Route Changes To Save CTA money or Improve Service

[trainman8119]

Why does Metra even run the in city service anyway? Hyde Park is really the only inner city area of ME that gets substantial ridership. The Kensington local is so bad now that they run 2 car trains on it and shortened the platforms. Unless the S Chicago branch ran express downtown from Stony Island, there is no incentive to entice passengers away from the CTA.

From the ME standpoint, here it is. People don't want to ride CTA to/from Hyde Park and South Chicago. Also, many people from Indiana will drive to 93rd street, just so they don't have to use the South Shore Line. They can get there a heck of a lot faster on the train (over the bus), for about the same money. I hear it all the time when we have a service disruption (usually the day after), how someone had to take a bus or L train and sound like they were dispatched to hell and back. The Kensington Locals are pretty quiet during the midday, but have a fair amount of ridership during the rush hours. There have been 2 car trains on that stretch because there is a car shortage and that is the area where shorter trains can run and handle the passenger load. Usually trains will not run shorter than 4 cars, that because of their age, it is feared that 2 car trains will break down and be stuck in no mans land. You may from time to time see 2 car trains to/from Blue Island and South Chicago, but that usually means there is a shortage somewhere, and it is better to have short and crowded than nothing at all.

It has been rumored for awhile, that if anything ever would go, it would be the Blue Island branch, seeing as how you have service from there on the Rock Island. But even there, many people transfer over from the Rock (in Blue Island) in rush hours, so they don't have to walk from La Salle Street to North Michigan Ave. Also, if you were to take Metra trains out of South Chicago, you would have every politican in that area crying racism. It was a big factor in getting all of the Hyde Park and South Chicago platforms rebuilt (even through contractor defaults and other delays), as well as getting the main connecting point moved from 59th Street to 55/56/57th Streets.

[artthouwill]

From the ME standpoint, here it is. People don't want to ride CTA to/from Hyde Park and South Chicago. Also, many people from Indiana will drive to 93rd street, just so they don't have to use the South Shore Line. They can get there a heck of a lot faster on the train (over the bus), for about the same money. I hear it all the time when we have a service disruption (usually the day after), how someone had to take a bus or L train and sound like they were dispatched to hell and back. The Kensington Locals are pretty quiet during the midday, but have a fair amount of ridership during the rush hours. There have been 2 car trains on that stretch because there is a car shortage and that is the area where shorter trains can run and handle the passenger load. Usually trains will not run shorter than 4 cars, that because of their age, it is feared that 2 car trains will break down and be stuck in no mans land. You may from time to time see 2 car trains to/from Blue Island and South Chicago, but that usually means there is a shortage somewhere, and it is better to have short and crowded than nothing at all.

It has been rumored for awhile, that if anything ever would go, it would be the Blue Island branch, seeing as how you have service from there on the Rock Island. But even there, many people transfer over from the Rock (in Blue Island) in rush hours, so they don't have to walk from La Salle Street to North Michigan Ave. Also, if you were to take Metra trains out of South Chicago, you would have every politican in that area crying racism. It was a big factor in getting all of the Hyde Park and South Chicago platforms rebuilt (even through contractor defaults and other delays), as well as getting the main connecting point moved from 59th Street to 55/56/57th Streets.

Because commuter bus service in NW Indiana is now defunct, I can see a few people driving from Whiting over to 93rd, but they can drive downtown much faster themselves. Besides, where's the parking over threre?

The midday Kensington locals are actually Blue Island trains, and the BI's run express during rush hours which is what makes it attractive to RI customers transfering to it.

I think you could justify racism in the station rehab area when nonwhite area stations were being left to rot while white areas got rehabbed stations. However I don't think it would've been racism if Metra had decided to ax the ME S. Chicago, and Kensington local trains due to low ridership and budget constraints.

Honestly, at some point every station between 111th and 67th will need a rebuild and if rebuilt would need to be ADA compliant. Based on how the stations are built now (which would not be appealing to anyone for safety reasons), this would be a very expensive undertaking.

[Busjack]

I followed art's and trainman's posts, and probably agree with about 90% of each.

I also liked the Gray Line proposal at the time (but think it is going nowhere now) and thought that art's South Chicago Ave. L proposal had promise.

However, given that neither is official, the question comes down to, in my mind, what is the best way of serving the southeast side? The current system dependent on express buses and a Metra Electric with somewhat marginal ridership (and serving an area that is not suburban), the L proposal, or the Gray Line, with undoubtedly a cutback in express bus service? Any opinions?

[geneking7320]

I followed art's and trainman's posts, and probably agree with about 90% of each.

I also liked the Gray Line proposal at the time (but think it is going nowhere now) and thought that art's South Chicago Ave. L proposal had promise.

However, given that neither is official, the question comes down to, in my mind, what is the best way of serving the southeast side? The current system dependent on express buses and a Metra Electric with somewhat marginal ridership (and serving an area that is not suburban), the L proposal, or the Gray Line, with undoubtedly a cutback in express bus service? Any opinions?

Here's my $0.02:

1) I've liked the Gray Line proposal since I first heard of it in the Chicago Transit Yahoo! group.

2) I think it could work but the political problems in this region make that very difficult.

