When Did CTA Change #12 Roosevelt's West Terminal

[geneking7320]

:huh:

It appears earlier this year CTA changed the #12 Roosevelt bus' west terminal from Roosevelt/Monitor to Central/Harrison. I just noticed it a few weeks ago. I couldn't find anything on the CTA website (that could be my fault) and I was wondering what was the reason. Also, did CTA change the south terminal of the #91 Austin bus to cover the difference?

Gene King

[Guest]

It appears earlier this year CTA changed the #12 Roosevelt bus' west terminal from Roosevelt/Monitor to Central/Harrison. I just noticed it a few weeks ago. I couldn't find anything on the CTA website (that could be my fault) and I was wondering what was the reason. Also, did CTA change the south terminal of the #91 Austin bus to cover the difference?

Gene King

I noticed that same thing the other day coming home from the firehouse. I was crossing Roosevelt at Central and on a few occasions I saw this.

[Busjack]

This was discussed in the BusTracker thread starting on September 29, although it appears that the participants in this forum did not come to a conclusion.

[geneking7320]

This was discussed in the BusTracker thread starting on September 29, although it appears that the participants in this forum did not come to a conclusion.

Thanks for the note.

I do wonder how I missed seeing anything about the route change on CTA's site.

Oh well...

Gene King

[jajuan]

Thanks for the note.

I do wonder how I missed seeing anything about the route change on CTA's site.

Oh well...

Gene King

Also as for the route change notice on the CTA site, CTA itself caused a bit of confusion because the route change went through on Sept. 28 and the site was saying, during the first week of the change that the buses would no longer pull into the terminal and continue on to Roosevelt/Austin ending via a loop on Roosevelt, Austin, Fillmore, and Mason (their original plan apparently). This brought up a discussion between Busjack and I in the Bustracker thread that the final and current form of the terminal change was last minute. Bustracker had the route mapped as ending at Roosevelt/Mason. This wasn't corrected until that Wednesday (10/1). There also were no passenger notices on the bus stop signs that the terminal was changing. There was just an abrupt change and to a different terminal than the site mentioned. I myself didn't notice it until that Monday afternoon when I boarded a WB bus and the sign said '12 TO CENTRAL/HARRISON'. I thought it was just a change for certain rush hour trips at first, but I noticed that all WB buses had this destination beyond rush hour. Interestingly enough, the announcement system that first week was programmed to say 'Route 12 Roosevelt to Austin.' This was corrected by the second week. The website also had a corrected notice posted by the second week after the official change. About the only thing that was correct those first days of the change was the new schedule reflecting the Central/Harrison terminal.

UPDATE: I corrected my post here to state that the original plan was to change the west terminal to Roosevelt/Austin via Austin, Fillmore, Mason not Mayfield as I originally typed.

[CircleSeven]

Also as for the route change notice on the CTA site, CTA itself caused a bit of confusion because the route change went through on Sept. 28 and the site was saying, during the first week of the change that the buses would no longer pull into the terminal and continue on to Roosevelt/Austin ending via a loop on Roosevelt, Austin, Fillmore, and Mayfield (their original plan apparently).

I thought that street was Mason, like the 91 Austin, turns around it.

[jajuan]

I thought that street was Mason, like the 91 Austin, turns around it.

Oops, I do believe you're right. I don't know why I had Mayfield stuck in my head.

[CircleSeven]

Oops, I do believe you're right. I don't know why I had Mayfield stuck in my head.

Mayfield is the next street east of Mason where there's a traffic light there.

[jajuan]

Mayfield is the next street east of Mason where there's a traffic light there.

As a lifelong Westsider, I know that. I only meant I don't know why I let myself type Mayfield when the loop for the 12 was supposed to be that of the 91 to connect with that route. It makes no difference now since CTA went for a connection with the 85 Central and 7 Harrison at the last minute instead of the 91 connection.

[trainman8119]

It makes no difference now since CTA went for a connection with the 85 Central and 7 Harrison at the last minute instead of the 91 connection.

It would seem that the connection to the 85 instead of 91 would be simple to explain, since 85 operates longer than 91 does and would probably make for a better chance of someone getting from south to north and vice versa.

[jajuan]

It would seem that the connection to the 85 instead of 91 would be simple to explain, since 85 operates longer than 91 does and would probably make for a better chance of someone getting from south to north and vice versa.

