Buses/Routes at Archer Garage

[jirehlovescta]

If Archer Garage is closing, then what routes that are currently at Archer, are going to be at in the future ?

Where are the buses that are at Archer are going to as well ?

Does anyone know ? Any thoughts ?

[New Flyer]

Most of them will probably go to 74th, Western may go back to North Park.

[Busjack]

Not on the inside, but probably 21 and 60 go back to K. Something probably goes from C to FG (because FG is losing X80), and something probably goes from K to C, Most of the rest to 74th seems to make sense, since it is losing X9, 53AL, and X55. C is in a similar situation, since it loses X20 and X54. Because 77 loses X3 and X4, it also picks up something, but I doubt something as heavy as Halsted (but that is possible).

In fact, NP doesn't have any routes on the list. Since Rodriguez is disclaiming cutting rush hour service, NP really can't assume more, unless it shifts something to FG, but as the people here have noted, FG already has the crosstown routes in that area. One can safely assume it is not transferring any of the hybrid artic routes out.

One can wonder (but not know until Feb. comes) whether they will undo some of the more questionable moves (in terms of where the routes start and end) such as 145 and 148 from NP to K.Again, I'm sort of betting not.

[artthouwill]

I would love to take a crack at how this could play out. This is just my opinion: if it were me, I'd

8 Halsted: K - 77th

10 Musuem: K to 103rd

21 Cermak: A - K

35 35th: A - K

39 Pershing: A - 77th (optimas)

43 43rd : A - 77th (optimas)

44 Wallace/Racine: 74th to 77th

49/X49 Western: A to 74th/NP

50 Damen: A to NP

54B S Cicero: A to 74th or C

55A/55N - Combine with 55 Garfield, alternating buses west of Mdw station, 74th garage

60 Blue Island/26: A to K

62H Archer: 74th

62 Archer: A to K

75 74/75: 74th to 77th

94 S California: A - 74th

134/143/145/148 - K to NP

77th has the most room followed by North Park

170/171/172 - A to 77th (optimas)

63W 63rd/165 W 65th: Combine with 63rd and still serve Midway Orange line operating from 74th

I forgot X49 won't exist anymore.

Due to the recent garage shift, NP lost runs so it has room to take on additional routes like 49 Western

[New Flyer]

Both 75th and Halsted came from 77th at one time

[jajuan]

If any of these cuts play out, and I'm saying if because I'll believe it when I see it with this scenario popping up before, I could see 94 possibly going to Kedzie since it was there once before. Not sure about a move of 134, 143, 145 or 148 all jumping to NP since NP has a heavy load already as pointed out. You have to do quite an amount of shifting to FG to accomplish that, and you can only do so much of that with FG still having heavy routes like 56, 77 and 80 and the other crosstown E/W routes from Belmont on up going north. And there's a limit to how much you can switch from FG to C that's in the vicinity of C since C would still have a number of relatively heavy routes that would be hard to shift to K because again as noted K would still be heavy after any cuts as well. 10 to 103rd is questionable. 77th maybe if it would have to move. But in any event none of us can know outside speculation what happens until Feb 7th which is still almost 3 1/2 months away.

[RJL6000]

If any of these cuts play out, and I'm saying if because I'll believe it when I see it with this scenario popping up before, I could see 94 possibly going to Kedzie since it was there once before. Not sure about a move of 134, 143, 145 or 148 all jumping to NP since NP has a heavy load already as pointed out. You have to do quite an amount of shifting to FG to accomplish that, and you can only do so much of that with FG still having heavy routes like 56, 77 and 80 and the other crosstown E/W routes from Belmont on up going north. And there's a limit to how much you can switch from FG to C that's in the vicinity of C since C would still have a number of relatively heavy routes that would be hard to shift to K because again as noted K would still be heavy after any cuts as well. 10 to 103rd is questionable. 77th maybe if it would have to move. But in any event none of us can know outside speculation what happens until Feb 7th which is still almost 3 1/2 months away.

