NICTD/South Shore Line

[NewFlyerMCI]

Didn't realize we didn't have a dedicated thread for the SSL and search didn't turn anything up (Mods please move if there is one)

https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/south-shore-line-head-says-double-track-project-west-lake-corridor-extension-on-schedule

Both projects are on schedule. Looks like Metra will also be finished with the rehab (or whatever they're doing) for the ~20 Highliners that are being leased to NICTD.

[artthouwill]

2 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Didn't realize we didn't have a dedicated thread for the SSL and search didn't turn anything up (Mods please move if there is one)

https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/south-shore-line-head-says-double-track-project-west-lake-corridor-extension-on-schedule

Both projects are on schedule. Looks like Metra will also be finished with the rehab (or whatever they're doing) for the ~20 Highliners that are being leased to NICTD.

I'm curious about the rehabs.  I can understand why the 1982 cars would need rehabs as those cars are 40 years old.   I'm assuming that Metra is leasing the 2006 Highliners to NICTD, who are 16 years old.  If they are used for the West Lake service,  I would assume that the entire West Lake service will be all high level platforms.   I wouldn't think Metra would let NICTD modify those cars for low level platform boarding unless the center doors can be modified for both low level boarding and accessible boarding.  Remember NICTD has 14 2006 Highliners that have the higj level center doors and high level doors on the Pantagraph end of the cars with trap doors for low level boarding.

I wonder how the double track would work out at the Miller station?    Would it new platform be built for inbound trains or would the side track West of the station be extended to run on the South side of the station. Cutting into the parking lot?

[NewFlyerMCI]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I'm curious about the rehabs.  I can understand why the 1982 cars would need rehabs as those cars are 40 years old.   I'm assuming that Metra is leasing the 2006 Highliners to NICTD, who are 16 years old.  If they are used for the West Lake service,  I would assume that the entire West Lake service will be all high level platforms.   I wouldn't think Metra would let NICTD modify those cars for low level platform boarding unless the center doors can be modified for both low level boarding and accessible boarding.  Remember NICTD has 14 2006 Highliners that have the higj level center doors and high level doors on the Pantagraph end of the cars with trap doors for low level boarding.

Pretty sure the Metra highliners already have a trap door for low-level boarding on each side of the carriage, with one half of the entrance containing the stairs. Additionally, the Highliners seem to only be a repainting job and not a full rehab. Metra tweeted about the work almost a month ago.

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

I wonder how the double track would work out at the Miller station?    Would it new platform be built for inbound trains or would the side track West of the station be extended to run on the South side of the station. Cutting into the parking lot?

Schematic here. Description lifted from Wikipedia: "The renovation will add an additional track to the station and replace the current low-level platform with two high-level platforms (one to the south of each track), making the station accessible to passengers with disabilities. The renovation will also add a new station building, improve the existing parking lot, and add a new parking lot to the west of the station. The renovation also will add a stub track to the east of the station, allowing short-turn trains between Chicago and Miller, replacing the current terminus of Gary Metro Center." It's interesting they want to make Miller the turn-around point instead of keeping it at Gary, but I guess that's the last "urban" stop before the dunes.

[artthouwill]

6 minutes ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

Pretty sure the Metra highliners already have a trap door for low-level boarding on each side of the carriage, with one half of the entrance containing the stairs. Additionally, the Highliners seem to only be a repainting job and not a full rehab. Metra tweeted about the work almost a month ago.

Schematic here. Description lifted from Wikipedia: "The renovation will add an additional track to the station and replace the current low-level platform with two high-level platforms (one to the south of each track), making the station accessible to passengers with disabilities. The renovation will also add a new station building, improve the existing parking lot, and add a new parking lot to the west of the station. The renovation also will add a stub track to the east of the station, allowing short-turn trains between Chicago and Miller, replacing the current terminus of Gary Metro Center." It's interesting they want to make Miller the turn-around point instead of keeping it at Gary, but I guess that's the last "urban" stop before the dunes.

Turning Miller into a high platform station makes sense.  At some point. Something similar should happen in Michigan City.

[NewFlyerMCI]

26 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

Turning Miller into a high platform station makes sense.  At some point. Something similar should happen in Michigan City.

No word on Carroll Ave, but 11th St is closed until 2024 for this purpose I believe.

[renardo870]

23 hours ago, NewFlyerMCI said:

No word on Carroll Ave, but 11th St is closed until 2024 for this purpose I believe.

I believe all the stations from Gary Metro to Michigan City 11th and Carroll Ave will have high-level platforms.