Which is why I think more people were asking for a more direct connection to the 85 over the 91 even at least from far back as 1990 when my family was living in the Austin neighborhood during the early '90s. As I recall at the time, the residents there were asking for a reverse of what the CTA has now provided. They wanted the 85 to possibly run all the way down to Roosevelt instead of ending at Harrison. Well they got what they were asking for finally after almost 20 years even if it is the reverse by bringing the 12 to the 85 instead of the 85 to the 12. This way makes more of a logistical sense because of the existing off street terminal at Central/Harrison in the parking lot across the street from Loretto Hospital. Extending the 85 would have cause problems because of the issue of where would they route it to end at Roosevelt. The Roosevelt/Monitor terminal was already almost too small for the Roosevelt buses since the restaurant that the terminal wraps around left room for only one bus to stage on the side because that exit area was wide enough only for one bus at a time. Two buses could stage side by side in the rear of the restaurant, but of course they couldn't do that if there were buses behind schedule. In that situation only one bus could stage in the whole terminal because of that narrow exit. No wonder there were some buses going past the terminal to Austin and using the loop routing of the 91 even before the west terminal was changed officially. Also probably explains why the 12 hasn't had NABIs scheduled on some regular runs because of how tiny the old terminal is. A NABI would never make it around the curve of the terminal if there is a bus staging behind the restaurant.

[CircleSeven]

Anothing thing to think about too is the evening rush were there's commuters that don't take the I-290 westbound, and sometimes there's bottle-neck traffic going as far as Central to the light at Austin Blvd. I remember riding with a close friend of mine and of course we had to wait for almost 12 minutes becuase not only we wait for the traffic to subside before you get to Austin, we also had to wait for the Mayfield light as well. So the afternoon rush, traffic can surely be hectic on Westbound Roosevelt from Central to Austin.

[jajuan]

Anothing thing to think about too is the evening rush were there's commuters that don't take the I-290 westbound, and sometimes there's bottle-neck traffic going as far as Central to the light at Austin Blvd. I remember riding with a close friend of mine and of course we had to wait for almost 12 minutes becuase not only we wait for the traffic to subside before you get to Austin, we also had to wait for the Mayfield light as well. So the afternoon rush, traffic can surely be hectic on Westbound Roosevelt from Central to Austin.

Yes I've experienced the same riding through there with family. It would be comparatively smooth sailing past Austin, though sometimes we'd get lucky and manage to get through the light at Austin before it turned red.

[daerah]

When the service change took effect...(though I prefer to call it what it is....a SERVICE DISRUPTION)...several passengers were left distressed. I felt really bad for the people...I urged all of my concerned passengers to call/write/and visit the cta headquarters and place a complaint. Though the disruptive re-route is only a small stretch...only like 2 or 3 bus stops.... its still an inconvenience.

I told passengers they can either walk to Monitor (Old Terminal)..which is isn't too far. Yet...99% of the disembarked passengers would walk to Austin which is good little walk. Now that good little walk from Monitor is now a GREAT big walk from Central to Austin. Imagine senior citizens who are effected. And the PACE 305 runs in ridiculous frequency...averaging about every 2 years. So that does do no good either.

And for us operators, its a pain the neck. Sure, its a shorter distance...and we connect with the Central and Harrison bus at that terminal. Yet its no where for us to park the Roosevelt bus. There's one island and 2 bays for the Harrison and Central bus....when they're both occupying "their respective" stops...we have to wait..and further delay service to get out. Which we know, the 12 Roosevelt bus is relatively always late already. And then trying to make that right turn from the right lane is pure hell. You're over the curb, have to make cars back up, and its basically exactly like making a U-TURN out of there. So,...we make the right turn from the left bus bay where the Central bus lay over at. We just hope they sit back, until its time for them go...so we can get out.

My suggestion is cta should either re-route the 12 Roosevelt to Austin and Jackson, and have it meet and layover with the 126 Jackson bus. At there, 2 to 3 buses can sit there...which is more than the Monitor terminal can hold. Plus it would bridge passengers to Austin & Roosevelt, along Austin, and ti Austin & Jackson on one bus...eliminating the need for 2 and 3 buses and that wretched walk.

Or, if cta insists on allowing the 12 bus to layover at Central/Harrison, they should reverse the direction of entrance and exit. Once the Roosevelt makes that left turn onto the Harrison driveway, make another immediate left and go in the turn the opposite way, have buses come in the other way. Same for the Harrison and Central buses. Of course those parking lot spaces would have to be taken up.

But its cta...and the only way change will happen is when and if patrons complain to the highest level.

Thats just my two cents.