And because of this wackiness, I am suspecting that #21 and #60 might be run from FG or 77 instead of K--and that would create a huge mess. And by this logic, several other routes would be run from garages that are extremely far away from any of the routes' relief points.

With all this being a possibility, the only way to "fix" this (other than by eliminating additional routes) would be to build a new garage to replace A. But that would require even more money and more funding that neither the CTA nor the State of Illinois currently has.

[BusExpert32]

If any of these cuts play out, and I'm saying if because I'll believe it when I see it with this scenario popping up before, I could see 94 possibly going to Kedzie since it was there once before. Not sure about a move of 134, 143, 145 or 148 all jumping to NP since NP has a heavy load already as pointed out. You have to do quite an amount of shifting to FG to accomplish that, and you can only do so much of that with FG still having heavy routes like 56, 77 and 80 and the other crosstown E/W routes from Belmont on up going north. And there's a limit to how much you can switch from FG to C that's in the vicinity of C since C would still have a number of relatively heavy routes that would be hard to shift to K because again as noted K would still be heavy after any cuts as well. 10 to 103rd is questionable. 77th maybe if it would have to move. But in any event none of us can know outside speculation what happens until Feb 7th which is still almost 3 1/2 months away.

I don't think any route will be heavy anymore if their proposal for cutting frequency everywhere goes through.

Anyway, are you enjoying the possibility of all the 6000s being out (even though the whole bus system will be reduced to a complete inconvenience)?

[jajuan]

I don't think any route will be heavy anymore if their proposal for cutting frequency everywhere goes through.

Anyway, are you enjoying the possibility of all the 6000s being out (even though the whole bus system will be reduced to a complete inconvenience)?

Not at the expense of having service cut to the degree as proposed. I may not be fond of the darn things but at least they are helping to keep the system running. My position has been that they be replaced not dumped for the sake of chopping service.

[shaq 74th]

Hello everyone I have been thinking long and hard about how the CTA would ration Archer's routes should it close. Again I could be wrong but this is what I have come up with.

Kedzie would lose the #8 halsted but would regain:

21 cermak

60 blue island

50 damen

94 california

Kedzie also stands to gain the the #62 archer

I see 74th only losing the #108 am runs and gaining a large chunk of archers runs.

This is how I see it breaking down.

74th stands to gain all of the routes at the 59th orange line terminal that includes:

165, 63w, 55a, 55n. 62h, 54b to go along with the routes already assigned to their garage like 63, 55, 59.

Don't be surprised if 74th ends up with regaining #8 halsted again although I could see the scheduling department assing this to 77th.

The 77th garage would see some additions also. I see it this way:

Routes 35, 39, 43 would all be assigned to this garage.

(Reason- relative ease to relief points via red line). I can see 77th also receiving

All or most of archers #120 downtown rush hour routes also. Also and as I stated earliar don't be surprised if the #8 halsted ends up here.

I can see the Chicago garage gainining the biggest street #49 western, due to location and available space. Also I wouldn't be surprised to see some of archers downtown 120 rush hour routes shared with 77th street.

Last but not least 103rd would regain the 170 university routes.

Again this is how I see it breaking down I could be totaly wrong but we shall see.....

[Busjack]

...

The 77th garage would see some additions also. I see it this way:

Routes 35, 39, 43 would all be assigned to this garage.

(Reason- relative ease to relief points via red line). ...

A good point not previously considered. Up to now, 77th's assignments have been based on proximity (although the debate about why it lost 29). If Archer goes, nothing is close to these routes, so relief via the Red Line is a possibility.

[qwantae]

If this cuts happens, Would Nova 6400s would go to the garages that never assigned before like 103rd or Kedzie?

[Busjack]

If this cuts happens, Would Nova 6400s would go to the garages that never assigned before like 103rd or Kedzie?

Don't know, but obviously they have to go from Archer, and something has to replace the 6000s. Unless they intend to ring up more costs by bus shifting, it would seem to make sense to try to replace 6000s where they now reside, not that that has been the CTA's pattern in the past 3 years.

