Talks are like old CTA buses... breaking down.

[sw4400]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/651836,...S-leg15.article

If Daley, Madigan, and others just can't get it together and stay at a transit meeting to discuss how to fix the cash-strapped CTA's problems, then we won't have any CTA come Jan. 20th. They may as well call it the 'DTA'(Doomsday affected Transit Authority). Instead of talking transit, all Blagojevich does is call Daley and Madigan along with others just to bash the CTA instead of finding a way to solve the problem. And that was a tiny portion of the meeting, the rest was about some stupid casinos and where they can go and who gets them. As far as I'm concerned, the casinos can go to h ll.

Then, the Republicans chime in and say that CTA and Metra must increase their fares... To what??? $7.00/ride like was originally proposed a few years when an old 'Doomsday' scenario cut many bus routes and all "L" train lines except the Blue and Red. Increasing fares isn't enough!!! These 'so called' politicans can't seem to agree on anything these days!!! Instead of using this increased time before the next Doomsday looms, these yahoos want to show the public their 'hissy fits' when they walk out and refuse to attend another Transit Meeting that was utimately cancelled. I hope the Local 308 does do a 'Job Action' to show the Mayor, the Gov., and all these Politicians that the CTA, PACE, and Metra do need a solution to these transit problems now.... not later. I would be willing to support them if they decided to go against a state law and strike. Because this seems to be the only way to smack some sense into a bunch of tight-wads who are only interested in Casinos(Madigan and Blagojevich) and the 2016 Olympics(Daley, BTW, you may not have another term in office with the way your running things right now if my vote has anything to say about it). Olympics are a LONG way off, and I could care less about them. Transit is the issue on the table, and they better do something about it NOW!!!

Kevin, I do apologize for venting a little here. But the copied article from above just blew my top and I just needed to vent some steam somewhere. The CTA is my livelihood, as it is many other peoples'(not just on chicagobus.org, but elsewhere in the City and the surrounding Suburbs(PACE and Metra commuters).

[Busjack]

I noted that the job action threat was made, not at union hall, but at the RTA headquarters. That shows to me who is being complicit. I think that the union should walk, if it legally may. If they can't, they should be willing to take the consequence of civil disobedience.

Daley and Madigan should have stayed at the meeting and tried to get it back on topic. However, I don't agree with the apparent CTA position that fares and service realignment should not be on the table. Notwithstanding that, sw is correct that the legislators have shown themselves to be complete buffoons.

The casinos may be relevant if they raise money without raising taxes. However, I am tired of the Illinois practice (on which I have previously commented) of shifting money around--this time apparently giving the RTA some gas tax money and then filling the hole with casino proceeds. As mentioned yesterday, turning the casinos into a racial issue didn't help any.

Maybe the Governor and BusExpert will ride to the rescue again, but, like you, I am not counting on it.

[trainman8119]

I would like to get one thing clear. As I understand it, it is not illegal for transit workers to strike. It is illegal for transit workers to wildcat strike. A wildcat is an unannounced work action, and if I recall, that is what happened during the (I think) Jane Byrne days. That is what causes utter chaos and I think that is why it has become outlawed. When you get into public service type strikes, usually what happens, the government gets involved, imposes cooling off periods and usually things get hashed out during the cooling off periods. If labor ignors the cooling off period, that is when you get into legal issues. The bottom line, is that calling a strike is usually frugal because everyone steps in and you get nowhere with it. Now, if the union gets together off the record and you get the "blue flu" and nobody shows up to work because all are "sick", that can't be combatted, because, in theory, you can't dispute sickness. What I think is being proposed here is a blue flu, albeit, with notice given to all to find a different way to get around.

As for the politicos again, it is a classic game of chicken. Why should they feel pressure to come up with a solution when the agencies don't implement their alternative issues. That is part of the reason I kept saying that November 4 needed to happen, the sooner the better. I still contend this is not a statewide issue and should be kept to a local matter. What is at play here is that taxes will be raised and the question is, who is going to be the one responsible for raising them. When that happens, and election time comes, the finger pointing will really start. Daley won't raise local taxes to help his own agency. You don't see, say, Al Larsen, say, let's raise taxes in Schaumburg to fund bus operation around Woodfield. You don't see the congressmen from collar suburbs wanting to come out and support a tax to fund Metra. What you do see though, is the classic, give and take. I'll give Chicago the money, if I can set something for me in Collinsville. That is why you see the constant discussion about casino revenue, since that is what will fund downstate roads and whatever. You are seeing the locals here trying to get two pieces of pie, side money for transit along with a second cut as part of the casino proposal...that is why they don't want the two linked together. Frankly, I think all the localities in the metro 6 county area should be responsible for this, not the entire state. And, there should be no monies allocated as long as the CTA, Metra and Pace continue to waste and claim no responsibility for the combined mess they are in.

