my bus swapping suggestions

[cta5300]

The Nova's at Archer should go to Kedzie Garage in exchange for the 800 New Flyers

The 900 Hybrids 900-905 should go to Chicago inexchange for 6000 Flxible

and some of the 4000 at 77 should go to Chicago

[cta5658]

The Nova's at Archer should go to Kedzie Garage in exchange for the 800 New Flyers

The 900 Hybrids 900-905 should go to Chicago inexchange for 6000 Flxible

and some of the 4000 at 77 should go to Chicago

here's my suggestion:

transfer 103rd's first batch of NF's to Chicago ave for their 6000's

[cta5300]

here's my suggestion:

transfer 103rd's first batch of NF's to Chicago ave for their 6000's

no becasue chicago garage has to many NF have a hybrid come in to the garage

[cta 5555]

I know keep the 6000s at chicago. We have to much nf right now! How about send some more 1000s to 74th.Also from what i been told by the shop guys the 4000s will not fit in our bays to fix them. Our bays are 57ft.

[tobuadantoq]

Novas at Forest Glen which are originally from Chicago Avenue (including 6726 and 6738) should go to North Park and New Flyers at North Park should go to Forest Glen. Novas at Archer which are originally from Chicago Avenue should go to Kedzie and New Flyers at Kedzie should go to Archer. There are too many New Flyers at Kedzie and North Park. Since Kedzie and Archer and North Park and Forest Glen are closer.

[T8H5307A]

here's my suggestion:

transfer 103rd's first batch of NF's to Chicago ave for their 6000's

Gee, everyone sure is hot to trot to rid us at Chicago of the 6000's! I won't have anything to look forward to driving at work then. I tell you one thing.... Friday I had run 107 (which is not an extra on the 11 anymore, but an extra run on the 66), and basically down Chicago I was in between 2 other buses (originally a 4 min headway, now with me out there was a 2 min headway) and I had a 6000 and I packed the people in on that Flxible! If I had a New Flyer, I would have left a lot more people on the corners, but with that Flxible, I got them all on and to their destination! So as much as you bash them, I much rather have one in that situation!

[cta_44499_FG]

Gee, everyone sure is hot to trot to rid us at Chicago of the 6000's! I won't have anything to look forward to driving at work then. I tell you one thing.... Friday I had run 107 (which is not an extra on the 11 anymore, but an extra run on the 66), and basically down Chicago I was in between 2 other buses (originally a 4 min headway, now with me out there was a 2 min headway) and I had a 6000 and I packed the people in on that Flxible! If I had a New Flyer, I would have left a lot more people on the corners, but with that Flxible, I got them all on and to their destination! So as much as you bash them, I much rather have one in that situation!

Agreed.

[Buslover88]

Gee, everyone sure is hot to trot to rid us at Chicago of the 6000's!

I'm certainly not. Even though I like the 1000s (yes, I'm nuts that way), I love (not like, love) seeing 6000s at Chicago. That means I don't have to go all over town tracking them down. I also agree that they help with the rush hour situations.

[Busjack]

.Also from what i been told by the shop guys the 4000s will not fit in our bays to fix them. Our bays are 57ft.

The first thing here of substance. If that's the case, that sure puts a crimp into making 66 BRT with articulated buses. Maybe that's why the plan was ashcanned.

[jajuan]

The first thing here of substance. If that's the case, that sure puts a crimp into making 66 BRT with articulated buses. Maybe that's why the plan was ashcanned.

It also speaks of poor planning. Why would you construct a new bus garage that can't accommodate the latest models of artics in the repair bay? Sure we didn't have 7500s in 1995 when Chicago was opened but you'd think someone would have done some form of research and learned that articulated buses were starting to be built at 60 ft long and not the 50 and 55ft of the previous MAN artic models that were here before the 7500s. As for swaps, how about a scratch to all prior suggestions and do no more swaps at all for a while. There have been absolutely too many in the past year, not to mention the last few months, to begin with. I know wishful thinking on that. Plus considering that six out of the eight garages have NFs, and a good number of them at that, saying that one or the other has too many doesn't make a good argument.

[Busjack]

It also speaks of poor planning. Why would you construct a new bus garage that can't accommodate the latest models of artics in the repair bay? Sure we didn't have 7500s in 1995 when Chicago was opened but you'd think someone would have done some form of research and learned that articulated buses were starting to be built at 60 ft long and not the 50 and 55ft of the previous MAN artic models that were here before the 7500s.

I always wondered how that many fit in Kedzie, which is older compared to Chicago. I also concur regarding the earlier MANs, some of which were reported assigned to Chicago as part of the Green Line replacement.

[BusHunter]

First I'd start with North Park. They could use some more #1900's. Borrowing from Kedzie and Chicago all the time is a waste of resources and money. Then I'd take the #6000's and distribute them around the system at all garages. (40 at each garage) This way they could be used as little as possible seeing as they are pushing 13 years old. Then I'd bring the Novas back to their original 4 garage placement. Then those 4 garages would get #1000's to supplement the second half of their fleets. This way #1000's would be the 40 foot bus of choice for the weekends. #6000's would be used for rush periods only. As far as statements on the 57ft. bays, sounds like Chicago might have a bit of a problem if BRT ever gets started. I would think other garages would have a similar issue, some being constructed in the early 1900's.

