New Express Routes Coming Soon.

[BusHunter]

17 hours ago, west towns said:

Did anyone find where the usb ports are located?

That would be the $64,000 question!! I haven't seen any and I was all over the 600 highway bus on I-90 inauguration day. It remains a mystery. 

[Busjack]

Something shows up on WebWatch at the garage:

[Pace831]

361 has finally been added to Webwatch,  and 6380 is currently on it. So, we have the likely explanation for 6389 going to South.

On Sunday, I noticed 6622 was on PM 361, after coming off SB 349 at Harvey.

[Busjack]

On 12/20/2016 at 4:19 PM, Busjack said:

Half prophetic. I was checking out 604, and 6470 showed up on time, but with "A1 MESSAGE" and "A1 ME" in the run box.

I went by there this afternoon, and the sign is now 604 BUFFALO GRV/VIA DUNDEE. Maybe Pace is back to using streets as destinations (very rare these days), but it again shows the ambiguity in marketing.

[Pace831]

9 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I went by there this afternoon, and the sign is now 604 BUFFALO GRV/VIA DUNDEE. Maybe Pace is back to using streets as destinations (very rare these days), but it again shows the ambiguity in marketing.

Hasn't "via" usually been used to indicate routing variations, such as "834 VIA 63RD"? Your observation is unusual, because there aren't any variations on 604, so no need to point out "VIA DUNDEE". The inference might be that the Hintz Rd terminal is only a place to turn around, and the intent is to emphasize destinations along Dundee Rd.

[Busjack]

16 hours ago, Pace831 said:

Hasn't "via" usually been used to indicate routing variations, such as "834 VIA 63RD"? 

Actually, Pace vanished the word for a while around 2005, leaving  confusing combinations such as 250 DESPLAINES and 250 O'HARE/KISS AND FLY/DESPLAINES. Then it came back on other routes.

The last North Division restructuring, while retaining 562 GURNEE/via S U N S ET introduced several others where, in effect, the route name was second instead of first, such as 572 CLC/via WASHGTON and 565 CLC/via GRAND, although the return route to Waukegan Metra has 572 via WASHGTON, but no via Grand on 565.

Essentially my point was that I expected 604 Wheeling, but didn't get it, but all I should have expected is that Pace signs are inconsistent. Also, where the bus triangle is has an Arlington Heights address, even though the demolished Garden Fresh Plaza on the other side of the street in in Wheeling.

16 hours ago, Pace831 said:

The inference might be that the Hintz Rd terminal is only a place to turn around, and the intent is to emphasize destinations along Dundee Rd.

I had said before "is that the only reason it is going there?" The current Garden Fresh and Buffalo Grove HS on the map are in Buffalo Grove, although basically one can't tell what is Buffalo Grove and Arlington Heights.

[Pace831]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

I had said before "is that the only reason it is going there?" The current Garden Fresh and Buffalo Grove HS on the map are in Buffalo Grove, although basically one can't tell what is Buffalo Grove and Arlington Heights.

It's a lousy place for a turnaround if the bus can't safely pull off the street to lay over, which raises the question you mentioned before of why it doesn't go to Wheeling Metra instead. Maybe the apartments on the north side of Hintz Rd are expected to generate ridership.

[Busjack]

51 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

It's a lousy place for a turnaround if the bus can't safely pull off the street to lay over, which raises the question you mentioned before of why it doesn't go to Wheeling Metra instead. Maybe the apartments on the north side of Hintz Rd are expected to generate ridership.

The time (last time) when I saw it, it laid over next to a snow pile in front of some apartments, and north of the Garden Fresh parking lot, for about 3 minutes. I guess if the driver has any "business" he has to do it at the NWTC or at the 7-11.

[BusHunter]

Was out around O'hare yesterday and spotted a highway bus without the express logos on the side. Checked the tracker and it seems to be #6506 as that was all that was out there.

[Pace831]

On December 22, 2016 at 5:48 PM, west towns said:

Did anyone find where the usb ports are located?

Pace's updated homepage has the answer: under the seats.

[Busjack]

Daily Herald article that the Tollway Authority is thinking about BOS on the Tri-State between Rosemont and 95th, also that the I-90 Park and Rides at Ill. 25 and Barrington Road won't be done until fall.

[BusHunter]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

Daily Herald article that the Tollway Authority is thinking about BOS on the Tri-State between Rosemont and 95th, also that the I-90 Park and Rides at Ill. 25 and Barrington Road won't be done until fall.

Interesting to say the least. While the existing BOS projects all go toward the loop this one would not, and that makes it more risky, but being as they have existing service like the #895, #888 and so on they can probably justify an expansion of service, but really maybe a corridor that would extend north towards Gurnee Mills wouldn't be bad either as it has virtually no connection other than Metra to the existing transit network to the south. Maybe it wouldn't need the BOS treatment that far north as the traffic would be better. It would be interesting to at least explore it. 

