5000 ''L'' Cars.

[jesi2282]

Does Anyone Know When The New 3500 ''L'' Cars Will Come To The CTA? Once They Come What Cars Will Still Be In Service? In Other Words What Cars Will Be Retired.

[Kevin]

CTA's new car order will actually be called the 1000 series. The first prototype will arrive in mid-2008 and full production will begin after a six-month test period.

The initial base order of 206 cars (options exist for up to 706), would either allow for replacement of the 2200s or fleet expansion (the Brown Line will require extra cars following the capacity expansion project). The remaining options would allow for retirement of the 2400s along with any remaining 2200s.

[trainman8119]

I have also heard that the days of the 2200 and 2400 series cars are numbered. Being the only cars with the "blinker" doors, the 2200's have to go because they are not ADA accessible...they don't have the configuration inside for wheelchairs, so they are somewhat limited on how they can be used. Plus, they are the oldest cars in the fleet at this time coming on line in 1969 as part of the Dan Ryan extension and in 1970 as part of the Kennedy extension.

[Busjack]

My guess would be that the 206 cars would completely replace the Brown Line cars (you need 33% more to go from 6 to 8 car trains, which takes you to about 200 cars, and supposedly they aren't electrically compatible with the others), and the present fleet would go to the Blue Line, retiring the 2200s. I liked the 2200s, at least before the last rehab, when they had the black upolstered seats. Look at the CTA's slide show and make your own inference.

[trainman8119]

I also liked the 2200's because of the interior. I think the rehab was bad on those cars. For some reason, there didn't seem to be much as much damage (vandalism) to the seats as you would think. The new seats are not nearly as comfortable as those were. I guess that is progress. I still think the old Pullman's (2000 series) were the sharpest to look at. They did have one unique design.

I think you are correct in the reassignment theory, but more than likely, there would be 2600's going Blue with 3200's staying Red and Purple. It is fun to play along and see what will transpire.

[jesi2282]

Is There Anywhere I Can Go For Some Photos?

[westing]

The future 1000 series cars do not have a manufacturer yet. Bidding will not occur until around this fall. Even then the prototype will not be made until mid-2008. It’s not possible to get a photo them yet.

[Buslover88]

When are we getting the 3500/1000 Series Cars?

[Busjack]

The WLS market report said that Bombardier won the contract for the next series of L cars. However, their press release only indicates that they were named the "preferred bidder," and the contract hasn't been finalized yet. CTA's subsequent press release confirms that the Board approved Bombardier as the contractor.The releases both said that CTA exercised the first option, so the first order will be for 406 cars. This indicates that the 2200s and 2400s are on the way out. According to the CTA release, you won't see a large number until 2010 (which indicates that the ones needed to increase service on the Brown Line may not be available if that project is supposed to be completed in 2009). 10 prototypes are supposed to be ready for testing in 2008.

Newsradio 780's site has a more detailed discussion, including where Kruesi says they may be assigned in 4 years. While this wasn't my first inclination, that is changed by the fact that there is a contract to upgrade the signals on the Blue Line, which would be necessary to run the trains there (apparently the AC conversion equipment interferes with the current signal system).

[RJL6000]

Of the 406 cars to be delivered throughout 2009 and 2010, most of them will replace the 2200 and 2400 series cars (of which 334 of them combined remain in service). The 2200's and 2400's all currently operate on the Blue, Green and Purple Lines - and in the case of the Green Line, it is operated entirely with 2400's as of May 2006. It is very likely that the new cars will simply replace those 334 cars on those three lines, with the remaining 72 cars being assigned to the Brown and (currently forthcoming) Pink Lines for additional capacity.

[Busjack]

I really doubt that the Green Line would get them, given no opportunity to use their high speed capacity on steel elevated structures, according to Newsradio 780, and low demand on the south side portion. (I corrected this, as the construction update indicates that its signals were upgraded.) All reports definitely state that the Brown Line needs 56 more cars. I previously thought assigning all 206 of the base order to the Brown Line would have been more consistent with putting them on a line that will have its signals upgraded and in view of AC cars apparently not being able to train with the DC ones. However, getting 406 would allow reequipping the Blue and Pink Lines, and moving their 2600s to where necessary elsewhere on the system.

