And the next garage to get New Flyers is...

[Guest ctafan630]

Why did you have to ask his age? But anyway, yes, I agree with Busjack when he says that those routes would not have needed artics.

I agree these routes never did need an artic considering they are running the Optima buses at times on the 81W today. However I remember riding an artic on that route that day. I am just considering it an "weird bus sighting". I guess I just got lucky that day and the chances of it happening again are .000001%

[jajuan]

FYI: CTA has confirmed that Chicago Ave. is part of the BRT project.

I guess this disclosure throws all prior calculations out, so I guess it doesn't pay to hotly dispute, when only CTA has the inside information, and isn't divulging it.

One could probably conclude that Chicago Garage has more D40LFs than what it will eventually need. Gentlemen and ladies, start your calculators.

I just read the story from the link and from the map shown, it will be Halsted between North Ave and approximately Madison or Washington, Chicago between Lake Shore and Grand, 79th between Ashland and the Ryan, and Jeffery from 67th and 87th designated for the initial 10 miles of BRT. Initially the bus lanes will operate only during rush hour. However in the long term beyond the initial test, they plan to use the bus lanes during all hours of the routes' service. I also read in the story that $36.9 million of the grant money will go for the purchase of new buses to be used specifically for BRT. So it looks like Busjack was right that CTA is getting more hybrids than the 150 from the Seattle/King County lease agreement. The question now is will they definitely be Arctics like the new Seattle Arctics or 40 foot models as was implied in initial news reports from the day of the announcement when 807 was used to ferry Daley, Huberman and the Transportation Secretary around different parts of the city when the program was announced.

There is definitely conflicting info floating around. The mayor is quoted as saying that it would be the 150 buses leased from Seattle being used for the program, and now the current Tribune story says that part of the money from the grant will be used to buy new buses. Which is it going to be? Or will those plus the additional buses bought through the federal grant be used for BRT?

[wordguy]

I just read the story from the link and from the map shown, it will be Halsted between North Ave and approximately Madison or Washington, Chicago between Lake Shore and Grand, 79th between Ashland and the Ryan, and Jeffery from 67th and 87th designated for the initial 10 miles of BRT. Initially the bus lanes will operate only during rush hour. However in the long term beyond the initial test, they plan to use the bus lanes during all hours of the routes' service. I also read in the story that $36.9 million of the grant money will go for the purchase of new buses to be used specifically for BRT. So it looks like Busjack was right that CTA is getting more hybrids than the 150 from the Seattle/King County lease agreement. The question now is will they definitely be Arctics like the new Seattle Arctics or 40 foot models as was implied in initial news reports from the day of the announcement when 807 was used to ferry Daley, Huberman and the Transportation Secretary around different parts of the city when the program was announced.

There is definitely conflicting info floating around. The mayor is quoted as saying that it would be the 150 buses leased from Seattle being used for the program, and now the current Tribune story says that part of the money from the grant will be used to buy new buses. Which is it going to be? Or will those plus the additional buses bought through the federal grant be used for BRT?

===I'm puzzled too. While this is merely guesswork, $36.9 million would buy about 90 standard hybrid buses at slightly over $400k per unit. (I'm basing this assumption on the $412k cost per unit for a recent New York City order of Orion VII hybrids.) Then again, one of the designated routes, the Jeffery Express uses Artics. (79th St. and Chicago Ave. could probably use them too). That same $36.9 million would buy a smaller number of Artics, which probably wouldn't be enough to equip all four routes during peak periods.

So, maybe the grant buses WOULD be Artics and possibly SOME of the 150 leased Artics would be designated for the BRT. Again, just speculation.

Another item mentioned in that Tribune article as part of the new program is the plan to place bus stops at half-mile intervals as well as a proposal for "public bicycles". This arrangement might work for CTA riders who are young and able-bodied, but it could pose difficulties for customers who aren't as spry and have trouble walking great distances.

[BusHunter]

Are you saying the CTA never ran artics out of FG regularly on any route or are you saying the runs out of FG never had an artic?

I hate to break it to you guys but the #7000's ran out of Fg for a limited time according to this picture I'm looking at in the MCA books. It shows a picture of #7006 At Jeff Pk. terminal. It says under the picture "Here is #7006 at Jefferson Park on February 24,1979 on it's very first day in revenue service." So the #7000's ran at Fg most likely in the experimental stages which lead it to serve at NP. BTW, I also seen a Nf I believe it was #1463 working the foster route to Jeff Pk. back in december. Ironically it was the same day Ron Huberman was there checking up on the Blue line shuttle. I don't know if that was for his benefit or what but it was strange to see a new flyer in the #92 bay. As he sat there the destination changed to Broadway and he took off. But he did drop off passengers, i did see that. Also remember when #6756 was new, it was running on the broadway in np service. They had a few others up to #6759 I believe. So buses get around anything's possible.