And, I did find it interesting that the union trumpeted at the RTA meeting/press conference. Boy, talk about a grandstand, ugh !!!

[Busjack]

And, I did find it interesting that the union trumpeted at the RTA meeting/press conference. Boy, talk about a grandstand, ugh !!!

No, I think it is more interesting that the RTA gave the union the RTA's stage. The RTA knew what the union was going to say, and was willing to take advantage of it.

[trainman8119]

No, I think it is more interesting that the RTA gave the union the RTA's stage. The RTA knew what the union was going to say, and was willing to take advantage of it.

Grandstand on part of the RTA, not the union....using the union for their benefit.

[Guest]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/651836,...S-leg15.article

If Daley, Madigan, and others just can't get it together and stay at a transit meeting to discuss how to fix the cash-strapped CTA's problems, then we won't have any CTA come Jan. 20th. They may as well call it the 'DTA'(Doomsday affected Transit Authority). Instead of talking transit, all Blagojevich does is call Daley and Madigan along with others just to bash the CTA instead of finding a way to solve the problem. And that was a tiny portion of the meeting, the rest was about some stupid casinos and where they can go and who gets them. As far as I'm concerned, the casinos can go to h ll.

Then, the Republicans chime in and say that CTA and Metra must increase their fares... To what??? $7.00/ride like was originally proposed a few years when an old 'Doomsday' scenario cut many bus routes and all "L" train lines except the Blue and Red. Increasing fares isn't enough!!! These 'so called' politicans can't seem to agree on anything these days!!! Instead of using this increased time before the next Doomsday looms, these yahoos want to show the public their 'hissy fits' when they walk out and refuse to attend another Transit Meeting that was utimately cancelled. I hope the Local 308 does do a 'Job Action' to show the Mayor, the Gov., and all these Politicians that the CTA, PACE, and Metra do need a solution to these transit problems now.... not later. I would be willing to support them if they decided to go against a state law and strike. Because this seems to be the only way to smack some sense into a bunch of tight-wads who are only interested in Casinos(Madigan and Blagojevich) and the 2016 Olympics(Daley, BTW, you may not have another term in office with the way your running things right now if my vote has anything to say about it). Olympics are a LONG way off, and I could care less about them. Transit is the issue on the table, and they better do something about it NOW!!!

Kevin, I do apologize for venting a little here. But the copied article from above just blew my top and I just needed to vent some steam somewhere. The CTA is my livelihood, as it is many other peoples'(not just on chicagobus.org, but elsewhere in the City and the surrounding Suburbs(PACE and Metra commuters).

I do not think this city deserves the 2016 Olympics. The way this city is run, its pathetic! Theres enough problems with higher taxes, police misconduct, political corruption and they cant even find a solution to the transit crisis. Transit is one of the most important issues that need to be solved and with Mayor Daley walking out of meetings without some sort of solution he is not making any progress. Personally he could care less about our transit crisis, he dosent use it! He dosent have to suffer the traffic nightmares everyone else who lives in this city have to face.

[Busjack]

They just said on WLS890 news that Madigan has agreed to back down on the sales tax and will accept the deal where a portion of the gasoline sales tax goes to transit and is replaced by casino money,.

[geneking7320]

They just said on WLS890 news that Madigan has agreed to back down on the sales tax and will accept the deal where a portion of the gasoline sales tax goes to transit and is replaced by casino money,.

As a follow-up, what do you folks think of Mark Brown's column in today's [11/27/2007] Sun-Times?

[Busjack]

As a follow-up, what do you folks think of Mark Brown's column in today's [11/27/2007] Sun-Times?

A link.

