bus trading

[Archer Driver]

Any one knows why Archer and Chicago are trading Novas again.

[BusExpert32]

ANY ONE KNOWS WHY ARCHER AND CHICAGO ARE TRADING NOVAS AGAIN.

As previously explained, the swap of Novas and New Flyers between Archer and Chicago are being done to consolidate the fleet types at each of the two garages.

[qwantae]

So far, It seems that 103rd garage had traded their 6000s for 74th Garage TMCS (4800s).

This Morning, I've rode 4835 on #15 Jeffery Local Southbound to 79th, and then I've spotted #4841 going northbound on the same route. I guess 74th is trying to get 100% 6000s fleet, any comments?

Plus I've rode #4819 on #79-79th to Western, and #4484 on #97 Skokie- That bus still runs smoothly, good transmission.

[jajuan]

So far, It seems that 103rd garage had traded their 6000s for 74th Garage TMCS (4800s).

This Morning, I've rode 4835 on #15 Jeffery Local Southbound to 79th, and then I've spotted #4841 going northbound on the same route. I guess 74th is trying to get 100% 6000s fleet, any comments?

Plus I've rode #4819 on #79-79th to Western, and #4484 on #97 Skokie- That bus still runs smoothly, good transmission.

I don't think it's all quite yet unless they traded the rest within the past week. Just last Tuesday while leaving the Museum of Science and Industry I saw a couple of 6000s on both the 15 and 28. I also saw a 6000 returning to 103rd garage passing the Museum on Cornell with '103RD GARAGE' on the destination sign.

[Kevin]

I don't think it's all quite yet unless they traded the rest within the past week. Just last Tuesday while leaving the Museum of Science and Industry I saw a couple of 6000s on both the 15 and 28. I also saw a 6000 returning to 103rd garage passing the Museum on Cornell with '103RD GARAGE' on the destination sign.

Refer to the garages page. 6000s are no longer assigned to 103rd.

[Danielsmusic]

Refer to the garages page. 6000s are no longer assigned to 103rd.

Since when?! I saw a 6000 on the X28 two days ago!

[Kevin]

Since when?! I saw a 6000 on the X28 two days ago!

Moves took place over the past weekend.

[trainman8119]

Since when?! I saw a 6000 on the X28 two days ago!

Could have been a 5400. Lots of them on the X28 and more so the 15 in the past few days.

[Busjack]

Moves took place over the past weekend.

While I can understand the theory of consolidating the Novas at 2 garages (don't necessarily agree, but do understand), I believe that the "last month 6000s go from Kedzie to 103" "last weekend 103 doesn't have any" is the type of shuttling of which trainman disapproves--just moving the junk chess pieces over the board, while, if we accept the official versions, all 4400s and 5300s should be gone in a year, or even if we accept BusHunter's possibly more realistic timetable of June 2009. Especially if one factors in if the articulated hybrid option is exercised, which would probably result in the faster retirement of the 4400s and having 60% of the 6000s gone by then too.

Could have been a 5400. Lots of them on the X28 and more so the 15 in the past few days.

Especially since by any timeline, the 5300s should have been gone by now. Admittely 103 is in the process of getting 1000s, but why swap 6000s for 5400s, if in fact, that has happened?

[jajuan]

Moves took place over the past weekend.

I thought so because I saw three 6000s, one each on 15 and 28 as well as the out of service one I mentioned deadheading to the garage.

[qwantae]

This Morning, I've spotted another 74th TMC (4837) working #15 Jeffery Local, while I was waiting on #14 Jeffery Exp. on Jeffery/ 67th. For 103rd 6000s, I've seen mostly former Kedzie's and 103rd Flxibles working #67 67/69/71. For the past week, I've never seen TMCs on 74th routes since couple of them working #9 Ashland couple weekends ago.

[nflyer22]

That is because 103rd has traded off the Flxible 6000s to 74th (and maybe Forest Glen, not sure) and 74th has traded off their TMCs to others. This is my opinion, and has been mentioned in several threads, but I dislike this practice, consolidating only one bus type at one garage, and I can't see how this will reduce maintenance costs.

[Busjack]

... and I can't see how this will reduce maintenance costs.

A theory can be divined from the "Lean Bus Operations" part of the November President's Report. Especially when you get to page 14 on Kits. One may assume that there are kits for a particular model of bus, and you save some inventory time by not having to stock multiple kits at one garage. One might also assume that a particular model has a specific maintenance workflow (see page 11).

Note that I don't have independent information and am not vouching for the accuracy of Huberman's theories in this regard. But since you seemed to ask the question....

This seems a departure from the former service standard that there should be an average fleet age around the system, but that standard was certainly not followed in the past 2 years.

