Pace inventory

[andrethebusman]

Attached is the current (1/12/17) PACE fixed route and paratransit inventories. You all can figure out the location codes, I hope...

Pace Paratransit Vehicles 01-06-2016.pdf

Pace fixed-route 01 06 2017.xlsx

[Busjack]

49 minutes ago, andrethebusman said:

You all can figure out the location codes, I hope...

TBS and South 2 must mean "scrap lot." TBS must be "to be scrapped" and not Turner Broadcasting System.  South 2 is definitely the dead lot at South. Rav=Ravina

Another thing that seems confirmed that could be inferred from Webwatch is that while 6377-6378 are East Dundee buses (showed up on 610), 6390-6391 are River (S. Elgin) buses (have been on 606 and 616). [I amend my prior remarks on this]

Note also that 6510-6521 are listed as NW. I said before that they were the Pulse buses I saw at South Holland. The question is whether this is just the assignment, or they have headed to NW,

This projects that everything currently missing up through 6558 is SW. 6566-6572 to NW and 6573-6575 to SW, which appears to end it at 90 buses. I'm somewhat surprised that more to SW and NW, and not more to River to finish 606 and 616 or to West.

McHenry picked up 2661-2662, while we knew 2696 went to Schaumburg.

Another new thing indicated is MCIs 6972-6976 for H.

At some point I'll try to get numbers on what's dead and what's left.

On the paratransit front, there are some 160XX series ones, but mostly scattered around, main concentrations seem to be DuPage and McHenry, "South Lot 2" is again the scrap I mentioned.

 

 

 

[busfan2847]

Brilliant! This will clear things up.

 

 

[rotjohns]

3 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

Brilliant! This will clear things up.

 

 

Especially at Southwest, look at all the retired Orions.  And some of the 6162 are in the dust.  The 15500s allowed that to happen.

And it also explains the disappearance of 6147 from Southwest, must have broke down one day and they decided too expensive to fix.

[PACE NORTHWEST]

6101 is now at Northwest.

[busfan2847]

6020, 6022, 6029, 6032 are at North from the list?

[andrethebusman]

South2 seems to be Acceptance Center. Awaiting scrap, awaiting acceptance, or awaiting heavy maintenance. What is RAV??

[Busjack]

13 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

South2 seems to be Acceptance Center. Awaiting scrap, awaiting acceptance, or awaiting heavy maintenance. What is RAV??

You didn't read above.

South 2 is the vacant lot west of the Markham South Division* where the junk hangs out (see here). Only thing I saw at South Holland Acceptance Division in November 2016 was the Pulse buses (6510-6521) and those are NW on the chart.

*Approximately here on Streetview, (Satellite View) although now loaded with junk.

13 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

6020, 6022, 6029, 6032 are at North from the list?

The 6000s listed at North must be in storage there for Ravinia, as they certainly aren't running in Waukegan, and correspond to some of the numbers seen last year at Ravinia. See my and Pace831's posts.

[Busjack]

My math is on the attached spreadsheet. I counted buses that were assigned to legit divisions, not off the inventory, nor the various out of service and Ravinia buses noted in the preceding post.

Pace fixed-route 01 06 2017.xlsx

Basically, this is what remains

6000s: 62 of 160

6162s 80 of 99

6600s 70 of 84

6262s 59 of 60

6900s 6 of 8

Trolleys 6 of 7

 

In short, of these series, 283 of 418.

Taking out the 3 5700s, although the inventory indicates 924 fixed route buses, only 789 are in active service. Still growth of over 100 compared to a couple of years ago,  but I anticipate that a good number of 6000s and 6162s will be off the roster soon. Trolleys should be replaced around April.

[andrethebusman]

7000's and 14400's are "community buses" that are being used in regular route service.

[Pace831]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 0:24 PM, andrethebusman said:

Attached is the current (1/12/17) PACE fixed route and paratransit inventories. You all can figure out the location codes, I hope...

Thanks! I was actually starting to compile a list of paratransit vehicle assignments, but you just saved me a lot of work.

9 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

7000's and 14400's are "community buses" that are being used in regular route service.

The only community vehicle used on a fixed route is 14401 on route 511, but I don't see that one on the list. The ones that are must be for call-n-rides.

What is SCR? At first I thought it stood for "scrap", but the buses on that list are new (4 14200's), and South 2 is the scrap lot.