[jajuan]

I hate to break it to you guys but the #7000's ran out of Fg for a limited time according to this picture I'm looking at in the MCA books. It shows a picture of #7006 At Jeff Pk. terminal. It says under the picture "Here is #7006 at Jefferson Park on February 24,1979 on it's very first day in revenue service." So the #7000's ran at Fg most likely in the experimental stages which lead it to serve at NP. BTW, I also seen a Nf I believe it was #1463 working the foster route to Jeff Pk. back in december. Ironically it was the same day Ron Huberman was there checking up on the Blue line shuttle. I don't know if that was for his benefit or what but it was strange to see a new flyer in the #92 bay. As he sat there the destination changed to Broadway and he took off. But he did drop off passengers, i did see that. Also remember when #6756 was new, it was running on the broadway in np service. They had a few others up to #6759 I believe. So buses get around anything's possible.

You're right anything is possible.

Assuming that Kedzie's second set of New Flyers will run up to 100 buses, what logical spot would any of you would say is next for 1730-18xx?

Also saw 1645 back in action this weekend on the 12 Roosevelt. I know it had to have been in service on other routes but it's the first time I saw it back on Roosevelt since the day I spotted it with some engine kinks a month ago.

[Busjack]

You're right anything is possible.

Assuming that Kedzie's second set of New Flyers will run up to 100 buses, what logical spot would any of you would say is next for 1730-18xx?

If they are doing getting rid of the 4400s, probably NP or 103rd again. 103rd has the most junk.

But, as I previously said, where the DE60LFs go may enter into the calculation. What if there is an intent to start replacing NABIs on 14 with them? The August start date for the DE60LFs starts to overlap this delivery horizon.

I probably wouldn't assume that Kedzie's permanent allocation will be about 225 D40LFs/DE40LFs, given the Halsted announcement and maybe moving some NABIs from 103rd. While 77th undoubtedly will get DE60LFs for 79, maybe it will also get them for other routes, or again some of the NABIs back.

As I have frequently proven, I am not the one with the inside information.

[jajuan]

If they are doing getting rid of the 4400s, probably NP or 103rd again. 103rd has the most junk.

But, as I previously said, where the DE60LFs go may enter into the calculation. What if there is an intent to start replacing NABIs on 14 with them? The August start date for the DE60LFs starts to overlap this delivery horizon.

I probably wouldn't assume that Kedzie's permanent allocation will be about 225 D40LFs, given the Halsted announcement and maybe moving some NABIs from 103rd. While 77th undoubtedly will get DE60LFs for 79, maybe it will also get them for other routes, or again some of the NABIs back.

As I have frequently proven, I am not the one with the inside information.

I was speculating 103rd as well given the fact that 103rd does still have the most junk. You have a point about Kedzie's Flyer count given the Halsted announcement. However, even given that I'm seeing that allotment too hard hit because I really don't see too many other Kedzie routes needing a 60 foot bus beyond what already gets 60 footers. It would make more sense to me to return some NABIs to 77th instead of trying to stack anymore at Kedzie. It already makes no sense to me that so many midday 145 runs on weekdays are NABIs given ridership isn't as heavy. I see a lot of those NABIs barely at half capacity in the midday. But of course it's not the first or last time that there are what might be to some of us misallocation of resources. I do take into consideration though the complications of working out a bus schedule.

[Busjack]

Another thing to add to your calculations: This Tribune article that 3 track will be over by the end of this year, not June 2009. 60 buses no longer needed that much sooner.

[jajuan]

1675 is in service on the 126 Jackson. I saw 1680 pulling into Kedzie garage displaying 'CTA PROGRAM' flip to '3/23/08' on its destination sign. I also saw 1684 parked inside the garage at the same time that I saw 1675 and 1680.

[nflyer22]

1675 is in service on the 126 Jackson. I saw 1680 pulling into Kedzie garage displaying 'CTA PROGRAM' flip to '3/23/08' on its destination sign. I also saw 1684 parked inside the garage at the same time that I saw 1675 and 1680.

Wow, those deliveries are coming in pretty fast, seeing I just saw 1670 just last Friday, and now we're up to at least 1684.

[jajuan]

Wow, those deliveries are coming in pretty fast, seeing I just saw 1670 just last Friday, and now we're up to at least 1684.