Busfans' desire to ride varied equipment should not be a consideration. However, the rumor that 74th gets the end of the stick again bothers me, in addition to the shuffling of soon to be obsolete equipment.

[trainman8119]

A theory can be divined from the "Lean Bus Operations" part of the November President's Report. Especially when you get to page 14 on Kits. One may assume that there are kits for a particular model of bus, and you save some inventory time by not having to stock multiple kits at one garage. One might also assume that a particular model has a specific maintenance workflow (see page 11).

Note that I don't have independent information and am not vouching for the accuracy of Huberman's theories in this regard. But since you seemed to ask the question....

This seems a departure from the former service standard that there should be an average fleet age around the system, but that standard was certainly not followed in the past 2 years.

Busfans' desire to ride varied equipment should not be a consideration. However, the rumor that 74th gets the end of the stick again bothers me, in addition to the shuffling of soon to be obsolete equipment.

Kinda shows that non transit people are running the show....lets make it pretty, not necessarily practical. Lets face it, you need the parts no matter where the buses are..so I am not so sure that this is really ends up being a cost saving move. If there was one thing Kruesi did right it was trying to keep the average fleet age balanced throughout the system. Now, it is a hodgepoge. Maybe it just seems that way because there is real new stuff and real old stuff and not much in between. Still, I think this is all time and money wasted and really, really, really poorly planned...but then now you know why they needed so much money from the state for operations !!!!!!

[jajuan]

Kinda shows that non transit people are running the show....lets make it pretty, not necessarily practical. Lets face it, you need the parts no matter where the buses are..so I am not so sure that this is really ends up being a cost saving move. If there was one thing Kruesi did right it was trying to keep the average fleet age balanced throughout the system. Now, it is a hodgepoge. Maybe it just seems that way because there is real new stuff and real old stuff and not much in between. Still, I think this is all time and money wasted and really, really, really poorly planned...but then now you know why they needed so much money from the state for operations !!!!!!

Thank you. What a way to prove the downstaters and some suburbanites right that CTA knows how to waste money after such a good start by Huberman in finding savings that Kruesi couldn't seem to find. If there was such a "need" for only one bus type in a garage, which I'm not convinced there is, it should have been planned before the newest equipment started arriving in the city. Why start moving hundreds of buses around back and forth across different parts the city if they're not being done so during revenue operations. It's a big waste given the high cost of fuel and oil these days. Like trainman says the buses will still need to be maintained regardless of the garage their assigned to and thus the kits needed for repair will be the same whether it's one bus type in the garage or two or three for that matter. Maybe it's the engineer in me but I don't see where the cost savings are coming about if the parts will still be the same after all this needless moving around.

[trainman8119]

A theory can be divined from the "Lean Bus Operations" part of the November President's Report. Especially when you get to page 14 on Kits. One may assume that there are kits for a particular model of bus, and you save some inventory time by not having to stock multiple kits at one garage. One might also assume that a particular model has a specific maintenance workflow (see page 11).

I am sure that there is some logic or rhyme or reason to the mumbo jumbo on page 14. However, in the example given (old way) shows something not available, but assumes that this will not be the case in the "kit system". Isn't it possible that a kit may not be available, or that a part of the kit is not available ???? Or that a problem isn't necessarily related to what is in the kit. Even PM's will (or at least should) occasionally encounter things out of the ordinary. I think there is too much assumption on Mr. Huberman's example and it could find him out in the cold (but, of course, he would just blame someone else).

[rmadisonwi]

it should have been planned before the newest equipment started arriving in the city.

Keep in mind that management is almost completely different at all levels of CTA vs. when the New Flyers first started arriving.

The one-time cost of a bus transfer is far lower than the long-term cost of running an efficient garage/maintenance system.

I'm not in maintenance, but my impression is that the new head of bus maintenance seems to know what he's doing. He sure ran a good shop when he was in charge of Kedzie's maintenance, making the best of a bad situation (i.e. the NABIs), to the point where Kedzie is now doing maintenance on other garages' artics. He's been around the system long enough to know what he's doing, so if he figures that fleet consolidation can improve maintenance, I'll defer to his expertise.

Another thing to consider is that every time a bus breaks down on the road, it costs the company far more than the cost of one bus transfer. Breakdowns happen every day. Bus transfers don't. Even if a lot of vehicles are changing hands now, it will settle down soon enough. If the improved maintenance from a simplified fleet results in fewer breakdowns, then the savings will exceed the minor cost involved in moving a few buses around.

[trainman8119]

I'm not in maintenance, but my impression is that the new head of bus maintenance seems to know what he's doing. He sure ran a good shop when he was in charge of Kedzie's maintenance, making the best of a bad situation (i.e. the NABIs), to the point where Kedzie is now doing maintenance on other garages' artics. He's been around the system long enough to know what he's doing, so if he figures that fleet consolidation can improve maintenance, I'll defer to his expertise.