[jacksone44]

I think with the retirement of the 6000's and closing of Archer, the shuffling is going to much beyond what needs to me moved out of Archer and what's being retired.

-All remaining 7 garages will add, dispose, or add and dispose routes.

-Each garage will likely shuffle something in regards to buses.

[rideonrulez]

I could see the scheduling department assing this to 77th.

Ummmm What are you trying to say about Scheduling??? LOL

Anyways, I just have to ask anybody in general on this board. Why do you guys waste massive brain power on who gets what and what goes where? Just curious....

[jajuan]

Either way we don't know what the deal will be until Feb. 7th or if anything happens at all. The debate in the legislature has started over the free rides program. Admittedly it's a long shot and uphill battle, but the Mayor actually said one thing that made since back when Blago set this fiasco in motion. It's tempting to want to give things away to different segments in society but folks shouldn't forget that when you do that, it still has to paid for by someone.

[cta 5555]

f

Ummmm What are you trying to say about Scheduling??? LOL

Anyways, I just have to ask anybody in general on this board. Why do you guys waste massive brain power on who gets what and what goes where? Just curious....

Maybe because thats all they have to do in there life? What do u think rideon? ;)

[Busjack]

Anyways, I just have to ask anybody in general on this board. Why do you guys waste massive brain power on who gets what and what goes where? Just curious....

Speculation has always been a fun part of this forum, so long as people do not purport to "know" what will happen or claim to have inside information they don't.

However, if you want to get to whether it has a real purpose, it is sport, sort of like sports betting, but without the assuredness that would have been possible if there were betting on pro wrestling, which there isn't. Now that you mention it, it sort of is like betting on pro wrestling, since it is predetermined by the people who issue the paperwork to the garages, but, also like pro wrestling, they aren't transparent, coherent, or consistent, and, occasionally, the outcomes have to be changed because of a broken clavicle or articulation joint. Someday the Undertaker will lose in Wrestlemania, but the suspense is determining if this is the one.

[artthouwill]

Hello everyone I have been thinking long and hard about how the CTA would ration Archer's routes should it close. Again I could be wrong but this is what I have come up with.

Kedzie would lose the #8 halsted but would regain:

21 cermak

60 blue island

50 damen

94 california

Kedzie also stands to gain the the #62 archer

I see 74th only losing the #108 am runs and gaining a large chunk of archers runs.

This is how I see it breaking down.

74th stands to gain all of the routes at the 59th orange line terminal that includes:

165, 63w, 55a, 55n. 62h, 54b to go along with the routes already assigned to their garage like 63, 55, 59.

Don't be surprised if 74th ends up with regaining #8 halsted again although I could see the scheduling department assing this to 77th.

The 77th garage would see some additions also. I see it this way:

Routes 35, 39, 43 would all be assigned to this garage.

(Reason- relative ease to relief points via red line). I can see 77th also receiving

All or most of archers #120 downtown rush hour routes also. Also and as I stated earliar don't be surprised if the #8 halsted ends up here.

I can see the Chicago garage gainining the biggest street #49 western, due to location and available space. Also I wouldn't be surprised to see some of archers downtown 120 rush hour routes shared with 77th street.

Last but not least 103rd would regain the 170 university routes.

Again this is how I see it breaking down I could be totaly wrong but we shall see.....

I think we agree on most shifts, but lets remember 74th is not a large garage. So if Archer's routes near Midway do go there, it will have to give up some routes, like 75th and maybe even 52A and 53A (77th can handle them).

I think 77th is the most logical place for the Uof C routes which would also support 39 and 43 going to 77th as well (routes being operated with Optimas). If not 77th, then 74th could take those routes along with the Midway area routes (that operate Optimas) and give up 75th, 52A and 53A along with the 108.

[Busjack]

I think we agree on most shifts, but lets remember 74th is not a large garage. So if Archer's routes near Midway do go there, it will have to give up some routes, like 75th and maybe even 52A and 53A (77th can handle them).

74th is already giving up X9, 52AL and X55. How many more buses would it need to give up? Probably none.

