Old Bus Assignments (1990-1994)

[FatMan123]

I'm trying to figure out what bus types were assigned to what routes between 1990 and 1994. Of course the assignments of the bus types would depend on the garage's buses, and the garage would send different buses on different routes each day. This said, certain types of buses are (and were) still generally assigned to certain routes; this is what I'm looking for. I only know a few routes' bus assignments (mostly North Side routes), and I'm not sure if they're correct. Any help would be nice. The routes I have are:

3 (King Drive)

Flyer

4 (Cottage Grove)

GMC New Look

6 (Jeffery Express)

MAN articulated

MAN Americana

8 (Halsted)

GMC New Look

12 (Roosevelt)

MAN Americana

16 (Lake)

Flxible New Look narrow

29 (State)

Flyer

56 (Milwaukee)

Flyer

Flxible Metro (?)

65 (Grand)

Flyer

66 (Chicago)

Flyer

81 (Lawrence)

Flyer

84 (Peterson)

Flyer

91 (Austin)

Flyer

128 (Soldier Field)

Flyer

135 (Wilson/LaSalle Express)

GMC New Look

MAN Americana

TMC RTS (?)

136 (Sheridan/LaSalle Express)

GMC New Look

MAN articulated

MAN Americana

145 (Wilson/Michigan Express)

GMC New Look

MAN Americana

TMC RTS (?)

146 (Marine/Michigan Express)

GMC New Look

MAN Americana

TMC RTS (?)

147 (Outer Drive Express)

GMC New Look (?)

MAN articulated

MAN Americana

149 (Stateliner)

GMC New Look

151 (Sheridan)

GMC New Look (?)

TMC RTS

Flxible Metro (?)

152 (Addison)

Flyer

155 (Devon)

GMC New Look

156 (LaSalle)

Flyer

unknown # (Elston/Bryn Mawr)

Flyer

[trainman8119]

I'm trying to figure out what bus types were assigned to what routes between 1990 and 1994. Of course the assignments of the bus types would depend on the garage's buses, and the garage would send different buses on different routes each day.

Since any bus from a garage could be assigned to a route, check out the Chicago Bus and Railfan Page (via the links in the bar above) and go to the bus assignments section. There is a history section on what buses were assigned to what garages during a specific time. From that you should be able to determine which bus might have been on a route at a given time.

[Busjack]

Since your timeline is 90-94, one would have to take into account that accessible buses entered the fleet starting in 1991, and, at the time those deliveries were complete, about 970 of maybe 1900 buses were accessible. Buses on routes officially designated as accessible would have had either Flxible Metros or RTSs. Thus, something like 151 Sheridan would probably not have been mixed after 1992 or so, and would have been RTSs once it was designated as an accessible route. Probably the same for King Drive. Conversely, even if a garage like North Park had some accessible buses, routes that were not designated as accessible (such as 145 and 146) very rarely got RTSs, and, at least when the runs were out of North Park, usually would get an MAN Americana, and this lasted until about 2003, when the system finally become all accessible. (I also note that Chicago Transit and Railfan has the Limits barn closing in 1994, so 145 would have had the nonacessible buses that Limits had prior to the closing, and those from North Park thereafter).

Conversely, a route out of a garage that had no accessible buses (such as Halsted from 69th) would have had a mixture of New Looks and either MANs (K, NP, 69, 103) or Flyers (predominantly F, also a few at 77, C, and A). There were only about 190 or so Flyers compared to 460 or so MANs (and the 190 eventually dwindled to about 113 before the final replacement by the 6400s began). Again, in the case of Halsted, which was served by both Limits and 69th, you would have to factor in when both of those barns closed.

Chicago Transit and Railfan also has a Garage Assignment Page, which is as authoritative as anything one could say here about what garage had what series of buses (I missed trainman mentioning this, but at least here is the link).

Your reference to Elston/Bryn Mawr (which would have been a garage run to the Forest Glen yard) indicates that you are picking pictures off the web.

[FatMan123]

I'm actually looking at pictures I took between late 1990 and June 1994, not the web. I don't seem to remember Halsted having Americanas - did it?

[jajuan]

I'm trying to figure out what bus types were assigned to what routes between 1990 and 1994. Of course the assignments of the bus types would depend on the garage's buses, and the garage would send different buses on different routes each day. This said, certain types of buses are (and were) still generally assigned to certain routes; this is what I'm looking for. I only know a few routes' bus assignments (mostly North Side routes), and I'm not sure if they're correct. Any help would be nice. The routes I have are:

3 (King Drive)

Flyer

4 (Cottage Grove)

GMC New Look

6 (Jeffery Express)

MAN articulated

MAN Americana

8 (Halsted)

GMC New Look

12 (Roosevelt)

MAN Americana

16 (Lake)

Flxible New Look narrow

29 (State)

Flyer

56 (Milwaukee)

Flyer

Flxible Metro (?)

