Pulse Cermak Line

[Busjack]

Pace has posted its project page for the Cermak Pulse Line. It's in the project definition phase, with opening projected for 2029.

[strictures]

55 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Pace has posted its project page for the Cermak Pulse Line. It's in the project definition phase, with opening projected for 2029.

Six years away, truly thrilling!

[artthouwill]

3 minutes ago, strictures said:

Six years away, truly thrilling!

Well I guess Halsted  and 95th have more priority and are further into the process.  As for Cermak,  currently most riders west of Harlem board/alight at major points like Manheim,  Oakbrook Mall, Yorktown.  East of Harlem is pretty well covered by CTA and the bus stops east of Home are 1/4 mile apart.  

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

Well I guess Halsted  and 95th have more priority and are further into the process.  As for Cermak,  currently most riders west of Harlem board/alight at major points like Manheim,  Oakbrook Mall, Yorktown.  East of Harlem is pretty well covered by CTA and the bus stops east of Home are 1/4 mile apart.  

There's also stuff like having to get grants (Pace just having received a grant for 95th for) engineering for such things as locating stations, making street alterations for such things as stops, queue jump lanes, etc. (made more complicated by higher volume and speed traffic conditions west of Mannheim).  Since we're dealing with Yorktown, there's also the question whether it will allow a station similar to the one at Golf Mill.

Your comment about east of Harlem implies whether there has to be more coordination with CTA (as on South Halsted) or whether Pulse should stop just once a mile in that stretch (sort of like the stations being more spaced out on Dempster than Milwaukee).

[artthouwill]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

There's also stuff like having to get grants (Pace just having received a grant for 95th for) engineering for such things as locating stations, making street alterations for such things as stops, queue jump lanes, etc. (made more complicated by higher volume and speed traffic conditions west of Mannheim).  Since we're dealing with Yorktown, there's also the question whether it will allow a station similar to the one at Golf Mill.

Your comment about east of Harlem implies whether there has to be more coordination with CTA (as on South Halsted) or whether Pulse should stop just once a mile in that stretch (sort of like the stations being more spaced out on Dempster than Milwaukee).

The only problem with stops being a mile apart east of Harlem is that there are Pace connections every half mile at Oak Park,  Ridgeland,  Austin,  and Central.

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The only problem with stops being a mile apart east of Harlem is that there are Pace connections every half mile at Oak Park,  Ridgeland,  Austin,  and Central.

There's that, but maybe they would have to connect to 21 or 322 local. I'm sure part of the planning/engineering will be passenger counts at each stop (as collected by the IBS).

But it isn't like Milwaukee with 270 once an hour. I noted that stops on Dempster was more widely spaced, but maybe cutting 250 from once every 20 minutes to 30 isn't so bad, and the only transfer other than Davis in Evanston is with 93 at Dodge. Also, as noted in the discussion with @OneofthewillsNW, Pace is certainly not facilitating transfers at the Yellow Line, including with buses that pull into the bus canopy on the CTA station grounds (54A, 97), as well as the train (you can, but you have to cross the street).

[busfan2847]

4 minutes ago, Busjack said:

But it isn't like Milwaukee with 270 once an hour. I noted that stops on Dempster was more widely spaced, but maybe cutting 250 from once every 20 minutes to 30 isn't so bad, and the only transfer other than Davis in Evanston is with 93 at Dodge. Also, as noted in the discussion with @OneofthewillsNW, Pace is certainly not facilitating transfers at the Yellow Line, including with buses that pull into the bus canopy on the CTA station grounds (54A, 97), as well as the train (you can, but you have to cross the street).

The 250 is only every 30 minutes during M-F rush hours. The rest of the time, and on Saturday and Sunday, it is every 60 minutes.

[Tcmetro]

There are some pretty serious sidewalk gaps throughout the corridor that will have to be addressed if they want to push people to the Pulse service.

[artthouwill]

47 minutes ago, Busjack said:

There's that, but maybe they would have to connect to 21 or 322 local. I'm sure part of the planning/engineering will be passenger counts at each stop (as collected by the IBS).

But it isn't like Milwaukee with 270 once an hour. I noted that stops on Dempster was more widely spaced, but maybe cutting 250 from once every 20 minutes to 30 isn't so bad, and the only transfer other than Davis in Evanston is with 93 at Dodge. Also, as noted in the discussion with @OneofthewillsNW, Pace is certainly not facilitating transfers at the Yellow Line, including with buses that pull into the bus canopy on the CTA station grounds (54A, 97), as well as the train (you can, but you have to cross the street).