Really what would work well is a BOS transit connection to an "L" service or the loop. This doesn't have that. But an I-290 connection would and it can have the traffic generators for growth like the Oakbrook area or even up route 53 towards woodfield/nwtc. They actually could establish a network that connects to other BOS express service but I guess that could happen on the tri State too. This is where the project can really excel and multiply it's ridership.

So question is then what happens to the Eldorkos that use #895? They become express Eldorkos or they just order more highway buses?

[Busjack]

49 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Interesting to say the least. While the existing BOS projects all go toward the loop this one would not, and that makes it more risky, but being as they have existing service like the #895, #888 and so on they can probably justify an expansion of service

Going to the Loop isn't the criterion--providing faster bus service where there is an expressway or tollway is, and generally not parallel rail service. For instance, I knew someone who at one time (no longer, and it didn't even make sense) went from the Park Ridge area to Loyola Medical Center, and had schedules for 240 and 331. Theoretically, if there were a station at I-294 and Roosevelt Road, this trip could have been sped up.

This also seems an offshoot of the Pace-Tollway application for the Compobus lane on I-294, which was not granted.

49 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

but really maybe a corridor that would extend north towards Gurnee Mills wouldn't be bad either as it has virtually no connection other than Metra to the existing transit network to the south. Maybe it wouldn't need the BOS treatment that far north as the traffic would be better. It would be interesting to at least explore it. 

That stretch of the Tollway was rebuilt a couple of years ago. The 636 Rosemont-Lake Cook bus failed, but maybe because prior to reconstruction, it was scheduled as a half-hour ride, but due to congestion took more like an hour. There was also the 894 Lakehurst-Lake Cook bus that failed. There is 284 to Great America, at about 9:50 a.m. F,Sa,Sun. But (like 272 no longer really serving Vernon Hills to Barclay Blvd.) there doesn't seem to be the demand in that part of Lake County.

49 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

Really what would work well is a BOS transit connection to an "L" service...

Well, that's what you just took a picture of.

49 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

But an I-290 connection would and it can have the traffic generators for growth like the Oakbrook area

That basically gets down to if the Eisenhower-Blue Line project gets off the ground, what connections would be provided from the Forest Park or Hillside terminal, such as bringing back 747, or working on the 322 ART as a connection to the Pink Line. However, unlike I-55, the talk about tolled congestion lanes in the Oak Park area is not for buses, for obvious reasons, the Blue Line.

49 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

even up route 53 towards woodfield/nwtc.

There was the 655 bus from Bolingbrook to NWTC via 355/53, instituted with 755 and failed rather rapidly.

49 minutes ago, BusHunter said:

So question is then what happens to the Eldorkos that use #895? They become express Eldorkos or they just order more highway buses?

Considering that the Tollway is only thinking about it, that seems premature. I suppose if this goes forward, Pace asks for another CMAQ grant to get the buses.

[BusHunter]

Really what would make BOS really successful is building offshoot stations on the side of the highway with a parking lot attached or a way to get to the street/community. It then could function like a Metra or L service not spending the money on infrastructure but getting the same results. The Barrington road i90 station I believe simulates this. This station I believe is the future prototype of the way this project will turn out. 

In Asian markets and maybe even in Canadian markets they have gone as far as building brt like ramps that serve only the bus traffic to get the bus where it needs to go. It still wouldnt cost them the price of a heavy or light rail alternative. That's the bottom line. Pace has really stepped into the future here with these bos projects. I have to commend them on there hard work. 

The question remains how would they like to proceed? As a park n ride type feeder service or as a community point station serving areas of high volume similar to an all state arena or job campus.

This tri state project would challenge that question. Because it is a matter of who your serving park n rides (suburb to suburb which you could drive) or active points which people arrived with no car

 

[west towns]

The suburbs have more jobs than the loop so going downtown is not a requiremwnt.  With oak brook rosemont and direct link to schaumburg i294 hits all three.

 

I would say this is nothing new but a continuation of the ill fated Tiger application a few yrs ago.  

[Busjack]

14 hours ago, BusHunter said:

The question remains how would they like to proceed? As a park n ride type feeder service or as a community point station serving areas of high volume similar to an all state arena or job campus.

So far, what they have done on I-90 and what Vision 2020 (now close) indicate both. So far they have been a bit light on the community point, as indicated by ,my discussion at the workshop a couple of years ago that they really haven't integrated plans for Milwaukee Pulse with the Niles Free Bus, although they indicated that they were going to, and the current lack of integration with the Schaumburg Trolley, 611 not really being a distributor, and the Barrington Road distributor not being in service yet. But some of those things should be coming within the year.