65 (Grand)

Flyer

66 (Chicago)

Flyer

81 (Lawrence)

Flyer

84 (Peterson)

Flyer

91 (Austin)

Flyer

128 (Soldier Field)

Flyer

135 (Wilson/LaSalle Express)

GMC New Look

MAN Americana

TMC RTS (?)

136 (Sheridan/LaSalle Express)

GMC New Look

MAN articulated

MAN Americana

145 (Wilson/Michigan Express)

GMC New Look

MAN Americana

TMC RTS (?)

146 (Marine/Michigan Express)

GMC New Look

MAN Americana

TMC RTS (?)

147 (Outer Drive Express)

GMC New Look (?)

MAN articulated

MAN Americana

149 (Stateliner)

GMC New Look

151 (Sheridan)

GMC New Look (?)

TMC RTS

Flxible Metro (?)

152 (Addison)

Flyer

155 (Devon)

GMC New Look

156 (LaSalle)

Flyer

unknown # (Elston/Bryn Mawr)

Flyer

Here are some others that I remember

1 Indiana/Hyde Park

GMC New Look

Flyer

Completely TMC (1991 onward)

2 Hyde Park Express

GMC New Look

Flyer

3 King Drive

changed to all TMC (1991 onward)

7 Harrison

GMC New Look till 1991 (see note for Kedzie Garage)

Americanas till 1991

All TMC beginning 1991

8 Halsted

GMC New Look

Flyer

Americana

9 Ashland

same as 8

11 Lincoln

GMC

Americana

All TMC beginning in 1991

12 Roosevelt

Americana

GMC until 1991 (see note in Kedzie Garage section)

TMCs

(Temporarily assigned to Lawndale for a few months in 1994. GMCs dominated at this time)

16 Lake

Flxible New looks until 1991 upon that model's retirement

TMC narrow 1991 until route elimination

65 Grand corrected

GMCs until 1991 (see note for Kedzie Garage)

Americanas

TMCs

66 Chicago corrected

All Red, white and Blue Americanas until transition to accessibility

After accessibility all TMCs

I know all assignments but the list would get too long. Basically the breakdown by garage would be as below. Accessible routes began to apply in 1991 and marked with *.

Archer Garage-10*, 15*, 31, 32*, 35*, 39*, 43, 47*, 51*, 53A, 54B*, 61, 62*, 62exp, 99, 99M, 127, 129, 162, 164

Accessible routes-1991 Flxibles

Nonaccesibles MAN Arctics, GMCs, Flxibles

Note: 32 began service in Oct. 93 with opening of Orange Line. 61, 62exp, 99M and 162 eliminated this same time while 99 and 164 reduced to rush hour peak direction only. Briefy service west of Orange Line on 35th and Pershing by 35W* until western portions returned to 35 and 39 in 1994. 10 and 15 were brief lunch time shuttles in 1992 and 1993. 10 eliminated after six months and returned few years later as 10 Museum of Science and Industry*.

77th Garage-1*, 2, 3*, 4, 6, 8A*, 14, 29*, 49A*, 71, 79*, 87, 95W*, 120, 121, 122, 123, 127

Accessibles-TMCs

Nonaccessibles-Flyers, GMCs, TMCs

69th Garage-8, 9, 42, 44, 45, 52A, 55, 59, 63, 67, 110

No accessible routes so all routes-GMCs and MAN americanas

Note Green Line reconstruction 1994-1996. 38 Michigan Express created and operated with MAN Americanas

Also 45 Ashland/Archer eliminated in Oct 93 with Orange Line opening. 42 Halsted/Archer preserved at least till 1994.