 

[Busjack]

28 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

The only community vehicle used on a fixed route is 14401 on route 511, but I don't see that one on the list. The ones that are must be for call-n-rides.

The only ones I saw on the inventory were on the paratransit one (Ride Right, the central Kane contractor, and River Div.,  which runs its own paratransit). Aren't any on the fixed route spreadsheet.

28 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

What is SCR? At first I thought it stood for "scrap", but the buses on that list are new (4 14200's), and South 2 is the scrap lot.

SCR is one of the Chicago paratransit operators. What surprised me is that Chicago paratransit operators are supposed to provide their own equipment, but the paratransit inventory also shows that CDT, MV Chicago and First Transit Chicago have some.

[busfan2847]

On 1/12/2017 at 10:43 PM, Busjack said:

My math is on the attached spreadsheet. I counted buses that were assigned to legit divisions, not off the inventory, nor the various out of service and Ravinia buses noted in the preceding post.

Pace fixed-route 01 06 2017.xlsx

Basically, this is what remains

6000s: 62 of 160

6162s 80 of 99

 

I make it 68 6000s and 90 6162s

[BusHunter]

On 1/12/2017 at 0:24 PM, andrethebusman said:

Attached is the current (1/12/17) PACE fixed route and paratransit inventories. You all can figure out the location codes, I hope...

Pace Paratransit Vehicles 01-06-2016.pdf

Pace fixed-route 01 06 2017.xlsx

Saw this earlier today, I thought that was it for the surprises now that you seem to be retired in Florida, but I see your reach is long and your bag of goodies is deep. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised. Now I can update the roster. It's the least i can do even though I'm insanely busy!!

BTW, if this doesn't show up right on your windows setup, (mine shows gibberish I guess I don't have the right program installed which is??? , pardon the brain fog) it shows up in my phone which is weird.

[BusHunter]

Ok Pace roster is updated, (thanks again) lots of questions though while doing it. A few secrets fell through the cracks too like I'm noticing #6566 - #6572 are at nw??? Really??? I'm going to have to check this out. Question will be what happens to #6576 - #6599 if they do exist and Chandler did have up to #6581 according to Pace831 unless I'm mistaken.

I have #5710, #5712, #5735 out at Romeoville but I don't know what those are. Maybe someone can refresh my memory.

Mchenry has 4 buses which is a surprise because I only thought they had the 2.

Interesting that #6904 and #6905 bit the dust.

Lots of buses have popped up at ravinia even a couple Orions. I guess we won't be seeing #2400's anymore. A few #6600's are there as well. I included scrap line lists and Ravinia lists since they were listed by Andre.

I don't get the 4 orions either at north. Maybe that's a mistake. Time to check the tracker and see if we do see them.

 

[Busjack]

On 1/14/2017 at 2:29 PM, busfan2847 said:

I make it 68 6000s and 90 6162s

 

I have my spreadsheets posted, so where do you differ?

 

On 1/14/2017 at 7:41 PM, BusHunter said:

Ok Pace roster is updated, (thanks again) lots of questions though while doing it. A few secrets fell through the cracks too like I'm noticing #6566 - #6572 are at nw??? Really??? I'm going to have to check this out. Question will be what happens to #6576 - #6599 if they do exist and Chandler did have up to #6581 according to Pace831 unless I'm mistaken.

I think you assume too much. On the NW ones, 6510-69521 are on the NW roster but clearly not there, but at South Holland, and probably the same could be said for 6566-6572. I'm sure not much different than the 6400s being all scattered last year, and most going to NW after NS got 6477-6484.

I'm sure this was a FOIA based on what was in inventory on 1/12. There is no assurance that Pace ordered over what was represented, and since the acceptance point is South Holland, if Chandler is holding onto anything as agent of Eldorado National California, it is not in Pace's inventory, because Pace doesn't own it.

 

[busfan2847]

34 minutes ago, Busjack said:

 

I have my spreadsheets posted, so where do you differ?