3) I would like to see the Gray Line implemented using either light rail or single level rail vehicles

and have an enclosed "free" connection to CTA rail services in the Loop [via the Pedway perhaps?]

[BusExpert32]

How about these ideas:

53B: A new fixed route between Peterson/Pulaski and the Old Orchard Mall routed along Pulaski-Crawford-Golf.

80: Extend it west along Irving Park and then to the O'Hare Kiss and Fly terminal.

90: Extend it even further south down Harlem to either Forest Park Blue Line, 54th/Cermak Pink Line, Archer/Harlem, or Archer/63rd Street.

I realize that this means more interlining between CTA and Pace routes, but if Pace won't accept CTA passes, and many people in bordering suburbs need better connections and smaller fares, then I guess it results in war between the two transit agencies.

[Busjack]

Accepting your admission of war,

How about these ideas:

53B: A new fixed route between Peterson/Pulaski and the Old Orchard Mall routed along Pulaski-Crawford-Golf.

Admittedly there isn't any service between Peterson and Howard, but is there demand for it? North of Howard, it is unneeded competition with 215.

80: Extend it west along Irving Park and then to the O'Hare Kiss and Fly terminal.

During the late 60s, and most of the 70s, especially when 80 was a trolley bus and 80A basically ran west of the WNW L (now Blue Line station) to serve the area west of Neenah where the trolley bus did not run, the 80A ran all the way to Mannheim Road, and then via Lawrence and East River back to Irving Park. I even rode that once to see a Priest staying in a motel near O'Hare. [DON'T ASK ABOUT IT.] However, it didn't link up with O'Hare; you needed to take the 40 bus from Jeff Park.

Now, obviously, at some point CTA abandoned it to Pace, and from Pace's viewpoint, it is only worth having Academy run it.

Also, the idea behind the X80 (according to signs on the L) is that you take it from Lakeview to the Blue Line to O'Hare (or as the signs say, conexión la linea rojo y la linea cafe a la linea azul a la aeropuerto).

Since CTA was so eager to abandon the line, I don't see it taking it back. People in Schiller Park can ride the 325 and 326 to Rosemont, or the 330 to the Kiss and Ride. People in the general Norridge area can take 69, 90, and 331 to the Blue Line.

90: Extend it even further south down Harlem to either Forest Park Blue Line, 54th/Cermak Pink Line, Archer/Harlem, or Archer/63rd Street.

..., but if Pace won't accept CTA passes

This one is pure unneeded competition--even CTA is starting to realize that.

Also, the only passes Pace doesn't accept are the 7 day pass for $23, the Fun Pass, and U Pass. People in the border areas can still use Transit Cards, Chicago Cards, Chicago Card Plus, 30 day passes, and the $28 joint 7 day pass.

Since the transit agencies seem to have spent through last year's tax increase, now isn't the time to ask the taxpayers to subsidize this kind of duplication.

NOW: If you folks want to really tackle something, how about a more direct route from the 155-Devon area to O'Hare, that doesn't involve taking a bus south to Foster or taking the Blue Line to Belmont, and then the 82 bus to Devon and Kedzie. The problem bothered me when I lived there, although, as indicated way up on this thread, I don't think that the 155A Superdawg Feeder is the answer (insufficient demand to maintain a bus on Devon between Kedzie and Mannheim).

[BusExpert32]

NOW: If you folks want to really tackle something, how about a more direct route from the 155-Devon area to O'Hare, that doesn't involve taking a bus south to Foster or taking the Blue Line to Belmont, and then the 82 bus to Devon and Kedzie. The problem bothered me when I lived there, although, as indicated way up on this thread, I don't think that the 155A Superdawg Feeder is the answer (insufficient demand to maintain a bus on Devon between Kedzie and Mannheim).

Good point. A #155 Devon between O'Hare Kiss and Fly and the Morse Red Line could be something to seriously look at, since I believe that the CTA should run at least a couple of routes to O'Hare for better and faster connections.

[Zol87]

Good point. A #155 Devon between O'Hare Kiss and Fly and the Morse Red Line could be something to seriously look at, since I believe that the CTA should run at least a couple of routes to O'Hare for better and faster connections.

This is an interesting proposal, However, is there much of a need for service along Devon west of Milwaukee Ave? The 56A only goes a far as Avondale on Devon during rush hours, The 88 covers Avondale to Canfield, the 240 covers Devon from Dee to Cumberland. Although a one seat ride would be good.

[Zol87]

NOW: If you folks want to really tackle something, how about a more direct route from the 155-Devon area to O'Hare, that doesn't involve taking a bus south to Foster or taking the Blue Line to Belmont, and then the 82 bus to Devon and Kedzie. The problem bothered me when I lived there, although, as indicated way up on this thread, I don't think that the 155A Superdawg Feeder is the answer (insufficient demand to maintain a bus on Devon between Kedzie and Mannheim).

Do you mean Milwaukee instead of Manneheim?

[Busjack]

Do you mean Milwaukee instead of Manneheim?

No, I meant Mannheim to get to O'Hare.

But, if you also note, I said it wasn't feasible (and previously said the failures west of Kedzie proved that). I was looking for a better idea.