110 Marquette eliminated in 1991

103rd Garage-5*, 6, 14, 27*, 28*, 30, 34*, 95E*, 100, 103, 106*, 108, 111, 112, 120, 121, 122, 123, 127

Accessibles-1991 Flxibles

Nonaccessibles-MAN Arctics (mostly on 6 and 14), MAN Americanas, Flxibles

Kedzie Garage-7*, 10*(see note in Archer), 12, 16, 17, 20*, 25, 52*, 57, 65, 66*, 70, 72*, 74*, 82(school trips), 94, 126(accessible weekends only), 131*

Accessables-TMCs

Nonaccessibles-GMCs till 1991, MAN Americanas, TMCs

Note: 131 Washington eliminated in 1991

1994-1996 Green Line reconstruction project 23 Washington Express created and assigned to Kedzie. Operated with MAN Americanas and 94 reassigned permanently to Archer at this time

All GMCs were transferred from Kedzie once the TMCs arrived

North Park Garage-11*, 22*, 36, 49, 49B*, 82, 89, 93, 96, 97*, 120, 121, 122, 123, 125, 135, 136, 145(after Limits closing), 146, 147, 151*, 152(school trips), 154, 155*, 201*, 202, 203*, 204

Accessibles-TMCs

Nonaccessibles-GMCs, MAN Artics (mostly on express routes), MAN Americanas, TMCs

89 North Kedzie eliminated in 1991

Forest Glen-41, 54A, 56*, 56A*, 64*, 69, 76*, 77*, 80, 81*, 81W, 84*, 85*, 85A*, 90*, 90N*, 91, 92*, 152, 154

Accessibles-Flxibles

Nonaccessibles-GMCs, Flyers, Flxibles

Lawndale-18*, 21*, 25, 37, 50, 53, 54*, 60*, 82

Accessibles-Flxibles

Nonaccessibles-GMCs, Flxibles

Limits-8, 9, 36, 37, 50, 123, 145, 156

No accessibles. All routes Flyers.

Some garages shared routes as some do today. couple of examples

8 and 9 shared by Limits and 69th. So you'd probably see Flyers, GMCs and Americanas on these.

82 Kimball/Homan was Lawndale, North Park and Kedzie(School trips only) so you'd see GMCs, TMCs, Flxibles, and Americanas

When 66 Chicago was still Kedzie assigned, it was unusually in that only operated with red, white and blue Americanas operated on it when that color scheme was still new for 1980s buses. This was up until summer 1992 by which time the route became completely accessible.

120, 121, 122, 123 mainly North Pk except few trips from other garages noted

Also some of you may not recognized some of these routes because of eliminations related to the opening of the Orange in Oct. 1993. I've made notes above about them. I can give you route names for these if there are any questions.

I also didn't mention route reassignments relating to opening of Chicago and 74th garages or closings of Lawndale, Limits, and 69th because they occurred mainly shortly after the 1990-1994 time frame in question. Plus N designations for owl service wasn't really in affect at the time.

Also deliberatedly not mentioned are changes relating to Evanston/Skokie Corridor improvements, Lake Shore Drive Corridor Study improvements or Westside Corridor Study improvements because they also are outside the timeframe in question.

[Busjack]

As jajuan indicates, this gets complicated by not only Limits closing, but also Chicago not opening until 1994. Thus, most routes indicated as being from Kedzie before 1994 were from Chicago after that, and the equipment changed, as, according to Chicago Transit and Railfan, Chicago Garage got Lawndale's equipment. (Lawndale officially closed in 1973, but was a temporary garage when Kedzie and Chicago were built.)

Also, while you said that Halsted had Americanas, those were from 69th, while jajuan correctly points out that any Flyers would have been from Limits.

[jajuan]

As jajuan indicates, this gets complicated by not only Limits closing, but also Chicago not opening until 1994. Thus, most routes indicated as being from Kedzie before 1994 were from Chicago after that, and the equipment changed, as, according to Chicago Transit and Railfan, Chicago Garage got Lawndale's equipment. (Lawndale officially closed in 1973, but was a temporary garage when Kedzie and Chicago were built.)

Also, while you said that Halsted had Americanas, those were from 69th, while jajuan correctly points out that any Flyers would have been from Limits.

Thanks for that reminder of Chicago opening in 1994. I tended to remember it opening in 1995 because of all the route reassignments going on in both 1994 and 1995 with Limits, Lawndale and 69th closing and Chicago and 74th opening.