He has his point. However, there is the question about what happened to the $500 million the governor line item vetoed. Also there is the question that if Blagojevich, Madigan and Cross can get along, are there enough votes to meet the 60% requirement, and the Senate Republicans, who do not have a blocking position, then can be locked out.

I had previously noted that the sales tax part of the pump price had gone up. The Republicans rebated that about 7 years ago (in the bad old days of $1.90 a gallon gasoline), but Blago said he couldn't because he needed it for the children. I guess the children will have to wait for the casinos or loopholes to be filled, answering trainman's question on whether the casinos would provide a fast enough bailout for transit.

I'm not sure about the "Blame Mayor Daley" angle. Everyone has plenty of blame at this point.

Also, it seems clear that Blagojevich, Madigan and Hamos don't was to provoke the January Doomsday. I wonder if the latter two knew about the first to bailouts in advance, to allow the Legislature to stall to this point.

[trainman8119]

A link.

I'm not sure about the "Blame Mayor Daley" angle. Everyone has plenty of blame at this point.

Also, it seems clear that Blagojevich, Madigan and Hamos don't was to provoke the January Doomsday. I wonder if the latter two knew about the first to bailouts in advance, to allow the Legislature to stall to this point.

I actually love the Mayor Daley angle. It seems that everyone is to blame but dah mayr himself. The patronage angle is right on (can you say Frank Kruesi). I still wonder why this gas thing is such a mystery, since this was suppose to be the financing for the RTA to start with !!!!!! Where has that money been going all along ???? The new plan definitely appears to be robbing from Peter to pay Paul. Will the farmers downstate catch on to this, unite and kill it all ???? Plus it is coming out that Rod is not paying for the past bailout with money he claimed to be using...it is road and bridge money. He conned the country bumpkins !!!! This is all politics 101 at its dirtiest, and finest. I am sure civics professors are payinig attention to this...could be classroom fodder for months.

I am not too sure what you are saying in the last paragraph though. Are you saying that the 3 listed above are in my view that doomsday has to happen for any positive to come out of this??? I still say, no matter what happens, the CTA will come around with hands out shortly after any money becomes available. Also, Madigan may say he is willing to compromise, but does that mean that he is actively trumping for passage, or is it all show. In the end, somebody will get caught with their pants down...and I think we will all need to keel over in laughter and enjoy it all !!!!

[Busjack]

I am not too sure what you are saying in the last paragraph though.

A typo. Should have said "want," not "was." Their current actions indicate that they don't want doomsday. Now whether it happens seems to depend on downstate. The blame Daley angle in Brown's article seemed to be a cover for downstate voting no. I argued that downstate might be irrelevant if the proponents can scrape up the 60% vote.

In saying there is enough blame to go around, I blame Daley for Kruesi, the patronage, and the "suburbs owe the CTA" campaign. I blame Blago for not negotiating until recently and threatening to veto everything. I blame those state legislators who provided the marginal votes to back that up. I blame Madigan for insisting on the sales tax until the last minute. I blame Hamos for continuing to claim that the bill has reforms, while they are so watered down that the governance provisions are worse than under the current act. I blame all of the politicians for not having the intestinal fortitude to blow up the bureaucratic bloat at all four agencies and just have one governing board, like the MTA, or for not at least reforming the CTA board (especially since Daley appears willing to accept most anything in return for the money). I blame the boards of those agencies (especially the RTA and CTA) for claiming a welfare entitlement to "funding," without doing much of anything to clean their own houses.

Finally, I am saying that the 3 don't agree with you. But it is unclear what would it take to get them off their kiesters.

[trainman8119]

In saying there is enough blame to go around.

Finally, I am saying that the 3 don't agree with you. But it is unclear what would it take to get them off their kiesters.

Actually, the only real true blame is the CTA, Pace and Metra themselves. They should be managing their resources as they have them. When they don't have it, they don't operate it...pure and simple. From that, if government wants to give additional funding, so be it. This is all a total political folly and demonstrates, as many of us have said, that for true survival, these boards need to rid themselves of the political element and find some people who know what they are doing. If they want to stay political, then they should be voted in, so they could be voted out. I know I would run.

As for the the last comment, obviously a politician with any sense of a brain would not want a total meltdown...it wouldn't be in their best interest as a representative, and I realize that. I just wasn't sure exactly what you were saying.