[daerah]

Also as for the route change notice on the CTA site, CTA itself caused a bit of confusion because the route change went through on Sept. 28 and the site was saying, during the first week of the change that the buses would no longer pull into the terminal and continue on to Roosevelt/Austin ending via a loop on Roosevelt, Austin, Fillmore, and Mason (their original plan apparently). This brought up a discussion between Busjack and I in the Bustracker thread that the final and current form of the terminal change was last minute. Bustracker had the route mapped as ending at Roosevelt/Mason. This wasn't corrected until that Wednesday (10/1). There also were no passenger notices on the bus stop signs that the terminal was changing. There was just an abrupt change and to a different terminal than the site mentioned. I myself didn't notice it until that Monday afternoon when I boarded a WB bus and the sign said '12 TO CENTRAL/HARRISON'. I thought it was just a change for certain rush hour trips at first, but I noticed that all WB buses had this destination beyond rush hour. Interestingly enough, the announcement system that first week was programmed to say 'Route 12 Roosevelt to Austin.' This was corrected by the second week. The website also had a corrected notice posted by the second week after the official change. About the only thing that was correct those first days of the change was the new schedule reflecting the Central/Harrison terminal.

UPDATE: I corrected my post here to state that the original plan was to change the west terminal to Roosevelt/Austin via Austin, Fillmore, Mason not Mayfield as I originally typed.

That ALSO made me upset...there were no passenger notice signs....the first day...then the days following..they were improperly placed, so folks couldnt really see them.

[trainman8119]

The bottom line...the CTA butchered the "customer service" end of the reroute.

[jajuan]

The bottom line...the CTA butchered the "customer service" end of the reroute.

No arguments there. I can vouch for that since I use the route almost everyday.

[MetroShadow]

I would argue this change would be for better connection between the 12 and 85, or eliminates the duplication on the 305.

This was a SNAFU caused by customer service.

There has to be at least a transfer point between the 85, 91, and the 12. I actually made the suggestion at the West Side Corridor meeting a couple of years back. I'm surprised they've not found a more feasible transfer method.

Then again, have every other bus go to Monitor would be the best idea, given that Roosevelt really stinks traffic-wise West of Central.

[trey824]

the westbound terminal was changed due to low ridership between the cicero stop on to monitor.i ride down to monitor sometimes and the bus is always empty or has maybe 1 person on it west of cicero.

[rmadisonwi]

the westbound terminal was changed due to low ridership between the cicero stop on to monitor.i ride down to monitor sometimes and the bus is always empty or has maybe 1 person on it west of cicero.

No. It was changed because CTA lost the lease on the terminal.

NIMB...I mean...neighbors and businesses just west of there didn't want additional buses laying over in front of their property, so the only other alternative was Harrison & Central.

[BUSANGEL#1]

No. It was changed because CTA lost the lease on the terminal.

NIMB...I mean...neighbors and businesses just west of there didn't want additional buses laying over in front of their property, so the only other alternative was Harrison & Central.

Why didn't cta use the #91 loop or layover?

[Busjack]

No. It was changed because CTA lost the lease on the terminal.

NIMB...I mean...neighbors and businesses just west of there didn't want additional buses laying over in front of their property, so the only other alternative was Harrison & Central.

Sounds like a similar situation to at 115th. In this case, one would have thought that CTA owned the turnaround, since it goes back to the start of trolley bus service, but apparently not.

You had the guy on Ask Carole beefing that CTA was giving away the land under unused turnarounds (such as on Lincoln south of Peterson), but, on the other hand, it appears that CTA doesn't have the ones it needs locked up.

[jajuan]

Why didn't cta use the #91 loop or layover?

I believe mention of neighbors and businesses in the area not wanting more buses laying over in front of their properties may answer that question. The 12 has had a higher number of buses operating in rush hour since the 127 was dropped in June. Those buses get bunched quite a bit during those times so you'd have a heck of a lot of buses trying to use the 91 loop. Fillmore and Mason are narrow streets so the other thing to consider besides people not wanting all those buses in front of their property is where would those buses go? It would be pretty hard trying to fit buses from two routes through there especially in winter when side streets like Fillmore and Mason don't get plowed that quickly after a snowstorm.

[trey824]

No. It was changed because CTA lost the lease on the terminal.

NIMB...I mean...neighbors and businesses just west of there didn't want additional buses laying over in front of their property, so the only other alternative was Harrison & Central.

oh ok thats right .it was kinda wierd any way for the buses to be right there.but there was very low ridership in that area no one lives over there>

[jajuan]

oh ok thats right .it was kinda wierd any way for the buses to be right there.but there was very low ridership in that area no one lives over there>

No it's not as much that as it's just more car drivers in that immediate location than transit users. There are plenty of residences. Alot of them just happen to be on adjacent streets. It's pleenty of houses or apartment buildings along Austin, Fillmore and Mason.