I guess may as well point out that all of Kedzie's east-west routes north of Jackson went to Chicago. As Busjack points out all of the buses from Lawndale went to Chicago. Limits' Flyers were assigned to Kedzie, Archer and Forest Glen with an almost equal threeway split. What GMCs were left at the time were mainly assigned to North Pk at this time. Also 76 Diversey went from Forest Glen to Chicago. Americanas 4097-4150 went from 69th to 74th. The rest marked 4151-4220 went to North Pk. 4097-4108 would later go to Kedzie as 74th started receiving its 6000s. TMCs 4474-4502 went from North Park to Kedzie. Routes 49 and 52A switched from 69th to Archer. The rest of those old 69th routes went to 74th. TMCs 4575-4630? and TMC narrow went from Kedzie to Chicago. The rest of TMCs at Kedzie above 4630 got reassigned to Archer as the 6000s started arriving. North Park's 4503-4574 got reassigned to 74th to make room for the 5800s. Routes 8 and 9 got assigned to 69th alone and later 74th after it replaced 69th. 21, 25, 37, 50, 60 and 156 got reassigned to Kedzie after Limits and Lawndale closed. 82 got permanently reassigned to Kedzie alone. 125 was shared between North Pk and Kedzie before Kedzie was assigned all the trips shortly thereafter. 145 got switched to North Pk from Limits. Plus Kedzie also picked up some of the trips for 120, 121, 122, and 123. I just realized that I forgot to mention 157 in my previous post. It was a limits route before going to Kedzie after the Limits closing.

These were the changes that I remember. As you can see and Busjack pointed this out, this was a very complicated process with so much changing in a very short time. I left them out of my previous post because that post was complicated enough and this would have made it down right confusing. Plus I figure I could leave them out because these changes started to occur at the end of the 1990-94 timeframe that was originally asked about.

[FatMan123]

None of my pictures indicate 145 and 135 buses being Flyers, even before the 145 and 135 switched to North Park.

[Busjack]

None of my pictures indicate 145 and 135 buses being Flyers, even before the 145 and 135 switched to North Park.

Why don't you post them then?

[FatMan123]

I'm terrible with computers. I can't figure out how to post pictures. Can someone please explain it to me?

[RIPTA42]

I'm terrible with computers. I can't figure out how to post pictures. Can someone please explain it to me?

1) Scan them, if they aren't already.

2) Below the box where you compose a message, there's a box that says "Attachments." Click on "Browse...," find the file, Click "OK," then "UPLOAD." Repeat for all other photos.

3) Click "Add Reply."

[geneking7320]

This thread brings a up a question:

Didn't 77th Garage have some Flxible 5300s when CTA first got them?

[cta5658]

This thread brings a up a question:

Didn't 77th Garage have some Flxible 5300s when CTA first got them?

no 103rd was the first to get them, then lawndale (replaced by chicago ave.), Forest glen and archer got the last ones an in 1994 some 5300s were temporarily transferred for some 4400 series (when they were non conditioned) to distribute equal distribution of air conditioned buses through system

[trainman8119]

no 103rd was the first to get them, then lawndale (replaced by chicago ave.), Forest glen and archer got the last ones an in 1994 some 5300s were temporarily transferred for some 4400 series (when they were non conditioned) to distribute equal distribution of air conditioned buses through system

Not totally correct. 103 got the 5300's first. Forest Glen got 5400's and as they received 5500 and 5600's, the 5400's found their way to Chicago Ave. Archer then got the mid to higher 5600s and then all the 5700's.The first Flxibles 77th got were the 6000's. I think rmad can back me up on this.

[FatMan123]

Was the 86 wheelchair accessible?

[rmadisonwi]

I think rmad can back me up on this.

Unfortunately (I guess?), the arrival of the 6000s was before my time down here in Chicago, so I don't know the history of the fleet assignments. Browsing the internal network, I did find an interesting document detailing the realignment of the fleet when CTA went from nine garages to eight back in the early 1990s. If I can find that again, I'll see what it says and see if it can shed any light on this topic. There might also be rosters from 1995 or 1996 available as well.

[trainman8119]

Unfortunately (I guess?), the arrival of the 6000s was before my time down here in Chicago, so I don't know the history of the fleet assignments. Browsing the internal network, I did find an interesting document detailing the realignment of the fleet when CTA went from nine garages to eight back in the early 1990s. If I can find that again, I'll see what it says and see if it can shed any light on this topic. There might also be rosters from 1995 or 1996 available as well.

I guess it was unfair to make that statement. However, I do distinctly remember that the 5400s came in through Forest Glen and made there way south as newer buses came in. After all was said and done, 5300's were at 103, 5400s at Chicago, 5500's and 5600-5620 (or so) at FG and 5620 (or so) 5764 were at Archer. The higher series 5300's went to 77th when the 6000's were moved around to Kedzie (and later Forest Glen in the big Flxible swap).

[Busjack]

This becomes more confusing the longer the time horizon.

Trainman seems to miss jajuan's point that Lawdale was open during most of this time, and then transferred its buses to Chicago when Chicago opened.

As far as what happened in 1995:

• 110 6000s per garage went to 77, K, and 74th respectively.
  
• NP got 65 5800s, which freed up about the same number of 4400s to go to 74th.
  