[Kevin]

The gas tax bill was just called for a vote in the House and failed to pass by around 20 correction: 14 votes.

Vote count was 057-053-004.

[sw4400]

Breaking News:

The Lawmakers have Rejected the tranist bailout plan, according to the news and according to this article... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...0,2525303.story

My opinion now that this has happened... Yet Again.... CTA will cut 82 bus routes and increase fares to who knows what... Thank you lawmakers!!! I know who I'm not voting for next election period... Mayor Daley, Michael Madigan, and Gov. Rod Blagoevich(a.k.a The Three Stooges).

[trainman8119]

t... Thank you lawmakers!!! I know who I'm not voting for next election period... Mayor Daley, Michael Madigan, and Gov. Rod Blagoevich(a.k.a The Three Stooges).

If you choose to not to vote for the "Three Stooges", that is you perogative. However, pay attention to what is going on. The three listed above, along with Tom Cross (although I don't know why) all were in favor of the proposal. This is the downstate people standing up and trying to get something for themselves and not get short changed again. Also, as a lawmaker from Lake County stated, "this is not the State of Chicago"...and it is a correct statement. No matter how much Madigan, Daley and Blago push for settling the transit mess alone, it will not get support from outside the Chicago Metro Area unless it is tied to capital improvements, which would benefit everyone else. In other words, you ain't gettin nothin any more unless I get something too. I think the days of the City of Chicago getting everything they want when they want it may be on hiatus for awhile. Don't forget, this gas proposal diverts capital project money away from roads and such. Look at it as downstate driving a Ford Focus while the city is driving a large Hummer. They are sucking up the gas and driving up the cost for everyone.

[Busjack]

If nothing else, it proves that the legislative leaders' letter of November 1 that they would "work the next seven to ten days on funding a much needed capital bill. This should remove the opposition to enacting a long-term comprehensive public transportation plan" was baloney, in the sense of having a real commitment to reach the goals of passing the capital and transit bills within a time frame. Other comments in that letter, such as the reference to "extensive reforms" are also hypocrisy, based on the last bills I saw posted.

Since Daley said he didn't want people worrying over the holidays, the deadline for the next inaction (note, I said inaction) now seems December 24. While the legislative leaders acknowledge that the deal with the union depends on legislation by the end of the year, who knows if they will let that deadline pass.

Also, it appears that the "compromise" got 4 fewer votes than the measure that had the veto threat over it. Strange.

[Kevin]

Also, it appears that the "compromise" got 4 fewer votes than the measure that had the veto threat over it. Strange.

During the debates last night, many lawmakers expressed that they preferred SB572 over the bill being debated due to the funding source. This appeared to frustrate Julie Hamos, who called this "compromise" bill to vote due to the lack of support for SB572.

Many democrats don't seem to comprehend the importance of a capital bill. The governor did not mention anything about a capital bill when he called the special session. As Tom Cross pointed out during his speech, the capital needs of the CTA are just as important as the operational needs. Make no mistake: Downstaters will never allow a transit funding bill to pass until there is a capital bill.

The best course of action is for Madigan and Cross to agree on a capital budget and call it to vote along with SB572.

[sw4400]

During the debates last night, many lawmakers expressed that they preferred SB572 over the bill being debated due to the funding source. This appeared to frustrate Julie Hamos, who called this "compromise" bill to vote due to the lack of support for SB572.

Many democrats don't seem to comprehend the importance of a capital bill. The governor did not mention anything about a capital bill when he called the special session. As Tom Cross pointed out during his speech, the capital needs of the CTA are just as important as the operational needs. Make no mistake: Downstaters will never allow a transit funding bill to pass until there is a capital bill.

The best course of action is for Madigan and Cross to agree on a capital budget and call it to vote along with SB572.

But do you think things will get ironed out before January 20th(Doomsday Start)? The way these politicians are working right now, I don't think, IMO, that'll get anything passed by then. Why can't they just pass the Transit Funding Bill now, then work on SB572 after the whole CTA, Pace, and Metra issue is solved?

[Busjack]

Why can't they just pass the Transit Funding Bill now, then work on SB572 after the whole CTA, Pace, and Metra issue is solved?

