Guest Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Here are some pics from last years big move of CTA GMC #9799 from CHBMs former home to their temp. home. I had the pleasure of driving our CTA bus out to Aurora. Plus heres a pic of a St Louis 30ft Flxible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Here are some pics from last years big move of CTA GMC #9799 from CHBMs former home to their temp. home. I had the pleasure of driving our CTA bus out to Aurora. Plus heres a pic of a St Louis 30ft Flxible. Cool picture. I was looking at the destination sign and had forgotten that there were trips on the 21 Cermak that ended at the Cermak-Chinatown Station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Cool picture. I was looking at the destination sign and had forgotten that there were trips on the 21 Cermak that ended at the Cermak-Chinatown Station.However, obviously not the original sign for that bus, as that style was only used on the 7400s (at least as original equipment). The 9000s started the Helvetica signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Here are some pics from last years big move of CTA GMC #9799 from CHBMs former home to their temp. home. I had the pleasure of driving our CTA bus out to Aurora. Plus heres a pic of a St Louis 30ft Flxible. How do they get the crippled Flyer #1606 moved from location to location? I wish the CTA or CHBM would pitch in for a used Detroit 6V92TA engine to replace the one the CTA needlessly let seize up to nothing, plus replace the brake lines and any other lines required to make this bus operable again. The transmission might be gone too, but perhaps it is still good... if not, maybe a rebuilt Allison HT-740 tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 How do they get the crippled Flyer #1606 moved from location to location? I wish the CTA or CHBM would pitch in for a used Detroit 6V92TA engine to replace the one the CTA needlessly let seize up to nothing, plus replace the brake lines and any other lines required to make this bus operable again. The transmission might be gone too, but perhaps it is still good... if not, maybe a rebuilt Allison HT-740 tranny. Heres a couple of pics of the big bus move that morning. This is how the Flyer was loaded. The bus is shot!, its terrible that this Flyer bus has to meet this fate. the wiring, the engine, everything is shot. Before this bus was donated to CHBM, CTA made it certain it would never run again. There's talk that the Flyer may be removed from the collection. Currently the bus sits at a lot along with another bus collection down near Joliet off of 53 and Caton Farm Rd. Its personal for me because I drove this bus from "The Glen" when she was in service. Then to see it in this condition, I wish i could restore it. I remember when my dad first drove the Flyers out of North ave. garage back in 83. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Heres a couple of pics of the Flyer bus move that morning. The bus is shot!, its terrible that this Flyer bus has to meet this fate. the wiring, the engine, everything is shot. Before this bus was donated to CHBM, CTA made it certain it would never run again. There's talk that the Flyer may be removed from the collection. Currently the bus sits at a lot along with another bus collection down near Joliet off of 53 and Caton Farm Rd. Its personal for me because I drove this bus from "The Glen" when she was in service. Then to see it in this condition, I wish i could restore it. I don't quite understand the purpose of CTA making the bus immobile and powerless to move on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I don't quite understand the purpose of CTA making the bus immobile and powerless to move on its own. Does the word "liablility" mean anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Does the word "liablility" mean anything? Ok I get that part. But if the bus isn't going anywhere besides CHBM property I don't get what they can be liable for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Ok I get that part. But if the bus isn't going anywhere besides CHBM property I don't get what they can be liable for. Thats exactly the point, they (CTA) figure if the bus cant run then they cant get sued if the bus is involved in an accident while in the care of CHBM. I wish we could get Flxible #5746 for the collection, in working condition of course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 I can sort of see the liability point, but it appears that CTA goes further than necessary. The Pace disposition agreement basically says that the bus can't be driven off the premises, but has to be towed or put on a lowboy; proof must be given of a new certificate of title, and if the bus is scrapped, of a junk or salvage title; and the bus is sold as is. Although, if you really want to get paranoid, MBTA or its predecessor was successfully sued by someone who was injured restoring a streetcar, on the basis that it was a merchant of that kind of property. In any event, CTA is demonstrating that it only sells scrap, while some Pace buses (at least the ones chronicled by RIPTA) had a second life. Update: In light of the discussion whether Seattle might have engaged in overkill regarding trade dress, I would have to acknowledge that the decision about what to do to limit liability, while possibly overkill, was up to the CTA to make, and it had the power to set the conditions on the sale of its equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 However, obviously not the original sign for that bus, as that style was only used on the 7400s (at least as original equipment). The 9000s started the Helvetica signs. Ahhhh, what I wouldn't give to have those signs back, no matter what print. Although it is noted that ADA now requires the new signage (I guess), I wonder what is more beneficial to the disabled...signs that tell you where you are going (as in the old days), or signs that abbreviate...or more often are dark ??? More to the topic though...is there a long term hope for the establishment of the museum at one place, or will this just end up being pretty much a private collection being moved from place to place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Thats exactly the point, they (CTA) figure if the bus cant run then they cant get sued if the bus is involved in an accident while in the care of CHBM. I wish we could get Flxible #5746 for the collection, in working condition of course! Then why is 9799 still in working condition? It is a CTA vehicle, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Then why is 9799 still in working condition? It is a CTA vehicle, no? CTA5750, I'm guessing you only drive for CHBM on some occasions. But if you know that Mgr/Owner of this rolling museum, see if he/she would be willing to look into a rehab of this bus. The CTA has plenty of Flyer workbuses still sitting around in 77th/Perry right now I bet since they were just stopped being used recently. If they can transfer a good working Detroit and tranny from them, plus fix the brake and other required lines, 1606 will roll again just like 9799 is. I know it is costly, but it does deserve to be drivable again. These were my favorite bus types, and it hurts me to see this vehicle immobilized like this, forced to be driven from location to location on a flatbed truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace2322 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I wolud love to see 1606 run soon to. But none of us that help have $20.000 in the bank so. Its kind of a big fight to keep that bus right now. I am one that wants to keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 CTA5750, I'm guessing you only drive for CHBM on some occasions. But if you know that Mgr/Owner of this rolling museum, see if he/she would be willing to look into a rehab of this bus. The CTA has plenty of Flyer workbuses still sitting around in 77th/Perry right now I bet since they were just stopped being used recently. If they can transfer a good working Detroit and tranny from them, plus fix the brake and other required lines, 1606 will roll again just like 9799 is. I know it is costly, but it does deserve to be drivable again. These were my favorite bus types, and it hurts me to see this vehicle immobilized like this, forced to be driven from location to location on a flatbed truck. Yes I volunteer my time during the spring and summer to help out with the bus collection. I agree with your statement, I wish it was easy to get the parts needed to restore Flyer #1606 to operating condition. But from what the CHBM tells me its a long shot of getting CTA to be willing to help in supplying the necessary parts. Its possible that the Flyer bus may not be in collection much longer unless CTA has a change of heart. A couple of years ago CHBM tried to aquire another exCTA fishbowl which was then assigned to the Chicago Fire Dept. In 2005 the CFD bus was involved in a collison with a school bus, only minor damage was done to the fishbowl and the bus was subsequently removed from CFD service never to operate again. The bus sat for a while at the city's shops yard at North ave. and Throop. I recall that the person in charge of CHBM back then Bruce Zummo made an attempt to have the city donate the bus before it was scrapped. Unfortunately it wasnt to be, the city did not approve of the deal and the bus was scrapped, today an exCTA 4900 RTS is in its place. The bus is stored at the Chicago Fire Academy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Then why is 9799 still in working condition? It is a CTA vehicle, no? Who knows, maybe management was more open to the idea. Today it isnt so easy. CTA management is so tight about how they run the system and they have no interest in preserving any history. The bus continues to operate thanks to a California bus collector. Bus 9799 along with CTA #375 spent some time at Dreamliner bus out in Perris, California just outside of Los Angeles. Its owner Loren Weeks did extensive work to the bus plus the warm California climate also helped preserve the bus and in 2006, CTA #9799 and CTA#375 were purchased from Dreamliner and the buses after a long cross country trip the buses returned home to Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Who knows, maybe management was more open to the idea. Today it isnt so easy. CTA management is so tight about how they run the system and they have no interest in preserving any history. I have a longshot idea that might help. If the owner can do a couple of donation events of some sort where people pay a certain fee to board or see the CHBM buses, and the money raised will be spent on restoring 'ol 1606 to operating condition. Also, can you see if you can arrange a Chicago event for CHBM? I'd love to come out and take some pics of 1606 and 9799! But without a car, I'm limited on where I can go to. I wish I could do a donation event