.

[Sam92]

On 5/18/2016 at 10:31 PM, jajuan said:

Only problem with that is the #26's NB and SB service will still only overlap probably not much beyond between maybe 2PM and 3PM after the expansion from glancing at  how long a trip takes according to the current schedule, while the South Chicago Branch is looks to be pretty much bidirectional all day albeit in a limited capacity compared to CTA services. Plus there will probably still be a market for folks who will like the advantage of the little over half hour travel time on the ME South Chicago Branch compared to the hour to hour and fifteen minute travel time the #26's schedule reflects not counting the traffic delays that can be encountered on South Shore Drive, Lake Shore Drive and Michigan Avenue along the way. So singing the death knells of ME services through the South Chicago area might be premature.

 

On 5/27/2016 at 1:50 AM, andrethebusman said:

Actually, as far back as the 1920's when the IRT extended its routes up into the Bronx and the BMT into Queens, there were questions asked about whether these local services were really needed any more. At the time, there was no MTA, so that went nowhere. When the MTA was set up in the 1970's, the question came up again, and basically the local train riders said "we will not lower ourselves to riding the subway". Historically, commuter train users have always seen themselves as a higher class than mere transit passengers, and to a great degree still do.

This expansion of the 26 will bring the whole matter of Metra vs CTA to a boil. Big reason why NB 26 will run until roughly noon and SB start at the same time is that this is when the South Chicago branch carries its load. There is VERY little business SB in the AM or NB in the PM, and hasn't been in years, especially since the 6 and 14 assumed their current forms. That route is almost exclusively rush commuting.

Idk the 26 kinda received quite a bit of attention in recent years compared to before considering it went from 40ft to almost exclusively attics indicating some type of ridership increase. Now this... maybe cta is testing to see if there is potential for ridership outside of the main rush and may very well make it bidirectional if this proves successful. I mean its a one seat ride to the from that corner of the city to downtown. In fact would probably be an advantage improving 71 seeing as those riders are transferring to the red line anyway. Its also cheaper than the metra and runs more often so it could possibly become a stronger route. 

[Sam92]

21 hours ago, Busjack said:

Board meeting video for today's meeting has ordinance approving changes to 26 and 95E/W. Reason given by the director of planning was that these were major changes requiring board approval, while the rest were minor changes.

While she said most of the changes were for September, the 26 changes are for June 20.

Also, she made statements about how 95 would increase ridership because passengers want a one seat ride, and would improve service frequency west of State, so the fair inference is no more Pace coordination.

Yes. It would take some pressure off some of the feeders in the rush along with knocking down crowds on the school runs because people on routes like 112/115 looking to travel across 95th no longer have ride all the way to the Dan Ryan to switch. With the #4 extending to 115th the #115 will probably get a frequency reduction.any start date for #95 93rd/95th?