 

6162 batch finishes at 6261 not 6251 and all the other 10 are in service - 90 out of 99

6088 SW, 6091 NW, 6092/3 SW, 6121 NW, 6122 W (these last two are missing on your copy of All inventory, 6116/7 appear twice) - 68 out of 160

 

[busfan2847]

2 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Ok Pace roster is updated, (thanks again) lots of questions though while doing it. A few secrets fell through the cracks too like I'm noticing #6566 - #6572 are at nw??? Really??? I'm going to have to check this out. Question will be what happens to #6576 - #6599 if they do exist and Chandler did have up to #6581 according to Pace831 unless I'm mistaken.

I have #5710, #5712, #5735 out at Romeoville but I don't know what those are. Maybe someone can refresh my memory.

Mchenry has 4 buses which is a surprise because I only thought they had the 2.

Interesting that #6904 and #6905 bit the dust.

Lots of buses have popped up at ravinia even a couple Orions. I guess we won't be seeing #2400's anymore. A few #6600's are there as well. I included scrap line lists and Ravinia lists since they were listed by Andre.

I don't get the 4 orions either at north. Maybe that's a mistake. Time to check the tracker and see if we do see them.

 

6566-6572 not delivered yet same as Pulse buses (6510-21) delivered to South Holland, but not at NW yet, and also 6972-6 not in service yet.

57xx are Ford Transit/El Dorado paratransit vehicles .

6904/5 have been reported at South 2 for some time, I guess 6972-6 will remove the rest? Four Orions at North are stored Ravinia vehicles, I asked this question a couple of days ago.

I think 6576-6599 do not exist, or will nor exist soon. All vehicles on order seem to be included with their planned allocations. What Pace831 said was "It looked like6581 but I'm not 100% sure because I was too far away to see it clearly."

 

[Busjack]

Pace fixed-route 01 06 2017.xlsx

 

18 minutes ago, busfan2847 said:

6162 batch finishes at 6261 not 6251 and all the other 10 are in service - 90 out of 99

6088 SW, 6091 NW, 6092/3 SW, 6121 NW, 6122 W (these last two are missing on your copy of All inventory, 6116/7 appear twice) - 68 out of 160

 

Corrected sheet attached (I guess one has to be more careful pasting at night). Thanks.

 

[BusHunter]

7 hours ago, Busjack said:

 

I have my spreadsheets posted, so where do you differ?

 

I think you assume too much. On the NW ones, 6910-6921 are on the NW roster but clearly not there, but at South Holland, and probably the same could be said for 6566-6572. I'm sure not much different than the 6400s being all scattered last year, and most going to NW after NS got 6477-6484.

I'm sure this was a FOIA based on what was in inventory on 1/12. There is no assurance that Pace ordered over what was represented, and since the acceptance point is South Holland, if Chandler is holding onto anything as agent of Eldorado National California, it is not in Pace's inventory, because Pace doesn't own it.

 

So you think the eldos stop at #6575? CTA when it posts a roster let me remind you only posts up to what was delivered. NW is where the roster says #6566-72 are going so I have no cause to doubt it. Besides nw has 30 orions to replace. The pulse buses are only 12.

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Besides nw has 30 orions to replace. The pulse buses are only 12.

The Pulse buses are 11 (no 13), and 6566-6572 are  another 7, so that totals 18.

When I ran the filter on the 6000s page of the corrected spreadsheet, I got 19, which is certainly close enough for horseshoes (even if someone finds another goof).

6000s NW filter.xlsx.

The other things I'll assert from history:

• NOBODY outside of Pace has ever known what Pace has done with options. For instance, Andre posted about a year ago on several sites that some report said that 2015's order was to go to 6492 or 6495. Obviously, now, it did not, it ended at 6484.
• Usually some buses, such as the Nova Classics, drop early, while others, such as some 2272-2378 series Orion Is lasted about 20 years, and were not replaced until the 6323s.
• There are going to be more shifts when the 71 remaining CNGs show up by Summer.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:

• If we accept the budget that 53 EZ Riders will be moved to the divisions as the feeders get 53 small buses, not all 53 are going to North Shore. The more likely conclusion, since the Inventory indicates that NW's and SW's 40 foot buses will be pretty much all Axess in a month (of whenever Pulse hits), some Axess buses will be there only a short while, and will move to West, and maybe even North.

Of course, we also don't know what expansions are planned, like last year Fox Valley going up about 10 buses (filtered list now shows 38).

 

[Pace831]

14 hours ago, BusHunter said:

Question will be what happens to #6576 - #6599 if they do exist and Chandler did have up to #6581 according to Pace831 unless I'm mistaken.