[busfan2847]

On 11/9/2021 at 10:51 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

No word on Carroll Ave, but 11th St is closed until 2024 for this purpose I believe.

I believe Carroll Ave is to close once the 11th St station reopens in 2024.

[pudgym29]

On 11/9/2021 at 10:15 PM, NewFlyerMCI said:

[edit]

The renovation also will add a stub track to the east of the station, allowing short-turn trains between Chicago and Miller, replacing the current terminus of Gary Metro Center." It's interesting they want to make Miller the turn-around point instead of keeping it at Gary, but I guess that's the last "urban" stop before the dunes.

It is to better serve the 18th Street Brwy.'s Miller Avenue taproom! 

[artthouwill]

I guess I missed something.  I was reading an article in Metra Magazine about a loan of up ymto $203 million from U S.D.O.T to help finance the West Lake extension.   But what caught my eye is that the 8 mile extension from Hammond to Dyer was all single track.  Granted the extension only involves four stations, but single track?  I would have expected for at least Hannibal and Dyer to have two tracks.  Actually I had assumed the entire extension was double tracked .  I would at least hope fie a stub track ie double track at South Hammond  (165th) that would help provide a  20 to 30 minute peak time intervals between West Lake branch trains 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I guess I missed something.  I was reading an article in Metra Magazine about a loan of up ymto $203 million from U S.D.O.T to help finance the West Lake extension.   But what caught my eye is that the 8 mile extension from Hammond to Dyer was all single track.  Granted the extension only involves four stations, but single track?  I would have expected for at least Hannibal and Dyer to have two tracks.  Actually I had assumed the entire extension was double tracked .  I would at least hope fie a stub track ie double track at South Hammond  (165th) that would help provide a  20 to 30 minute peak time intervals between West Lake branch trains 

Here's the official website.The construction updates indicate that most will be on stilts, similar to the RPM. The ROD included engineering drawings, beyond my area of expertise.

Double Track NWI from Gary through Michigan City construction has also started.  This is notable in that (1) both projects are in the same program as Red Line South, which isn't close to construction, and (2) Indiana got the matching funds together, even though state and local governments are not of the same politics.

 

[Busjack]

51 minutes ago, busfan2847 said:

These are the original 26 prototype HL-1 cars 1201-1226. They were surplus on Metra as it has enough HL-2 cars (1227-1386) to meet operational needs. South Shore does need more cars but was unable to source cars matching their existing specifications. They have leased the cars for 15 years from Metra for a $3.519M annual payment. The Autumn 2022 First & Fastest has a photograph of 1201+1202 plus NICTD GP38 1000 at the ceremonial groundbreaking for the new downtown Michigan City station.

Thanks.

The NICTD minutes indicate that the Dual Track NWI project is proceeding rapidly, and the lowest number cars are being rehabbed. This would be the second rehab (the first was to convert all cars from AC to DC), and "unable to source cars matching their existing specifications" would explain why SS is rehabbing 40-year old cars (but I suppose mainline cars have a longer service life than CTA cars do or the original St. Louis and Bombardier rustbucket Highliners did).

I don't know if part of the projects is to build all high level platforms or to add the extra door with a trap that the 300 series cars have.

[Busjack]

Doing a little more sniffing came up with Jan. 2021 NICTD minutes, indicating  that the 26 Metra cars will be put on the South Shore main line, and the rehabbed existing South Shore cars will go on the West Lake Corridor. Main issue mentioned in the minutes was that only ME and SS use that type of catenary power system. Similar explanation from Lakeshore Public Radio.

Update: It looks like the link in @NewFlyerMCI's post, above, had the essential information. I shuddah looked.

Also, a Metra facebook of 1201-1202.

[curiousgent31385]

After Emerson, why is there only a single track on the South Shore Line? 

https://www.chicagorailfan.com/mmss.html

[Busjack]

4 minutes ago, curiousgent31385 said:

After Emerson, why is there only a single track on the South Shore Line? 

https://www.chicagorailfan.com/mmss.html

Maybe you should look up Double Track NWI.

[busfan2847]

25 minutes ago, curiousgent31385 said:

After Emerson, why is there only a single track on the South Shore Line? 

https://www.chicagorailfan.com/mmss.html

Busiest part of the line has always been Chicago to Gary. Before NICTD there were regular Chicago Gary all station services every hour as well as hourly Chicago to South Bend expresses stopping at Kensington, Hammond and East Chicago between Chicago and Gary. This gave a 30 minute service to Gary (there were 13 stops between Kensington and Gary in 1957). East of Gary, with an hourly service, a single track with passing loops was all that was needed.