In a way ur could be,  not from the standpoint of the 21 from the city, but the 322 from Yorktown.   Passengers from West of North Riverside May want to transfer to the 311,, e

E14, 315  and 316.  You know a 322 local will get a service reduction. Like the 250 and the 270

 

 

 

[artthouwill]

11 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

There are some pretty serious sidewalk gaps throughout the corridor that will have to be addressed if they want to push people to the Pulse service.

East of Wolf, there are plenty of sidewalks.  West of Wolf, the stops are sparse but there is sidewalk space for  the vast majority of the route . 

 

 

 

 

[Busjack]

5 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

There are some pretty serious sidewalk gaps throughout the corridor that will have to be addressed if they want to push people to the Pulse service.

 

5 hours ago, artthouwill said:

East of Wolf, there are plenty of sidewalks.  West of Wolf, the stops are sparse but there is sidewalk space for  the vast majority of the route .

The issue seems to be that if Pace wants to meet its additional goal of a pedestrian-friendly streetscape, it will need to coordinate with IDOT and the municipalities, which is another reason the planning process won't be swift.

[Tcmetro]

The latest Pulse newsletter has a map of the Cermak line and stops:

https://www.pacebus.com/sites/default/files/2024-01/Pulse Newsletter_Winter2023-24.pdf

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

The latest Pulse newsletter has a map of the Cermak line and stops:

https://www.pacebus.com/sites/default/files/2024-01/Pulse Newsletter_Winter2023-24.pdf

The map says "Potential stations," and based on how Dempster turned out, I doubt it will make all stops in Berwyn when finally designed.

This map also doesn't mention any interchange with the proposed Tri-State flex lane bus at the Cermak toll plaza.

[artthouwill]

32 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The map says "Potential stations," and based on how Dempster turned out, I doubt it will make all stops in Berwyn when finally designed.

This map also doesn't mention any interchange with the proposed Tri-State flex lane bus at the Cermak toll plaza.

I would suppose any contribution with Cermak or Cermak Pulse with a Tri State route would have to be done at Oakbrook Mall.  At Cermak there's only a Northbound entrance and a Southbound exit.  Nor a practical place to put a station on either  

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, artthouwill said:

I would suppose any contribution with Cermak or Cermak Pulse with a Tri State route would have to be done at Oakbrook Mall.  At Cermak there's only a Northbound entrance and a Southbound exit.  Nor a practical place to put a station on either  

The stop for Cermak buses wouldn't be actually on the tollway. It would be on local access, and the tollway bus would stop where the now deactivated cash lanes are. The report mentions the I-90 Barrington Road station, where the On Demand has a stop south of I-90.Look at the discussion starting at page 47 of the pdf of the report.

However, it also said with respect to bus routes to be studied:

6a. Oakbrook Center-Rosemont: Alternative 6a ranked ninth among the thirteen routes. Although this performance was comparatively low, connecting two major transit centers may be  an important strategic consideration for Pace. The Oakbrook Center location would also be served by two future Pulse Lines, Cermak Road and Roosevelt Road, further emphasizing the importance of this location. While the in-line station at the Cermak Toll Plaza site is recommended to advance, the effectiveness of this improvement to connect with Oak Brook destinations further west is uncertain. For these reasons, it was recommended that the Oakbrook Center-Rosemont route be advanced for additional study.

[Tcmetro]

19 hours ago, Busjack said:

The map says "Potential stations," and based on how Dempster turned out, I doubt it will make all stops in Berwyn when finally designed.

This map also doesn't mention any interchange with the proposed Tri-State flex lane bus at the Cermak toll plaza.

I'm most interested in seeing how they handle routing at Oak Brook Center and North Riverside Park Mall. The map suggests that they are considering moving the stop at Oak Brook. It's a little more difficult to tell for North Riverside.

[Busjack]

21 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

I'm most interested in seeing how they handle routing at Oak Brook Center and North Riverside Park Mall. The map suggests that they are considering moving the stop at Oak Brook. It's a little more difficult to tell for North Riverside.

It's no longer worth it to stop at North Riverside. The question related to Oakbrook is related to that Pace had to come to a property rights agreement with the owners of Golf Mill to build a station there. I suppose similar would be necessary with Oakbrook, especially if the intent is to make it a major transfer hub.Thus, I would not automatically assume the same bus stop lanes.