Again, the usual caveat that this is speculation about events at least 3 years in the future and none of us has inside information. I'm surprised we don't yet have posts demanding the car numbers.:D

[MetroShadow]

I'll speculate that the 3500's will end up on Blue and Pink, and any remaining Bombardiers will end up on the Brown Line, complimenting whatever 3200's are there. The remaining 2600's will probably shift around and replace the 2400's on both Green and Purple Lines.

I was hoping that maybe the 3200's would go on the red line, but I don't think they deserve that much abuse as the 2600's have seen.

[Busjack]

Speaking of abuse on the Red Line, check out this part of the CTA Tattler .

I also meant to mention that while one would think the Purple Line would be a good candidate for speed reasons (at least between Howard and Belmont), it really isn't because of all the coupling and uncoupling (i.e. 2 cars run northbound from Howard and couple to 4 cars at Linden during the early afternoon) and that, outside of the rush hour, maybe only 8 of the 100 cars are in use.

[Kevin]

The new rail cars will be known as the 5000 Series. A PDF presentation from Wednesday's board meeting complete with mockup renderings of the new cars is available on CTA's web site.

[RJL6000]

The new rail cars will be known as the 5000 Series.

There was an earlier 5000 series, built in 1947-48 by Pullman-Standard (5001-5002) and the St. Louis Car Company (5003-5004) - but only four such cars were built, and the CRT (one of the predecessors to the CTA) made the original order. Those four cars spent their early lives in Evanston and Ravenswood service - until 1965, when they were reassigned to their final home, the Skokie Swift and renumbered 51-54. The cars were retired in 1985; three of them ended up in transportation museums in the Midwest - and only one of those, car #5001 (which resides at the Fox River Trolley Museum in South Elgin, IL), remains in working condition today. (Car #5002/52 is at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union, IL, but stands as a static display there - while #5003/53 is in Monticello, IN, but cannot operate there due to Monticello's trackage lacking overhead wire.)

And the reason as to why only four of the original 5000-series cars were ever built is because the design was later modified and evolved into the (in)famous 6000-series cars of the 1950's. It is ironic that when the 5000's were assigned to the Ravenswood, they were always trained together with the 6000's - usually one 5000 trailing two pairs of 6000's, with a few 5000-6000-5000 combos (one 6000-series pair sandwiched between two single 5000-series cars).

[Busjack]

...A PDF presentation from Wednesday's board meeting complete with mockup renderings of the new cars is available on CTA's web site.

Thanks for the link. I looked a couple of days ago, but it wasn't posted yet.

Looking at this, it appears that outside of the ADA requirements, the longitudinal seating, and loss of the window near the plenum, they do not look much different than the 3200s. Of course, it is also likely that some features were Photoshopped onto a picture of a 3200. Considering that CTA is spending about $1.3 million a car, I would have at least ordered the Chromatic or Spectrum full color destination sign, instead of the amber one mentioned on page 6 of the PDF, so that, for instance, the Pink Line sign would sort of be pink and the Blue Line one blue, which would make a difference on the Douglas, if the experimental rush hour routing stays (compare 6515).

Doesn't look like the cars will have the big bottom seats, or as people on the CTA Tattler wanted, dividers between the pairs of seats so someone couldn't lie down.

I wonder that since full production won't start for 3 years, whether the final specifications will change, as a result of the prototype testing or technological developments over that time.

[geneking7320]

This thought just occurred to me...

When I first rode a NY subway back in 1978 the "straps" for standing riders were actually stainless steel tubes mounted to the horizontal crossbar. If we can't have fully padded seats on CTA trains for fear of vandals - how long will those (as shown in the pictures) straps last?

Gene

[geneking7320]

BTW...

The NY cars I rode were R-46s on the A train.

Some of you traction fans may remember this car was manufactured by Pullman on the far south side of Chicago.

[RJL6000]

It is very likely that the new cars will simply replace those 334 cars on those three lines, with the remaining 72 cars being assigned to the Brown and (currently forthcoming) Pink Lines for additional capacity.

Actually, I was a bit off there. The first 5000's will likely be assigned to the Blue and Pink Lines, with additional units being assigned to the Brown Line. At that time all of the 2200's and 2400's will be retired, and the Green and Purple Lines will then run primarily with 2600's (with a few 3200's mixed in).