I also wonder, since Sears HQ seems to be losing employees left and right, whether Pace willl keep 610 as a Sears Center Park and Ride Route or just rely on the Barrington Road Park and Ride and run a distributor from Sears HQ to there.

[Pace831]

17 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I also wonder, since Sears HQ seems to be losing employees left and right, whether Pace willl keep 610 as a Sears Center Park and Ride Route or just rely on the Barrington Road Park and Ride and run a distributor from Sears HQ to there.

The idea of replacing 610 is a good one, but I wouldn't say the loss of jobs at Sears is the primary reason. The I-90 buses are supposed to expand job access, but currently someone from Elgin going to Prairie Stone would need to ride all the way to Rosemont and back, which would just make them choose to drive. Creating a rush hour distributor to the Barrington Road station would allow travel to more places than just Rosemont.

[Busjack]

49 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

but currently someone from Elgin going to Prairie Stone would need to ride all the way to Rosemont and back, which would just make them choose to drive.

There used to be a 555 between Elgin and Prairie Stone (generally interlined with 554). Again, since there was a call to retain 554 and none to retain 555, I don't think the demand is there.

49 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Creating a rush hour distributor to the Barrington Road station would allow travel to more places than just Rosemont.

True, but the recent pdfs indicate that the Barrington Road distributor is to serve south of the Tollway.

[Pace831]

40 minutes ago, Busjack said:

I don't think the demand is there.

The hypothetical route I mentioned would replace 610 by providing a last mile connection to 603 and 605. According to RTAMS, 555 had about 70 riders per day. With the new express network now in place, I don't think it would be too hard to increase ridership by at least that much. Because Elgin to Prairie Stone is a small market, it isn't practical to create a separate route for it, but it can still be served by adjusting the existing service.

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

True, but the recent pdfs indicate that the Barrington Road distributor is to serve south of the Tollway.

That's correct, but I was referring to the fact that Prairie Stone doesn't have bus service to anywhere other than Rosemont, to make the case for changes to 610 which would not affect the "Barrington Road distributor" that Pace plans to implement.

[Busjack]

3 hours ago, Pace831 said:

The hypothetical route I mentioned would replace 610 by providing a last mile connection to 603 and 605.

We don't disagree on that.

[west towns]

Were all assuming sears is only business in Prarie  stone which it isny and when it goes bankrupt no one moves into their building.   I doubt a building will sit empty like that in this corridor.   Land values are at a premium.

[Busjack]

31 minutes ago, west towns said:

Were all assuming sears is only business in Prarie  stone which it isny and when it goes bankrupt no one moves into their building.   I doubt a building will sit empty like that in this corridor.   Land values are at a premium.

It is all relative. For instance Schaumburg is making a big effort to redevelop the Motorola Solutions campus (see, e.g. here, regarding TIF money if Motorola keeps 1000 jobs). They moved their HQ to the Union Station neighborhood downtown.Then there is stuff like McDonalds and associated companies moving to the city from Oak Brook, United moving to Willis Tower from Elk Groive, Kraft downtown from Northfield, etc. Supposedly, the millenials don't want to commute to the suburbs.

Someone may want to move into the vacated places, but land is not at a premium.

This certainly isn't the situation like in about 1984, where a subscription bus system was supposedly set up to keep Sears in Illinois. Out of 12 or so routes, none exist today; the only public transportation is 610. One bus on that route serves Siemens and Claire's, but it used to also serve places like Ameritech.

[west towns]

Milennials dont want to move out of city until they get married.  I think too much is being placed on them that they will not move out of the city with high taxes and urban life gets old carting around baby strollers and making costco diaper runs.   Yea they may rely more on non personal vehicle ownetship but the lull of the burbs will get them out of the city.  Anyway companies move in and companies move out.  Route 610 one trip to claires will be replaced by the barrington road station giving them lots of service cutting down travel time in half .

[artthouwill]

16 hours ago, Busjack said:

It is all relative. For instance Schaumburg is making a big effort to redevelop the Motorola Solutions campus (see, e.g. here, regarding TIF money if Motorola keeps 1000 jobs). They moved their HQ to the Union Station neighborhood downtown.Then there is stuff like McDonalds and associated companies moving to the city from Oak Brook, United moving to Willis Tower from Elk Groive, Kraft downtown from Northfield, etc. Supposedly, the millenials don't wan

This certainly isn't the situation like in about 1984, where a subscription bus system was supposedly set up to keep Sears in Illinois. Out of 12 or so exist today; the only public transportation is 610. One bus on that route serves Siemens and Claire's, but it used to also serve places like Ameritech.

Those subscription riders were a different market,  generally south side and South Suburbanites whose jobs were transferred from Sears Tower to Hoffman Estates.   With the long commute coupled with corporate downsizing,  it only made sense to do away with the subscription service. 

[Busjack]

Passenger Notice that 606 will be improved to once every half hour on weekends, effective Mar. 5.