Yes that's true considering the highest I physically had seen before then was 1671 though others had said they'd seen higher.

[jajuan]

I managed to ride 1681 on the 126 Jackson last night and 1680 on the 145 this morning. It's rare that I manage to ride more than one new bus so soon after being delivered in such a small time frame.

[geneking7320]

I managed to ride 1681 on the 126 Jackson last night and 1680 on the 145 this morning. It's rare that I manage to ride more than one new bus so soon after being delivered in such a small time frame.

Not to mention that the vehicle numbers were successive. :D

[jajuan]

Not to mention that the vehicle numbers were successive.

You know what Gene, that particular fluke went right over my head until you mentioned it. I hadn't even consciously noticed.

[Guest]

You know what Gene, that particular fluke went right over my head until you mentioned it. I hadn't even consciously noticed.

Im sure some new deliveries are arriving today, maybe higher 1680s or 90s, were knocking on the door of the 1700s. Unbelieveable at the speed the New Flyer deliveries are arriving. There are only just over 300 out of 1030 left for delivery, almost 700 delivered so far. We could see the 1700s possibly by next weekend or within the next two weeks. I wonder when FG will be getting theirs .

[jajuan]

Im sure some new deliveries are arriving today, maybe higher 1680s or 90s, were knocking on the door of the 1700s. Unbelieveable at the speed the New Flyer deliveries are arriving. There are only just over 300 out of 1030 left for delivery, almost 700 delivered so far. We could see the 1700s possibly by next weekend or within the next two weeks. I wonder when FG will be getting theirs .

It's likely the won't be. With Huberman's consolidation plan in effect, the remaining 1991 buses are assigned in such a way that garages that already have 1000s will see a second delivery of New Flyers before any new garages see any. The exception is Chicago garage. Its 60 5300s equal the number of extra buses added to its roster to implement 3Track operations. So the other garages still having 1991 buses will leave only about 100 buses to assign to a garage outside of Kedzie, NP and 103rd (the garages with sizable 1991 numbers to permanently replace). There are those of us hoping that the part of CTA management in charge bus assignments will see the error of its ways and divert those buses to 74th for the partial retirement of 6000s that's coming since it's been 13 years since 74th received new buses. Giving them to FG would shortchange 74th yet again, given FG was on the list for new equipment when the Novas were being delivered. If Huberman hadn't insisted on bus consolidation, then we probably could have said for sure both 74th and FG would have 1000s given 1030 buses would account for more than half of the CTA fleet under normal operations. That would be enough to spread them out over all 8 garages. But of course the consolidation plan threw that out of whack.

[Guest]

Since I live near the Kennedy Expy, I sometimes have the urge to see if any new deliveries arrive from Minn. But you just never know when theyre going to pass, they can come at anytime of the day. What I have noticed is that lots of deliveries tend to happen on saturdays in the early mornings or early afternoon.

[nflyer22]

It's likely the won't be. With Huberman's consolidation plan in effect, the remaining 1991 buses are assigned in such a way that garages that already have 1000s will see a second delivery of New Flyers before any new garages see any. The exception is Chicago garage. Its 60 5300s equal the number of extra buses added to its roster to implement 3Track operations. So the other garages still having 1991 buses will leave only about 100 buses to assign to a garage outside of Kedzie, NP and 103rd (the garages with sizable 1991 numbers to permanently replace). There are those of us hoping that the part of CTA management in charge bus assignments will see the error of its ways and divert those buses to 74th for the partial retirement of 6000s that's coming since it's been 13 years since 74th received new buses. Giving them to FG would shortchange 74th yet again, given FG was on the list for new equipment when the Novas were being delivered. If Huberman hadn't insisted on bus consolidation, then we probably could have said for sure both 74th and FG would have 1000s given 1030 buses would account for more than half of the CTA fleet under normal operations. That would be enough to spread them out over all 8 garages. But of course the consolidation plan threw that out of whack.

Yep, loved the New Flyers at Archer, rode them everyday to school on the 62 Archer, but now I have turned to the 24 Wentworth for my New Flyer craving.

Since I live near the Kennedy Expy, I sometimes have the urge to see if any new deliveries arrive from Minn. But you just never know when theyre going to pass, they can come at anytime of the day. What I have noticed is that lots of deliveries tend to happening on saturdays in the early mornings or early afternoon.

Hmm, kinda interesting to know, yet most of the time I'm not even awake yet! Besides, I don't even live close to the Kennedy, but hey, lucky for you who do!