and help out, but it'd take many events to raise 20k! Please see if they can keep this bus! It was donated for a reason, and deserves to stay in the CHBM collection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Why would 1606 necessarily need to be operative to be kept at the museum ??? IRM has many things that don't run, but having them there for viewing is just as important and the stuff running. There could always be the hope you could get it running again, should the museum take off, be it through donations, etc. If the CHBM is suppose to be a museum, then I think the have somewhat of an obligation to keep it for collectors sake, if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Why would 1606 necessarily need to be operative to be kept at the museum ??? IRM has many things that don't run, but having them there for viewing is just as important and the stuff running. There could always be the hope you could get it running again, should the museum take off, be it through donations, etc. If the CHBM is suppose to be a museum, then I think the have somewhat of an obligation to keep it for collectors sake, if nothing else. CHBM is a mobile museum, and it's probably less costlier for them to have a vehicle that can move under it's on power than to have one that requires a flatbed truck every time they move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Like Sw4400 says, CHBM needs to have like what IRM has, a day of General admission. You guys need to set up some kind of event, get a few drivers together and host an event. Slowly you can get #1606 back on it's feet. You guys need an indoor garage like IRM has too. The weather just beats up everything it touches. Too bad you couldn't partner up with IRM and have a super event, maybe get a part of the gate fee. You would work well together. It would also give you publicity, if you marketed yourself correctly. Maybe even have a donation box "help us save #1606 every penny counts." That's my 2 cents on the matter. On another subject, is #8715 operational? Never having ridden an #8700, I find myself somewhat fascinated with this bus, being that it's a propane bus. Nice to see it's recent repaint that you guys have done. It's a nice classic bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace2322 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 8715 is on the same boat as 1606. We have some guys that dont care about them being chicago buses so. If anyone wants to help all i have to say is to join. The more people we have that want to keep 1606 the better it will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Like Sw4400 says, CHBM needs to have like what IRM has, a day of General admission. You guys need to set up some kind of event, get a few drivers together and host an event. Slowly you can get #1606 back on it's feet. You guys need an indoor garage like IRM has too. The weather just beats up everything it touches. Too bad you couldn't partner up with IRM and have a super event, maybe get a part of the gate fee. You would work well together. It would also give you publicity, if you marketed yourself correctly. Maybe even have a donation box "help us save #1606 every penny counts." That's my 2 cents on the matter. On another subject, is #8715 operational? Never having ridden an #8700, I find myself somewhat fascinated with this bus, being that it's a propane bus. Nice to see it's recent repaint that you guys have done. It's a nice classic bus. Theres no doubt that 1606 will need lots of work , it could take a couple of years. Thats why the decision hasnt been made yet on the Flyer bus. If you want to see it now it is stored at a yard near Joliet where other old CTA buses are stored. Flxible propane #8715 has been a work in progress for a couple of years but lately all restoration work has been halted for now. CHBM has been meeting to decide on the fate of Flyer 1606, #8715 is expected to be kept in the collection. I agree that any kind of fund raiser would be a good idea but there has to be enough interest to try to raise money. The problem is that there isnt much interest out there. I know of a California collector of GMC Fishbowls who currently selling off his collection because he finds there is not enough interest or funds to keep the collection going. This collector had CTA #9799 and #375 out there for a few years, thats why 9799 still runs! CHBM managed to get the bus back home in 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldavio Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 This is my first reply so I hope counts. I am pretty sure there are some people out there who would like to make a donation for the restoration of flyer 1606. I personally would like to donate $100 for the effort. Where and who will receive the donation also are there anymore people who will donate anything? 200 x $100 apiece is $20,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPTA42 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 www.chbmbus.org. There's a PayPal button toward the bottom of the page for donations. Also, the Capital Acquisition Fund link explains why keeping 1606 around until the $20K comes in isn't economically feasible - monthly storage costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldavio Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Thanks. I will send in my donation right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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