[Busjack]

I would think other garages would have a similar issue, some being constructed in the early 1900's.

Except those (77 and Archer) were constructed as streetcar barns, with continuous bays. Don't know where the repairs are done there, but that doesn't seem to have stopped assigning artics to there in the past (and 77 currently).

As far as the other proposals, those seem the most equitable. Somehow, though, CTA got off the track with the initial assignments of the 1000s, and then with the consolidation trend. I don't know if the consolidation saves them as much as thought, but you do now have the situation of entire garages going obsolete at once, as opposed to just Kedzie between 2001 and 2006.

[BusHunter]

Except those (77 and Archer) were constructed as streetcar barns, with continuous bays. Don't know where the repairs are done there, but that doesn't seem to have stopped assigning artics to there in the past (and 77 currently).

As far as the other proposals, those seem the most equitable. Somehow, though, CTA got off the track with the initial assignments of the 1000s, and then with the consolidation trend. I don't know if the consolidation saves them as much as thought, but you do now have the situation of entire garages going obsolete at once, as opposed to just Kedzie between 2001 and 2006.

I don't like the idea of putting all my eggs in one basket, so to speak. What if the one fleet type had a real problem that benched them. Imagine all the NABI's at one spot. It would ultimately lead to more wasteful swapping. On the positive side the newer buses would tend to have lower miles put on them, half of them at times sitting in the garage, but the maintenance can't be cheap for 13 -14 year old #6000's that are driven harder than they should be. It would be interesting to see what is ultimately more cost effective. I would think driving the new buses hard.

[geneking7320]

It also speaks of poor planning. Why would you construct a new bus garage that can't accommodate the latest models of artics in the repair bay? Sure we didn't have 7500s in 1995 when Chicago was opened but you'd think someone would have done some form of research and learned that articulated buses were starting to be built at 60 ft long and not the 50 and 55ft of the previous MAN artic models that were here before the 7500s. As for swaps, how about a scratch to all prior suggestions and do no more swaps at all for a while. There have been absolutely too many in the past year, not to mention the last few months, to begin with. I know wishful thinking on that. Plus considering that six out of the eight garages have NFs, and a good number of them at that, saying that one or the other has too many doesn't make a good argument.

Speaking of articulated buses... when CTA first tested an artic it was a 60ft MAN with 3 doors (IIRC) and this was likely back in the 1970s.They subsequently purchased 55footers but they should have considered the future back in those days.

Gene King

[Busjack]

Speaking of articulated buses... when CTA first tested an artic it was a 60ft MAN with 3 doors (IIRC) and this was likely back in the 1970s.They subsequently purchased 55footers but they should have considered the future back in those days.

Gene King

The pictures in Krambles's book show 3 doors on the Baron, but the left side pictures of it and 7013 show the same number of windows, so one would presume they were the same length.

[jajuan]

Except those (77 and Archer) were constructed as streetcar barns, with continuous bays. Don't know where the repairs are done there, but that doesn't seem to have stopped assigning artics to there in the past (and 77 currently).

As far as the other proposals, those seem the most equitable. Somehow, though, CTA got off the track with the initial assignments of the 1000s, and then with the consolidation trend. I don't know if the consolidation saves them as much as thought, but you do now have the situation of entire garages going obsolete at once, as opposed to just Kedzie between 2001 and 2006.

Valid point on the issue of going obsolete all at once. It doesn't seem a way to avoid it though with 1050 buses (counting the 800s and 900s). By the time the 40 ft NFs reach the limit of their FTA lifespan, the 6400s should be gone by then (who knows though with how long CTA holds buses) and no matter how you distribute them in the garages you're going to have just about every garage with a big number of obsolete buses needing replacement. Almost similar with the 5300s and 4400s which both were acquired starting in 1991, except it'll be one bus model instead of two.

[Busjack]

Valid point on the issue of going obsolete all at once. It doesn't seem a way to avoid it though with 1050 buses (counting the 800s and 900s). By the time the 40 ft NFs reach the limit of their FTA lifespan, the 6400s should be gone by then (who knows though with how long CTA holds buses) and no matter how you distribute them in the garages you're going to have just about every garage with a big number of obsolete buses needing replacement. Almost similar with the 5300s and 4400s which both were acquired starting in 1991, except it'll be one bus model instead of two.

Although I said I wasn't making predictions, my thought was more along the line of the year 2014 (6000s and 6400s) rather than 2018-2021 (New Flyers).

However, this does point out that CTA will be in a bind further down the road because it didn't consistently follow the 2000 policy of acquiring 175 buses a year. The Nova order sort of conformed to that, except that the 2000 and 2001 lots came together, but there was the interval before the 2002 ones (6709-6883) arrived.

At least the projected 2018-2021 bubble is over 3 years, while the 1991 buses were acquired virtually at once (as a result of the 1988 MAN proposed procurement being thrown out).