CTA Award for New Lo/No Buses

[Tcmetro]

CTA just got a Low-No grant of $121 million to purchase hybrid buses. It doesn't seem that any agency received a grant for electric buses.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grants/fy25-fta-bus-and-low-and-no-emission-grant-awards

[Busjack]

2 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

CTA just got a Low-No grant of $121 million to purchase hybrid buses. It doesn't seem that any agency received a grant for electric buses.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grants/fy25-fta-bus-and-low-and-no-emission-grant-awards

Didn't say 40' or 60'.Someone pointed out that NF's website didn't mention a 60' hybrid, but that probably doesn't mean they won't do it.

[Bus1883]

9 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

CTA just got a Low-No grant of $121 million to purchase hybrid buses. It doesn't seem that any agency received a grant for electric buses.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grants/fy25-fta-bus-and-low-and-no-emission-grant-awards

Hope we get more flyers

[MetroShadow]

11 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

CTA just got a Low-No grant of $121 million to purchase hybrid buses. It doesn't seem that any agency received a grant for electric buses.

https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/grants/fy25-fta-bus-and-low-and-no-emission-grant-awards

The direction, at least with this administration,  is either Hybrid, Clean Diesel, CNG, or (rarely) hydrogen. Unless the State wants to take that route to an Electric Battery ZEB, it's very unlikely they'll meet those targets.

It also doesn't help that the US Market is reduced to Gillig and NF, and maybe ENC, so we'll see what happens.

8 hours ago, Busjack said:

Didn't say 40' or 60'.Someone pointed out that NF's website didn't mention a 60' hybrid, but that probably doesn't mean they won't do it.

I'd be surprised if they won't entertain an ask from CTA to make them. Little to no market for hybrid 60' buses as it is. 

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

This story says it’s 150 40’ buses 

 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, MetroShadow said:

The direction, at least with this administration,  is either Hybrid, Clean Diesel, CNG, or (rarely) hydrogen. Unless the State wants to take that route to an Electric Battery ZEB, it's very unlikely they'll meet those targets.

It also doesn't help that the US Market is reduced to Gillig and NF, and maybe ENC, so we'll see what happens.

I'd be surprised if they won't entertain an ask from CTA to make them. Little to no market for hybrid 60' buses as it is. 

I don't know about administration policy (maybe Sean Duffy said we won't accept applications for BEBs), but you're clearly correct. Avsearch for "electric" only comes upwith hybrid, including several California grants, even though I thought that state had strict electric bus policies.

New Flyer used to say that it could build any powerrtrain on the Xcelsior platform, but see below.

7 minutes ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

This story says it’s 150 40’ buses 

 

I don't see 40' in the tweet, nor in the Google summary of the source Sun-Times article (S-T apparently shut its paywall, so my former hack doesn't work). However  $807K would require probably $250K in matching funds to pay the about $1.1 million for a 40' hybrid bus Pace just authorized. I guess the grant would pay 50% of the cost of a hybrid artic.

Since Pace is also getting a grant, for $39,780,000, maybe for 50 buses, maybe the two agencies will go ahead with the joint procurement.

[wayfaringrob]

10 hours ago, Busjack said:

S-T apparently shut its paywall, so my former hack doesn't work

The Sun-Times does not have a paywall

[jajuan]

14 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't see 40' in the tweet, nor in the Google summary of the source Sun-Times article (S-T apparently shut its paywall, so my former hack doesn't work). However  $807K would require probably $250K in matching funds to pay the about $1.1 million for a 40' hybrid bus Pace just authorized. I guess the grant would pay 50% of the cost of a hybrid artic.

 

The Sun-Times article gives a direct mention that CTA officials said they'd use the money on 40' hybrids. Given the market shrunk with Nova's exit to concentrate only on Canadian buses, the only manufacturers for hybrids are ENC, Gillig and New Flyer. Either way, the earliest any of them would likely be seen is some time in 2027 given how long we've seen it takes to solicit for contract bids, award the contract and then start building the buses. 

[jtrussel]

As much as I like flyers and probably most on this foreum. It would be nice to see maybe gillig get a chance with cta. The pace hybrid is not a bad looking bus

[Busjack]

Google came up with the following in the 2026 CTA budget (page 84), which is the primar:y source and settles my prior doubt:

In FY2025, CTA applied to both FTA’s Low or No Emission Vehicle
Program and Buses and Bus Facilities grant programs. CTA applied
for $121,125,000 from FY2025 Low or No Emission Grant Program
for the purchase of up to 150 hybrid diesel electric, fully accessible,
40-foot buses

[EasyMoney]

5 hours ago, jtrussel said:

As much as I like flyers and probably most on this foreum. It would be nice to see maybe gillig get a chance with cta. The pace hybrid is not a bad looking bus

I doubt they go with gillig probably go with new flyer just because they been proven already plus NF D40LF Been in service for 15 plus years 

[Elkmn]

15 hours ago, jtrussel said:

As much as I like flyers and probably most on this foreum. It would be nice to see maybe gillig get a chance with cta. The pace hybrid is not a bad looking bus

Gillig has never worked with the CTA, so it's quite unlikely.

[Sam92]

3 minutes ago, Elkmn said:

Gillig has never worked with the CTA, so it's quite unlikely.

Never say never. I'm sure we weren't expecting to go from primarily flyers to primarily NOVA lmao. 

