Pace Bus Moves

[garmon757]

Not originally (and I don't consider Niles and Highland Park to be contract operations, but municipal operators).

With the Highland Park caveat noted above, all of the original allocation was to divisions (Fox, River, South, and Heritage).

However, when the 2600s started displacing 6600s in all but South, a good number ended up on contract operations, basically because around 2006 or so, the contractors had the oldest Pace-owned equipment. The transfer from Aurora to Westmont was to replace 2500s and 2000s, and, essentially, the smaller 2500s were replaced with larger 6600s. Similarly, once Academy's equipment started breaking down, a mess of 6600s and some 6200s went there.

Not all transfers were for contractors; for instance 6600-6003 were transferred to North to run the short lived 580 North Central Service feeders, and stayed there after those were cancelled. 6682 and 6684 went to North from Highland Park for the Lake Forest feeders, and also stayed there.

Of course, when Lisle-Westmont got 2793-2812, the 6600s were freed to go to divisions, primarily NS and N. Others were freed when W got the Axess buses, but apparently that was mostly 6200s to NS and N.

That's a tough call about Niles and Highland Park not being contract operations but I respect your strong opinion about them. I wonder what's next for Pace when they start to retire some Nabi's (Some 6162-6261 and 6600s)?

[Busjack]

That's a tough call about Niles and Highland Park not being contract operations but I respect your strong opinion about them. I wonder what's next for Pace when they start to retire some Nabi's (Some 6162-6261 and 6600s)?

The are classified differently in the budget (along with Downers Grove and the Schaumburg Trolley).

6000-6155 are older, and (other than wrecks) would be replaced before those you mentioned.

Last year there were the statements that South's fleet (which is now in the range you mentioned, plus some blue ones) were going to be replaced with CNG buses. Besides that being too early for retirement, it looks like the the deadline in the specifications to start doing so in June 2014 is going to be missed, in that while the minutes indicate that the board authorized the contract, the contract award was not posted, and some prerequisites for doing so, such as issuing bonds to convert the physical facilities in the garage have not happened.

[garmon757]

Compressed natural gas buses eh? That's very interesting. So Pace is dealing with a stalemate situation for the time being? If they miss the deadline then what is it going to take for them to be rewarded with some contracts of new buses then? The Orion VI's have been very solid for over an decade now in my opinion but can the NABI's hang in there for a couple more years?

[Busjack]

Compressed natural gas buses eh? That's very interesting. So Pace is dealing with a stalemate situation for the time being? If they miss the deadline then what is it going to take for them to be rewarded with some contracts of new buses then? ...

Looking at the 3 service boards' 2014 budgets, the hangup seems to be that they are waiting for state bond money from bond programs that have expired and haven't been reauthorized, in Pace's case explicitly dedicated to buying these buses.

As to the status of the contracts, it gets down to the specifications saying that Pace is not obligated unless it has the money and gives notice to proceed. Although there is obviously no way that El Dorado National can now meet the part of the specification saying that deliveries are to start by June, 2014, the question becomes whether Pace has a sufficient understanding with El Dorado National that EN will honor the price when the money arrives and a notice to proceed is issued.

In effect, it isn't much different than the joke CTA contract to buy 900 hybrid buses. News reports were that the CTA Board approved the contract, but a contract award was never posted, and New Flyer started production of the shells without essentially having a contract. People reported here that NF peddled the buses to others, and NF essentially sold its unused production capacity to Ottawa. But, when CTA needed new buses, it used Seattle options for the 4300s, instead of saying that the old contract was suddenly put into effect.

[garmon757]

Looking at the 3 service boards' 2014 budgets, the hangup seems to be that they are waiting for state bond money from bond programs that have expired and haven't been reauthorized, in Pace's case explicitly dedicated to buying these buses.

As to the status of the contracts, it gets down to the specifications saying that Pace is not obligated unless it has the money and gives notice to proceed. Although there is obviously no way that El Dorado National can now meet the part of the specification saying that deliveries are to start by June, 2014, the question becomes whether Pace has a sufficient understanding with El Dorado National that EN will honor the price when the money arrives and a notice to proceed is issued.