NICTD are now double tracking all the way from Gary to Michigan City

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, busfan2847 said:

Busiest part of the line has always been Chicago to Gary. Before NICTD there were regular Chicago Gary all station services every hour as well as hourly Chicago to South Bend expresses stopping at Kensington, Hammond and East Chicago between Chicago and Gary. This gave a 30 minute service to Gary (there were 13 stops between Kensington and Gary in 1957). East of Gary, with an hourly service, a single track with passing loops was all that was needed.

NICTD are now double tracking all the way from Gary to Michigan City

That probably explains how a single track was sufficient until recent times, but not why the line was built that way some 100 years ago. Most likely reason, as discussed in whether Metra would hypothetically take over interurbans, is that interurbans were built to streetcar standards. Part of Double Track NWI is getting the tracks out of the street in Michigan City, and I vaguely remember the train running on Chicago Ave. in East Chicago. The only reasons the South Shore was able to survive into the NICTD takeover appear to be traffic from Gary and stations west (as you noted), growing up into being a commuter railroad, and access via the IC. However, NICTD must be foreseeing more traffic east of Gary, as Double Track NWI includes rebuilding stations and expanding parking lots.

One could ask why the West Lake Corridor is being built single track, but it is.

[renardo870]

 From Busjack "One could ask why the West Lake Corridor is being built single track, but it is."

Is there enough space to double track West Lake Corridor in the future if demand warrants it? Hopefully they did it this way so NICTD wouldn't have to purchase additional land.

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, renardo870 said:

 From Busjack "One could ask why the West Lake Corridor is being built single track, but it is."

Is there enough space to double track West Lake Corridor in the future if demand warrants it? Hopefully they did it this way so NICTD wouldn't have to purchase additional land.

It's mostly on Monon ROW, so the land should be sufficient. Most of the land acquisition was around the stations (the land at South Hammond is the former site of the Monon yard and shop). What may be the rub is that the conceptual drawings show elevated tracks and platforms of some type. (references in the Feb. 6 Construction Update to retaining walls imply embankment).

[pudgym29]

7 hours ago, Busjack said:

That probably explains how a single track was sufficient until recent times, but not why the line was built that way some 100 years ago. Most likely reason, as discussed in whether Metra would hypothetically take over interurbans, is that interurbans were built to streetcar standards. Part of Double Track NWI is getting the tracks out of the street in Michigan City, and I vaguely remember the train running on Chicago Ave. in East Chicago. The only reasons the South Shore was able to survive into the NICTD takeover appear to be traffic from Gary and stations west (as you noted), growing up into being a commuter railroad, and access via the IC. However, NICTD must be foreseeing more traffic east of Gary, as Double Track NWI includes rebuilding stations and expanding parking lots.

One could ask why the West Lake Corridor is being built single track, but it is.

In the Autumn 2022 issue of "First & Fastest" [Shore Line], in an article written by its Managing Editor, pg. 70 reveals an important detail about the construction of the South Shore Line.
[fair use] [Sam Insull and Britton I. Budd] traveled on the South Shore Line to South Bend and the Chicago South Bend & Northern Indiana to Elkhart and Goshen.
..Sam [Insull] said that when they traversed the "s" curve in Michigan City between 10th and 11th Streets they looked at each other and said, "That is an MCB curve." MCB were the initials for Master Car Builders who, at that time developed and published standards for steam railroad freight and passenger cars. In other words, you could operate steam railroad freight cars in interchange service over the South Shore Line despite its running in the streets of South Bend, Michigan City, and East Chicago. This meant that coal could be shipped to the Michigan City generating station over the South Shore with NIPSCO as the customer and the South Shore as the terminating carrier allowing the railroad to get a disproportionate share of the freight rate division.

Such that the South Shore Line was built to railroad, not streetcar, standards, the elder Insull bought the South Shore Line to support his electricity interests. The freight business illuminates how the South Shore Line was able to last long enough to attract governmental subsidies.