• K pretty much lost its 4400s, and its, and some of 77th's 4400s, both freed up when those garages got 6000s, were split among A,C,and 103.
  
• Some MANs may have been moved, especially when routes 8, 9, 55 and 63 were made accessible. That was the end of the New Looks, which persisted at 69th until it closed.
  

About things I have heard about, but personally don't know:

• There was apparently the situation where FG "loaned" air conditioned buses to 77th during the period before 1995, possibly in exchange for some 4400s. I don't know how the "FG lending to 77" situation played out, but in 1995, FG had about 130 5500s, which were eventually swapped for Kedzie's fleet in 2001. Maybe FG kept the 4700s and got back its 5500s.
  
• If some buses were transferred between garages during this time. For instance, there were reports that because of political considerations, King Drive (hence 77th Garage) got the 4400s first, but then they went to North Park when 77th got RTSs in the 4700 up range. Trainman is implying something similar for the 5400s.
  

The only thing I can say for sure is that 1995 was the last time of relative equality among garages, as each had about 160 accessible buses (maybe more at FG and less at K).

[trainman8119]

[*]If some buses were transferred between garages during this time. For instance, there were reports that because of political considerations, King Drive (hence 77th Garage) got the 4400s first, but then they went to North Park when 77th got RTSs in the 4700 up range. Trainman is implying something similar for the 5400s.

I don't know about the political considerations (although I don't doubt it), but the TMC's came in through 77th street. As they were being received the 4400 and 4500's went to 77th, then as more came in, the went to North Park. The 4600's went to Chicago (later Kedzie and Archer). 77th kept the 4700 and 4800's. For whatever reason, the same thing went on with the 5400s at Forest Glen, in and then out.

The way I look at it, Lawndale was Kedzie (during its reconstruction time) and North ave/Chicago ave (during its reconstruction time). For the sake of time and perhaps less confusion, I simply referred to it as Chicago Ave....sorry !!!!

[Busjack]

The way I look at it, Lawndale was Kedzie (during its reconstruction time) and North ave/Chicago ave (during its reconstruction time). For the sake of time and perhaps less confusion, I simply referred to it as Chicago Ave....sorry !!!!

According to other reports, Lawndale had what we consider to be Kedzie routes both times, and the rebuilt Kedzie Garage had some of the former North Ave. routes until Chicago garage opened. Krambles's book says at page 54: "Initial assignments for the TMCs were at North Park, Kedzie, and 77th garages."

[cta5658]

I guess it was unfair to make that statement. However, I do distinctly remember that the 5400s came in through Forest Glen and made there way south as newer buses came in. After all was said and done, 5300's were at 103, 5400s at Chicago, 5500's and 5600-5620 (or so) at FG and 5620 (or so) 5764 were at Archer. The higher series 5300's went to 77th when the 6000's were moved around to Kedzie (and later Forest Glen in the big Flxible swap).

i said it before in another thread, 103rd got the remaining 6000's in 2003 (6074-6097) and 15 from kedzie this past year (6000-6002, 6004-6014, 6070)

[jajuan]

I don't know about the political considerations (although I don't doubt it), but the TMC's came in through 77th street. As they were being received the 4400 and 4500's went to 77th, then as more came in, the went to North Park. The 4600's went to Chicago (later Kedzie and Archer). 77th kept the 4700 and 4800's. For whatever reason, the same thing went on with the 5400s at Forest Glen, in and then out.

The way I look at it, Lawndale was Kedzie (during its reconstruction time) and North ave/Chicago ave (during its reconstruction time). For the sake of time and perhaps less confusion, I simply referred to it as Chicago Ave....sorry !!!!

We're making this thread a bit too complicated. The timeframe originally in question is 1990-94. By this time, North Ave garage did not exist anymore. Also Kedzie AND Lawndale were both around for most of this timeframe. Chicago didn't come into play until 1994 the final year of the timeframe asked about.

[jajuan]

Was the 86 wheelchair accessible?

Yes it was. It was a mainly Forest Glen route for the timeframe in question so Flxible 5300s were mainly operated on this route. When Chicago opened in 1994, the last year of this timeframe, school trips were assigned to this garage. So you were likely to see some TMCs operating during afternoon rush hours on this route as well.

[FatMan123]

Did the West Side express routes (61, 99, 99M, 162, 164) run with articulateds?

[MetroShadow]

Did the West Side express routes (61, 99, 99M, 162, 164) run with articulateds?

My guess would be a mixed set, although the buses I've seen were MAN Artics. Although an exception that I encountered was in 1993 when I saw an Archer flxible with a 164 sign on it.