The mistake was probably mine. Remember I said I wasn't sure 6581 was the correct number because I saw it from a distance. I'm willing to believe 6575 is the last one, but like Busjack said, we'll have to wait and see.

14 hours ago, BusHunter said:

I have #5710, #5712, #5735 out at Romeoville but I don't know what those are. Maybe someone can refresh my memory.

As busfan2847 noted, paratransit vehicles. They have blue wraps and are used for routes 668/669.

 

[BusHunter]

10 hours ago, Busjack said:

The Pulse buses are 11 (no 13), and 6566-6572 are  another 7, so that totals 18.

When I ran the filter on the 6000s page of the corrected spreadsheet, I got 19, which is certainly close enough for horseshoes (even if someone finds another goof).

6000s NW filter.xlsx.

The other things I'll assert from history:

• NOBODY outside of Pace has ever known what Pace has done with options. For instance, Andre posted about a year ago on several sites that some report said that 2015's order was to go to 6492 or 6495. Obviously, now, it did not, it ended at 6484.
• Usually some buses, such as the Nova Classics, drop early, while others, such as some 2272-2378 series Orion Is lasted about 20 years, and were not replaced until the 6323s.
• There are going to be more shifts when the 71 remaining CNGs show up by Summer.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:

• If we accept the budget that 53 EZ Riders will be moved to the divisions as the feeders get 53 small buses, not all 53 are going to North Shore. The more likely conclusion, since the Inventory indicates that NW's and SW's 40 foot buses will be pretty much all Axess in a month (of whenever Pulse hits), some Axess buses will be there only a short while, and will move to West, and maybe even North.

Of course, we also don't know what expansions are planned, like last year Fox Valley going up about 10 buses (filtered list now shows 38).

 

I dont think any axess' will move. Probably the 71 cngs are going to displace the south nabis to north and west. Probably #6162's to north and #6262's to west.

Theoretically if 245 axess' are here then under the up to 416 contract some can still be ordered but it sounds like maybe that wouldn't happen.  We may have seen the last of the axess orders. 

As far as ez riders go it sounds like they may want to spread those around to places like ns or river that has a couple nabis to eliminate them. It doesn't make sense to send ez riders anywhere else if anything sw needs bigger buses and the same for nw. West don't use ez riders unless you want to use them on #319.

It almost sounds like maybe they are looking to axe the #6162's in totality and maybe try to work on the #6600's. 53 buses on order for the 53 displaced almost makes it sound like thats what's left between the two after this cng swap. That may be the devil in the details. I believe they did say the #6262's are not yet going to be replaced.

[Busjack]

You've seen the last because the contract was limited to 5 years.

Other than that, you've confused what I said. Pace said, either in connection with the CNG order or in the 2017 budget it was getting:

• 71 more CNGs.
• 53 small buses. The full size buses being replaced will be added to Pace-operated fixed route service.
• 76 Fixed route buses ($34.300 million): This project funds 76 35’ and 40’ transit buses.

That adds up to 199 buses.Add to that 24 Axess buses in the Inventory that apparently  not in service yet,  and that's 223 buses to go into service in approximately the next year.

Now what I said was after the 53 buses are added. The CNGs may move 21 6262s back to West, but that probably knocks out most of the 29 Orion VIs. The other 50 CNGs knock out 49 6162s at S. So those numbers work.

If we assume that the remaining 24 buses in this order knock out the Orion VIs at NW and SW, that still leaves what the 129 budgeted buses are supposed to knock out. After knocking out the S 6162s, there are 111 2003 NABIs left, which means that 129 is enough to take care of them.

As to "what divisions could use 2600s," NW had 9 more before it transferred 2767 and 2785-2792. There are still plenty of light routes, such as 209, 210, 230, 234, 240, 241, 326, 422, 423, 696 (some shared with NS) that could use them. Other than expansion, FV, H, and R don't need them on local routes.NS could use some, and I'm not sure why any 2600s never made it to N, but still there are 53 buses that need to be accounted for in about a year.

[Pace831]

Here's what was at South Holland the evening of 1/31/17:

• Pulse buses: 6519 & 6520
• 4 retired Orions, including 6083 and 6140
• A few dozen new community vehicles, numbered in the 16400s. The highest I saw was 16433, so the whole series was probably there.