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, pudgym29 said:

In the Autumn 2022 issue of "First & Fastest" [Shore Line], in an article written by its Managing Editor, pg. 70 reveals an important detail about the construction of the South Shore Line.
[fair use] [Sam Insull and Britton I. Budd] traveled on the South Shore Line to South Bend and the Chicago South Bend & Northern Indiana to Elkhart and Goshen.
..Sam [Insull] said that when they traversed the "s" curve in Michigan City between 10th and 11th Streets they looked at each other and said, "That is an MCB curve." MCB were the initials for Master Car Builders who, at that time developed and published standards for steam railroad freight and passenger cars. In other words, you could operate steam railroad freight cars in interchange service over the South Shore Line despite its running in the streets of South Bend, Michigan City, and East Chicago. This meant that coal could be shipped to the Michigan City generating station over the South Shore with NIPSCO as the customer and the South Shore as the terminating carrier allowing the railroad to get a disproportionate share of the freight rate division.

Such that the South Shore Line was built to railroad, not streetcar, standards, the elder Insull bought the South Shore Line to support his electricity interests. The freight business illuminates how the South Shore Line was able to last long enough to attract governmental subsidies.

That much is correct, in that South Shore had a freight business, and when the C&O controlled it, people in NW Indiana expected it to use freight revenue to subsidize passenger service. The freight was split off and is now owned by Anacostia. Nonetheless, there was a lot of street running in East Chicago, Michigan City, and South Bend, and a minor impetus behind Double Track NWI was that PTC wasn't effective in street traffic.

Insull controlled most all of the area interurbans and rapid transit, but it wasn't so much to haul coal as that Comm Ed and NIPSCO had a captive customer, except, starting with the Lake St. L, it didn't pay its electric bills.

Also, it was never the IHB, EJ&E, Nickle Plate, PRR, or NYC, which were the dominant railroads serving the steel and related industries.

[busfan2847]

23 hours ago, Busjack said:

That probably explains how a single track was sufficient until recent times, but not why the line was built that way some 100 years ago. Most likely reason, as discussed in whether Metra would hypothetically take over interurbans, is that interurbans were built to streetcar standards. Part of Double Track NWI is getting the tracks out of the street in Michigan City, and I vaguely remember the train running on Chicago Ave. in East Chicago. The only reasons the South Shore was able to survive into the NICTD takeover appear to be traffic from Gary and stations west (as you noted), growing up into being a commuter railroad, and access via the IC. However, NICTD must be foreseeing more traffic east of Gary, as Double Track NWI includes rebuilding stations and expanding parking lots.

One could ask why the West Lake Corridor is being built single track, but it is.

According to Middleton's book South Shore, as built by the Chicago, Lake Shore & South Bend Railway in 1906-8 the complete line from Hammond to South Bend was built as single track with passing loops, with most built on a private right-of-way a minimum 66' wide. Opening on 6th Sep 1908, service was extended to Pullman on the IC Main line 4th April 1909. By 1910 it was realized that the single track west of Gary was inadequate for the 54 train schedule and this section was double-tracked completed in late October 1910. The street running in East Chicago ended on 15th Sep 1956 when the new East Chicago bypass line opened.

[Nitro]

Could the NICTD convert their voltage to 12-12.5 Kv like the New Haven Line or the Northeast Corridor?

[Busjack]

32 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Could the NICTD convert their voltage to 12-12.5 Kv like the New Haven Line or the Northeast Corridor?

Again WHY?

Also, this is stupid. NICTD has to be compatible with Metra and is already rehabbibg its cars or leasing rehabbed ME cars/

Do you post on NY regional forums if their cars could run on 1500 volts? Obviously, from your profile and posts, you are not from Chicago nor familiar with it.

[Nitro]

20 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Again WHY?

Also, this is stupid. NICTD has to be compatible with Metra and is already rehabbibg its cars or leasing rehabbed ME cars/

Do you post on NY regional forums if their cars could run on 1500 volts? Obviously, from your profile and posts, you are not from Chicago nor familiar with it.

No there is too much drama in between them. I'd want no part of that and all I want is to ask questions. I know somewhat of the Chicago's rail systems though not all of it though.

[Busjack]

Saw this on TV, but the NWI Times apparently is the original source. Anyway, the Double Track NWI project will be open between Michigan City and Dune Park on Oct.16, and should be complete between Dune Park and Gary Metro Center in May 2024. West Lake Corridor should be open in May 2025.

Also, there is "a project in Chicago to convert a train storage track into a fourth main track as the railroad enters its final phase at Van Buren and Millennium stations. The project, which will also include platform work at the stations, is intended to accommodate the additional 26 trains the Shore intends to run after the Double Track and West Lake projects are completed."

Also, "the West Lake Corridor will be known as the Monon Corridor of the South Shore Line. The existing line from Hammond to Michigan City, tentatively, will be known as the Lakeshore Corridor" pending clearance of the name.