In effect, it isn't much different than the joke CTA contract to buy 900 hybrid buses. News reports were that the CTA Board approved the contract, but a contract award was never posted, and New Flyer started production of the shells without essentially having a contract. People reported here that NF peddled the buses to others, and NF essentially sold its unused production capacity to Ottawa. But, when CTA needed new buses, it used Seattle options for the 4300s, instead of saying that the old contract was suddenly put into effect.

Well I give Pace a ton of credit for hanging in there while dealing with some hardship when it comes to the budget. As far as CTA goes, it's an absolute disgrace and a (explicit word) move thinking that they're slick to come up with anything in their sleeves. Trust me, it's going to bite them in their rear ends soon enough.

[ctrabs74]

The are classified differently in the budget (along with Downers Grove and the Schaumburg Trolley).

6000-6155 are older, and (other than wrecks) would be replaced before those you mentioned.

Last year there were the statements that South's fleet (which is now in the range you mentioned, plus some blue ones) were going to be replaced with CNG buses. Besides that being too early for retirement, it looks like the the deadline in the specifications to start doing so in June 2014 is going to be missed, in that while the minutes indicate that the board authorized the contract, the contract award was not posted, and some prerequisites for doing so, such as issuing bonds to convert the physical facilities in the garage have not happened.

From today's PACE's "Moving Forward" e-newsletter:

"In 2014, Pace will continue its work to convert its South Division facility in Markham to operate compressed natural gas (CNG) buses by 2015. Full implementation of the Ventra fare system, in partnership with CTA, will occur during 2014 along with coordination efforts with Metra. Development of Arterial Rapid Transit service on Milwaukee Avenue will also continue. A new program to provide real-time information signage at bus shelters is already underway. These are just a few examples of Pace projects and goals for 2014."

[rotjohns]

From today's PACE's "Moving Forward" e-newsletter:

"In 2014, Pace will continue its work to convert its South Division facility in Markham to operate compressed natural gas (CNG) buses by 2015. Full implementation of the Ventra fare system, in partnership with CTA, will occur during 2014 along with coordination efforts with Metra. Development of Arterial Rapid Transit service on Milwaukee Avenue will also continue. A new program to provide real-time information signage at bus shelters is already underway. These are just a few examples of Pace projects and goals for 2014."

I wonder if the 2003 Nabis will begin the retirement process at South because of this? 2015 will make them 12 years old and some of them look weary already.

[rotjohns]

Just physically saw #2765 on Route 715. According to Webwatch, the rest of the regular Eldos that run #711 and #715 are in tact. Wonder why this bus got moved from Aurora?

[Busjack]

Webwatch indicates that 6321 is at North Shore (route 422), I guess moved from S.

Update: It actually was it.

[Busjack]

Looking at WebWatch 2787*-92 are at SW. Scrambling my brain, they used to be at NW.

Maybe that's what SW intends to run on 895.

*Revised

[rotjohns]

Looking at WebWatch 2789-92 are at SW. Scrambling my brain, they used to be at NW.

Maybe that's what SW intends to run on 895.

I'm guessing with the 6400s in town now, they have the room to send them away since it doesn't appear that the Orions are heavily being retired yet.

[Busjack]

Looks like W is losing most of its 40 foot 2003 NABIs. Webwatch indicates 6241 and 6245 at South (352). 6246 still at W.

[PACE NORTHWEST]

NW sent 6147 and 6149 to SW. I saw them on Webwatch the past couple of days.

[rotjohns]

NW sent 6147 and 6149 to SW. I saw them on Webwatch the past couple of days.

6140 was also moved to SW, it's on Route 379 right now.  Two reasons for this:

1. Some of the SW Orions were looking really bad and are probably being retired.  I saw one of them last week with it's destination sign completely broken.