[BusHunter]

I managed to ride 1681 on the 126 Jackson last night and 1680 on the 145 this morning. It's rare that I manage to ride more than one new bus so soon after being delivered in such a small time frame.

Did you see the different interior light fixtures on #1680. I boarded this bus myself yesterday on the Halsted route and was somewhat shocked to see yet a different light bar fixture on it. I couldn't really tell if it was LED or not. It seemed more like #1276's fixture which is LED but not the same as the #1630's LED. That makes three different light bar setups on the #1000 fleet so far. If your interested there's also three different floor styles floating around on the #1000's as well.

[BusHunter]

Im sure some new deliveries are arriving today, maybe higher 1680s or 90s, were knocking on the door of the 1700s. Unbelieveable at the speed the New Flyer deliveries are arriving. There are only just over 300 out of 1030 left for delivery, almost 700 delivered so far. We could see the 1700s possibly by next weekend or within the next two weeks. I wonder when FG will be getting theirs .

If Fg gets any 1000's I would say that it would be at the end of the order. Like #1930 - #2029. Fg always seems to get in on the tail end of bus orders if you look in their past. #6883, #9974, and even the albino's delivered to them after they were used in RTA service. Right now 103rd could use the #1000's more, but towards the tail end of the order, it is a toss up between 74th and FG. Strange as it sounds they may very well be the last two garages to receive #1000's. It all depends on where the New Flyer artics go, but I just don't see enough of them at FG to justify replacing between 90 -95 #6000's.

[jajuan]

Did you see the different interior light fixtures on #1680. I boarded this bus myself yesterday on the Halsted route and was somewhat shocked to see yet a different light bar fixture on it. I couldn't really tell if it was LED or not. It seemed more like #1276's fixture which is LED but not the same as the #1630's LED. That makes three different light bar setups on the #1000 fleet so far. If your interested there's also three different floor styles floating around on the #1000's as well.

Since it was morning at the time that I rode 1680, I really wasn't paying attention. I just assumed it was the same as the other Option 3 buses at Kedzie. If I happen to ride it at night I'll keep an eye out for it.

[jajuan]

If Fg gets any 1000's I would say that it would be at the end of the order. Like #1930 - #2029. Fg always seems to get in on the tail end of bus orders if you look in their past. #6883, #9974, and even the albino's delivered to them after they were used in RTA service. Right now 103rd could use the #1000's more, but towards the tail end of the order, it is a toss up between 74th and FG. Strange as it sounds they may very well be the last two garages to receive #1000's. It all depends on where the New Flyer artics go, but I just don't see enough of them at FG to justify replacing between 90 -95 #6000's.

I also think we need to take into consideration that the retirements among the 6000s may be split between both garages instead of concentrated at only one garage over the other. Some of our past post including my own were going with the thought that half retirements would only happen at one garage. If the retirements are split, then Arctics could be sent to either one and increase chances that at least one will not see any 1000s.

[jajuan]

Got to experience 1684 in action. I rode it on the 148 this morning. So far it's still the highest numbered new bus I've seen so far. I passed by Kedzie garage this morning, and the only Flyers that were parked in view inside the garage were buses from its original complement numbered in the 1100s and 1200s along with a few hybrids from each hybrid series. If there are some new arrivals higher than 1684, I haven't seen any of them yet. Perhaps some other members have seen something.

[nflyer22]

Nope, I personally haven't seen anything higher than 1673, rode it yesterday on the 18 16th/18th. The LEDs inside were so cool! Like a whole 'nother dimension!

Off topic, but I also rode 6306 on the 53A South Pulaski yesterday, and I have to admit, the Cummins engine sounds similar to the engine (whatever the type is, I really dunno ) in the Novas.

[BusHunter]

Got to experience 1684 in action. I rode it on the 148 this morning. So far it's still the highest numbered new bus I've seen so far. I passed by Kedzie garage this morning, and the only Flyers that were parked in view inside the garage were buses from its original complement numbered in the 1100s and 1200s along with a few hybrids from each hybrid series. If there are some new arrivals higher than 1684, I haven't seen any of them yet. Perhaps some other members have seen something.

There is higher than #1684 on the street. #1686 was on the 8 on saturday. As far as the interior lighting I was talking about before, all NF's #1678 and above have the newer interior lightbar setup. You should have seen it on #1684. It seems the newer lights provide more light than the #1630's setup. But to me they are less attractive to look at. I wish we could get the old setup back. In other news, something you might be interested in. #1658 sports a black floor that looks identical to the #2200's blue line cars with the white marble swirl that's in it. That makes four different floor variations.