[BusHunter]

74th is already giving up X9, 52AL and X55. How many more buses would it need to give up? Probably none.

I would think they would give up more than that. Probably 74th will end up picking up everything south of the #39, including the #62. That's alot of additional buses, I would think the south end and the east end of 74th territory would have to shift to 77th. Something that we haven't mentioned is the fact 77th has a capacity over 400. If they don't want massive overcrowding at the other garages, I would think 77th would need to add routes to take the strain off everyone else. Something else that could be done to take the strain off Kedzie is too try and switch a few of those crosstown routes to other garages, for instance the #82 could go to Chicago and the #8 to 77th. Regardless though, I think it's going to be a real challenge to run without Archer garage.

[jajuan]

I would think they would give up more than that. Probably 74th will end up picking up everything south of the #39, including the #62. That's alot of additional buses, I would think the south end and the east end of 74th territory would have to shift to 77th. Something that we haven't mentioned is the fact 77th has a capacity over 400. If they don't want massive overcrowding at the other garages, I would think 77th would need to add routes to take the strain off everyone else. Something else that could be done to take the strain off Kedzie is too try and switch a few of those crosstown routes to other garages, for instance the #82 could go to Chicago and the #8 to 77th. Regardless though, I think it's going to be a real challenge to run without Archer garage.

Trying to squeeze 82 to Chicago is questionable because Chicago will still have 20, 53, 54, 66, 70, 72, 74 and 76, some of which they can't even operate on time now. Those routes in themselves are relatively heavy routes to cover especially 20, 53, 66 and 72. As for the 8, if it needs to move how about giving it back to 74th instead of pushing it to 77th and let 77th get the 29 back. Any way you slice it though, closing Archer is only going to create more headaches than they think they will be solving. And what happens when the economy improves? Do they restore the service that was eliminated and restore Archer as well as take back the el and express surcharges that're proposed now?

[Busjack]

Trying to squeeze 82 to Chicago is questionable because Chicago will still have 20, 53, 54, 66, 70, 72, 74 and 76, some of which they can't even operate on time now.

But not X20 or X54. At the moment, X20 has 9 buses on BusTracker, X54 has 11.

As I mentioned in connection with 74th, some people are forgetting that part of the cutback is eliminating the X routes (except X28 and X98), although you implied that you hadn't. Also, canning X80 may mean something moves from C to FG.

And what happens when the economy improves? Do they restore the service that was eliminated and restore Archer as well as take back the el and express surcharges that're proposed now?

If they junk the 6000s, they can't unless they miraculously get the money for the hybrid bus contract that either exists or doesn't. And then you would need a garage to house them.

I'm sure the fare increases and surcharges are permanent, unless some entirely new scheme for collecting fares emerges.

[jajuan]

But not X20 or X54. At the moment, X20 has 9 buses on BusTracker, X54 has 11.

As I mentioned in connection with 74th, some people are forgetting that part of the cutback is eliminating the X routes (except X28 and X98), although you implied that you hadn't. Also, canning X80 may mean something moves from C to FG.

If they junk the 6000s, they can't unless they miraculously get the money for the hybrid bus contract that either exists or doesn't. And then you would need a garage to house them.

I'm sure the fare increases and surcharges are permanent, unless some entirely new scheme for collecting fares emerges.

Sure X20 and X54 are to be cut but like Kedzie, Chicago has 6000s that will get junked. So Chicago will not necessarily have the equipment to cover 82. With the routes I mentioned, they'll still need what they will have to cover those despite increases in intervals. Who's to say that Chicago will get extra buses from Archer's possible closing? And I still say possible because with all the service reduction announcements that have come and gone, I'm at the point of believing it when I see it regardless of the state's inaction at the moment.

[Busjack]

Either the supposition is that the plan goes through or it doesn't. If it does, there is a need for 287 fewer buses, and since that is the capacity of a garage these days, the need for one less garage. The 250 buses from Archer then would have to go somewhere.

As I previously said, this is like betting on Wrestling, so all we can do is suppose.