Another thing to consider is that every time a bus breaks down on the road, it costs the company far more than the cost of one bus transfer. Breakdowns happen every day. Bus transfers don't. Even if a lot of vehicles are changing hands now, it will settle down soon enough. If the improved maintenance from a simplified fleet results in fewer breakdowns, then the savings will exceed the minor cost involved in moving a few buses around.

I won't question you know what you are talking about. Breakdowns are going to happen, it is a part of life...the more mechanical things you have, the obvious chance there is that its gonna break. However I would think it more important to improve the overall operation than to take the worst and put it in one area, which, in a way is happening here. I mean, why not put it on North Park to start fixing the stuff instead of moving 20 buses over 6 times a year to Kedzie to get the work done. What is being implied here is that out of 8 garages, only one is capable of doing adequate work...if that is the case, then there is a real serious problem here, and you can keep moving stuff around all you want, it won't solve the overall problem. Also, I would think, that by putting all the garbage in one area, you are risking putting one part of the system in peril. I would think that by having new mixed in with old, you would at least be able to always have something good available.

But then, I guess that is why I am here and all else is there !!!!!

[Busjack]

However I would think it more important to improve the overall operation than to take the worst and put it in one area, which, in a way is happening here.

Agreed. Especially when it appears that one of the strategies is to move equipment that should have been scrapped already to 103rd, according to your prior report, or Archer getting 1000s and a lot of its 5700s going to 103rd a couple of years ago.

I mean, why not put it on North Park to start fixing the stuff instead of moving 20 buses over 6 times a year to Kedzie to get the work done.

BTW, what are the South Shops doing? You would think that is where the heavy maintenance would be done.

Also, has trainman stumbled on the real reason for bus swaps that otherwise don't seem to make any sense (like someone reporting that a 764X was on a NP route one day and a K one the next)?

[Busjack]

To throw another point out there, Huberman may have a point that there might be fewer breakdowns on a particular series of bus if the maintenance parts for it are located at a particular garage and used by a crew that knows that equipment.

However, that seems counterbalanced by his other consistent point that new equipment radically reduces maintenance costs. Thus, unless he is saying that the maintenance people at 74, 103, and to some extent Kedzie are the only ones who can really keep a high floor bus going, trainman's point that the breakdown risk is being transferred to certain neighborhoods seems valid.

One thing that I can assure qwante with about 99% confidence: Since you like high floor buses, hang out near 74th's routes. CTA will keep changing the rules so that no matter what the philosophy, it is not getting any new equipment, or will certainly be the last to do so.

[BusHunter]

Now that the 103rd #6000's are at 74th, I wonder where Forest Glen's #6000's will end up? #6026 was on the #9 yesterday so a few of them has reached 74th, but with the 103rd transfers they pretty much fill the void left by TMC's exit from 74th.

[trainman8119]

Also, has trainman stumbled on the real reason for bus swaps that otherwise don't seem to make any sense (like someone reporting that a 764X was on a NP route one day and a K one the next)?

I can't take credit for stumbling onto this. rmad stated (someplace) that 20 artics were swapped between Kedzie and North Park for some type of work at Kedzie because no one was competent enough at North Park to do the work.

[trainman8119]

One thing that I can assure qwante with about 99% confidence: Since you like high floor buses, hang out near 74th's routes. CTA will keep changing the rules so that no matter what the philosophy, it is not getting any new equipment, or will certainly be the last to do so.

I would think it possible you might still see some stuff at Chicago too. All that has been noted is that Chicago and Archer are swapping Flyers and Novas...nothing has ever been said about the Flxibles there being moved, and they certainly don't appear to be retiring. And unless Kedzie Flyers are headed to Chicago for a swap with Flxibles, there will probably be a few left there for a bit.

And one more thought on the consolidation. The only bus type that should be centralized where it would make sense would be the hybrids, since there really is a uniqueness to these buses. Any other type of bus should be relatively similar, enough to have a qualified mechanic make repairs without too much fanfare. This should be the same to a mechanic as it would be to a driver when it comes to learning the basics of your craft (learning the details of the specific bus).

[Busjack]

I would think it possible you might still see some stuff at Chicago too.

Slightly off topic. However, in 74th case, I meant to the bitter end (2012?).

[Busjack]

Now that the 103rd #6000's are at 74th, I wonder where Forest Glen's #6000's will end up? #6026 was on the #9 yesterday so a few of them has reached 74th, but with the 103rd transfers they pretty much fill the void left by TMC's exit from 74th.

Since you are a BusHunter, follow the leads in this post and make your own inferences. Also do you get your gear at Cabela's or Bass Pro Shops? (I'm just kidding with your screen name here ).