2. The more likely reason is to accommodate all of the El Dorados that are currently running on the 895, which originates out of SW.  I wouldn't be surprised if all of the late 6100s head to SW as they are the "newest" Orions from 2003-2004.

[Busjack]

,,,

2. The more likely reason is to accommodate all of the El Dorados that are currently running on the 895, which originates out of SW.  I wouldn't be surprised if all of the late 6100s head to SW as they are the "newest" Orions from 2003-2004.

Not likely unless ridership is really up, and then they probably would assign something new there. The original announcement when they converted from paratransits was to look for a blue bus. An Orion has run there occasionally, but very occasionally.

[rotjohns]

Not likely unless ridership is really up, and then they probably would assign something new there. The original announcement when they converted from paratransits was to look for a blue bus. An Orion has run there occasionally, but very occasionally.

My thinking was the Orions can run the regular SW fixed routes while the El Dorados are running the 895.  40 footers will always be needed on the 379 and 381 (although 2814 was on the 379 on a weeknight rush hour last week).  SW has a lot of El Dorados now because in addition to the ones running on 895 this morning, several were running on Routes 382, 384, 385, and 386.   

[Busjack]

My thinking was the Orions can run the regular SW fixed routes while the El Dorados are running the 895.  40 footers will always be needed on the 379 and 381 (although 2814 was on the 379 on a weeknight rush hour last week).  SW has a lot of El Dorados now because in addition to the ones running on 895 this morning, several were running on Routes 382, 384, 385, and 386.   

The ones (2814-2825) on the routes you mentioned have been running there ever since they were received at SW as part of the 58 TIGER buses Then, when SW took over 895, 2787-2792 were sent over from NW to SW, so any perceived need has been met.

Now, what Pace does with SW when it decides to scrap Orions is another question.

[BusHunter]

I was thinking the same as what Rotjohns said, that most of the newest Orions will head to SW. NW is slowly not having a use for them and now that NS is getting eldos, it would beg the question of how many Orions does NW have left? (this can probably be figured out looking at the fleet totals) That being said NS should be displacing the Nabi's they have. It might be possible that SW will eventually become all NAbi in place of the Orions they have. It's interesting they went to NS versus SW next. I would also put a few eldo's out at River. The #606 needs the bigger buses.

[Busjack]

..... I would also put a few eldo's out at River. The #606 needs the bigger buses.

Heather Armstrong said that about 4 years ago. However, it appears that the split has moved somewhat heavier toward NW. It is also interesting that NW's contribution to the I-90 routes now mostly is Axess buses.

[Busjack]

Playing the "what's not on Webwatch" game, it looks like the main effect of NS getting 6477-6484 is that the 6600s are out of there.

[garmon757]

Playing the "what's not on Webwatch" game, it looks like the main effect of NS getting 6477-6484 is that the 6600s are out of there.

Makes me wonder if they went to South.

[Busjack]

Makes me wonder if they went to South.

Anything is possible, but wouldn't make much sense, as S needs big buses way more than NS, and is going to start getting a new fleet of CNGs in a couple of months. What hit me as strange is that the NS 6200s seem all out there, including on routes like 421.

[BusHunter]

Makes me wonder if they went to South.

You may be right #6641 is on the #349.

[garmon757]

Anything is possible, but wouldn't make much sense, as S needs big buses way more than NS, and is going to start getting a new fleet of CNGs in a couple of months. What hit me as strange is that the NS 6200s seem all out there, including on routes like 421.

True but don't be surprised if the 6200s be gone from NS. I'm pretty sure South would love to get them if that's the case. My biggest concern is Southwest because it's going to get to the point that Pace have to make some tough decisions once all Orion's become obsolete. 

[Busjack]

Makes me wonder if they went to South.

 

You may be right #6641 is on the #349.

I'll have to retract my prior comment. 6664 on 358, 6649 in the garage from 358, 6642 on 366, 6622 on 367. 6676 on 372.

Still doesn't make sense, though.

BTW, it looks like the "white" 6200s W had are also at S, except for 6246 on 330.