I agree with you if you are saying that Madigan and Hamos saying that the legislature was ready for a "comprehensive solution to the transit problem" was wrong. While I previously had advocated that more funding (i.e. tax increases) should be conditioned on real reform, it now appears that SB572 does not include effective reforms. I now would say that there should be separate bills on:

• solving the pension mess (there doesn't seem to be much dispute over the approach to that problem),
  
• finding at least a short-term funding source, and
  
• real reforms to the governance structure.
  

However, others have said that those wanting the capital bill would hold all of that hostage. I have no personal knowledge about the reliability of those reports. (Also, in response to a prior post, apparently Mark Brown was right.) Madigan isn't facing reality if he thinks he can prevent making transit hostage to the casino bill, which is apparently the funding source for the capital bonds.

[Busjack]

The best course of action is for Madigan and Cross to agree on a capital budget and call it to vote along with SB572.

That is what the previously referenced letter from the legislative leaders indicated, but that hasn't happened yet.

[Kevin]

But do you think things will get ironed out before January 20th(Doomsday Start)

Based on what's happened so far this year, I'm not very confident.

One plus is that any bills passed after January 1st no longer need a 3/5th majority. That would make it easier for the General Assembly to pass a transit funding bill, sans capital. However, the governor would need to be on board with such bill (not the case with SB572). To override his veto, 3/5th is still needed.

UPDATE: And it looks like Madigan is indeed going to wait until January to push any further legislation. (via Capital Fax Blog)

[Buslover88]

Based on what's happened so far this year, I'm not very confident.

One plus is that any bills passed after January 1st no longer need a 3/5th majority. That would make it easier for the General Assembly to pass a transit funding bill, sans capital. However, the governor would need to be on board with such bill (not the case with SB572). To override his veto, 3/5th is still needed.

I agree 100% with you, Kevin.

[BusExpert32]

I wonder if I (and the governor for that matter) will come to the rescue again to prevent another Doomsday...

And yes yes, polictics are polictics, and legal procedures are legal procedures, but they have so much extra time to discuss, vote on, and pass a transit funding bill, that for me it seems that a Doomsday on January 20 would be very unlikely. You can all disagree or debate this with me, but come January 20, we'll see who's going to have the last laugh. And about laughing, I've done a lot of it (mainly about all the hype into this and then the governor coming out two days before each Doomsday and saving our commuting lives with his secret stash of money) after the first two Doomsday scares.

[Busjack]

UPDATE: And it looks like Madigan is indeed going to wait until January to push any further legislation. (via Capital Fax Blog)

But if that's the situation, they are going to have to find some other way to salvage the contract/pension deal. Looks like the taxpayers will get it in the rear, in any case. Also, I hope the House likes sitting in Springfield. This time I am behind the call for special sessions, since they should have got this done May 31, 2007, and, as previously noted, apparently had no intention to make good on the promise to settle the capital bill, and open the way to reaching the transit bill, two weeks ago.

I'm sure BusExpert has the inside information. Was he sitting next to Blago and John McDonough at the Blackhawks game? Without that kind of source, your gloating is purely fortuitous (a word that was debated on Milt Rosenberg's radio program last night).

Also, if you look at Capitol Fax Thursday, Nov 29, 2007, 11:29 am, they are now hedging. They don't know either.

[Buslover88]

I wonder if I (and the governor for that matter) will come to the rescue again to prevent another Doomsday...

I don't think so. Do you work in the legislator? I don't think the Governor will, since he can't even persuade the lawmakers to agree on anything anymore.

And yes yes, polictics are polictics, and legal procedures are legal procedures, but they have so much extra time to discuss, vote on, and pass a transit funding bill

Politics aren't politics, politics are corrupt (at least in this state). According to the recent news, the Governor, Micheal and the other lawmakers aren't agreeing on anything.

a Doomsday on January 20 would be very unlikely.

Actually, a Doomsday on January 20 wouldn't be "very unlikey". With the way things are going now, it just might happen.

come January 20, we'll see who's going to have the last laugh. And about laughing, I've done a lot of it (mainly about all the hype into this and then the governor coming out two days before each Doomsday and saving our commuting lives with his secret stash of money) after the first two Doomsday scares.

The governor has a secret stash of money? Where is it? Tell him to give the rest to CTA, METRA and Pace.