[artthouwill]

11 hours ago, EasyMoney said:

I doubt they go with gillig probably go with new flyer just because they been proven already plus NF D40LF Been in service for 15 plus years 

It will be based on the lowest bid.  While it may seem wild, Gillig and ENC are very real possibilities aa love as they can meet the specs.  As @Busjack mentioned,  there's the possibility of CTA and Pace placing a joint RFP  

[Busjack]

12 hours ago, EasyMoney said:

I doubt they go with gillig probably go with new flyer just because they been proven already plus NF D40LF Been in service for 15 plus years 

If  you are talking 800s ir 4000-4332, that's 16 year old technology that was never very efficient. Anyway, none of the bus assemblers manufacture the powertrains. 

2 hours ago, Elkmn said:

Gillig has never worked with the CTA, so it's quite unlikely.

Pace hadn't worked with Gillig since 1986 (20 35' Phantoms for Waukegan), but is working with them now, and every time the board asks Metzger how the Gillig buses are doing, she says "fine." By the time this order goes in, Pace will have experience with the 25500 series Gillig hybrids.

15 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

It will be based on the lowest bid.  While it may seem wild, Gillig and ENC are very real possibilities aa love as they can meet the specs.  As @Busjack mentioned,  there's the possibility of CTA and Pace placing a joint RFP  

Yes I did, but I don't think the procurement process will be as complex as before, given the lack of competition, cutting down customization, and use of multijurisdict contracts. For instance, Pace hasn't shown the rear of 25500, but I doubt it has the full-width sign.

One thing on which I can bet (and I did with Milennium shill @East New York) is that unless Rivaz/ENC proves that it is a reliable producer, it won't get the contract. It is supposed to be the lowest qualified bidder, and CTA has already been burned by NABI and Proterra. Also, both CTA and Pace must have had some idea what a hybrid bus cost when they requested grnts in specific amounts.

[Elkmn]

If gillig does get the bid then Chicago will be the largest city with gilligs in urban public transit service. The idea of a gillig low floor speeding down Western is still quite a concept to wrap my head around.

[Tcmetro]

I've heard in the past that Gillig generally doesn't submit bids to the largest agencies. There's maybe 10 or so major agencies that don't have any Gillig buses today. They should be considering getting Gillig to bid because it seems like it could become very costly if there's basically no competition.

[MetroShadow]

7 minutes ago, Tcmetro said:

I've heard in the past that Gillig generally doesn't submit bids to the largest agencies. There's maybe 10 or so major agencies that don't have any Gillig buses today. They should be considering getting Gillig to bid because it seems like it could become very costly if there's basically no competition.

Outside of Boston, LA, Chicago, and Houston, that number is dwindling. And until Solaris is successfully in the market, challenging the ZEB approach, they could do smaller batches if needed. 

 

21 hours ago, jtrussel said:

As much as I like flyers and probably most on this foreum. It would be nice to see maybe gillig get a chance with cta. The pace hybrid is not a bad looking bus

I'm surprised they went with the Beluga with the full roof. I've been a fan of the back roof for the last decade (at least since I moved to the Bay Area)...

On 11/21/2025 at 8:22 PM, Busjack said:

I don't know about administration policy (maybe Sean Duffy said we won't accept applications for BEBs), but you're clearly correct. Avsearch for "electric" only comes upwith hybrid, including several California grants, even though I thought that state had strict electric bus policies.

 

Working with colleagues both upstate CA and in the Bay, they're struggling to meet the Air Resources Board's zero-emission by 2040 requirements (that initial decision was contested, and the group is rather controversial from an operator's perspective). However, the feds are more open to hydrogen than electric; and California will still provide grants by their respective Air Districts to make it happen. 

(Although several agencies got money for Hybrids rather than Hydrogen in this cycle, which might dispell the thesis, but this would be the last year that any non-ZEB can be allowed).

 

One other admission: if the specs are similar (instead of customizable by agencies), there might be price breaks to take advantage of, but knowing these two agencies, I doubt it.

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, Elkmn said:

... The idea of a gillig low floor speeding down Western is still quite a concept to wrap my head around.

They probably are not going to 74th. They probably will go to more environmentally-affected areas unless electric buses show up, and CTA's usual practice in the past 30 years has not been to put 22 buses in each of 7 garages.

1 hour ago, MetroShadow said:

...

... However, the feds are more open to hydrogen than electric;... 

(Although several agencies got money for Hybrids rather than Hydrogen in this cycle, which might dispell the thesis, but this would be the last year that any non-ZEB can be allowed).

My impression is that the only difference between a fuel ce;; bus and a BEB is that the fuel cell is a generator that recharges the batteries, while a BEB needs to be connected to the grid, and, until it raches a charger,, is limited by battery capacity. There are infrastructure needs in either case.

1 hour ago, MetroShadow said:

... TOne other admission: if the specs are similar (instead of customizable by agencies), there might be price breaks to take advantage of, but knowing these two agencies, I doubt it.

That brings up Gillig not bidding several Pace contracts (at one meeting staff explicitly said Gillig would not bid) and the White House Roundtable, which said customization was driving up costs. I'm sure stuff like Pace making ENC develop a 30' Axess and only ordering 61 of a contract of up to 165 led to RevGroup dumping it. Similarly, the last time Pace ordeed MCIs, MCI said take it or leave it.