Buses/Routes at Archer Garage

[artthouwill]

As a result of the Feb. service cuts, when will CTA put up its systemwide bid? Then we would know for sure which Archer routes would be going where. Also, would there be a secondary bid just in case funding comes up to save the X routes? My understanding is that, even if that funding came through, Archer would close.

[trainman8119]

I read the statements from RR regarding the closing of Archer, regardless of service cuts or not. Is this an out and out closure or is there a secret plan to level and rebuild, similar to Kedzie. I realize there is allegedly not any money to do it, but there wasn't any money last summer and, yet, they practically rebuilt the west leg of the Blue Line. Also there is still some mysterous funding from operations to lease the first of the 4000s. Still haven't heard where that money is coming from too !!!

[Busjack]

I read the statements from RR regarding the closing of Archer, regardless of service cuts or not. Is this an out and out closure or is there a secret plan to level and rebuild, similar to Kedzie. I realize there is allegedly not any money to do it, but there wasn't any money last summer and, yet, they practically rebuilt the west leg of the Blue Line. Also there is still some mysterous funding from operations to lease the first of the 4000s. Still haven't heard where that money is coming from too !!!

Both CTA and Pace always have their secret capital projects. However, I find it difficult to believe that a new barn would be built in place, in that that place isn't suitable (i.e. it is landlocked and basically surrounded by residential, school, and church uses). Given that someone is building in Bridgeport, CTA could clean up and sell that site, as opposed to 69th, which they basically had to give away to get the Food-4-Less.*

Archer now is in about the same position as Limits in the late 80s, early 90s, in which it was clear that it wasn't going to be rebuilt there [we discussed that the proposed site was around Diversey and Elston, and is no longer available], and there were people on John Kass's hit list willing to develop the land.

Of course, expecting anything rational from nearly anyone at CTA....

____________

*North Ave. could be a similar situation, except that the original plan was demo and rebuild, but someone said they wanted the land. Apparently not too badly, as CTA pretty much threw it in with the Limits deal, something Kass doesn't talk about.

[BusExpert32]

How about this for the CTA getting more money in next year's budget?:

Along with closing Archer Garage, the CTA should put a few (like 5 of each) 4400s and 5300s back into service and see how much the buses make in revenue if busfans like us flock to ride them.

I know, maintenence costs, etc.

[Busjack]

How about this for the CTA getting more money in next year's budget?:

Along with closing Archer Garage, the CTA should put a few (like 5 of each) 4400s and 5300s back into service and see how much the buses make in revenue if busfans like us flock to ride them.

I know, maintenence costs, etc.

Might not be as crazy as you think. However, I wonder how CTA could promote this in a profitable manner. Chicago-L.org has its annual historical L trip, but I don't think one could premise a business plan on that.

Also, to satisfy these cravings, one would have to know when and where the 10 out of 1700-2000 buses would appear. I don't believe the regular riders on, say 67, would appreciate having their route turned into a historical one.

There is finally the question whether any of them has avoided 92nd and Ewing or a similar fate in the about a year since they were taken out of service.

[BusExpert32]

Might not be as crazy as you think. However, I wonder how CTA could promote this in a profitable manner. Chicago-L.org has its annual historical L trip, but I don't think one could premise a business plan on that.

Also, to satisfy these cravings, one would have to know when and where the 10 out of 1700-2000 buses would appear. I don't believe the regular riders on, say 67, would appreciate having their route turned into a historical one.

There is finally the question whether any of them has avoided 92nd and Ewing or a similar fate in the about a year since they were taken out of service.

Yes, the #67 wouldn't be appropriate. Safer neighborhoods near the loop and northside would attract more people. Also, bustracker helps locate buses, or the CTA could announce routes and timetables.

BTW, there should be some kind of combination of at least 10 retired buses down south.

And actually, I think it's pretty feasible, but I just assumed that everyone here would laugh at the idea.

[Busjack]

Yes, the #67 wouldn't be appropriate. Safer neighborhoods near the loop and northside would attract more people. Also, bustracker helps locate buses, or the CTA could announce routes and timetables.

I picked it somewhat arbitrarily, in that it is a route that uses about 10 buses. However, given any route that uses about 10 buses, I still don't think that the riders would appreciate having a route with buses that, as you put it, have maintenance problems.

[BusExpert32]

I picked it somewhat arbitrarily, in that it is a route that uses about 10 buses. However, given any route that uses about 10 buses, I still don't think that the riders would appreciate having a route with buses that, as you put it, have maintenance problems.

I never said that all the buses would be on one route. That would be a little too much absurd due to the reasons you stated. So I'm going to say that 2-3 of these buses on a few routes each day would be fine.

[Busjack]

I never said that all the buses would be on one route. That would be a little too much absurd due to the reasons you stated. So I'm going to say that 2-3 of these buses on a few routes each day would be fine.

Of course you didn't, I did. However, that might be the recipe for interval bunching.

I suppose there are some enthusiasts who, for instance, know to look at BusTracker for when cta5555 (I believe he was the last big supporter of 5300s) will be doing his run on Division with a resurrected 5300, and keep monitoring that 5300 on a web-enabled cellphone to make sure he or she is at that bus stop when it passes. However, that's probably not enough to make a business plan.

[BusExpert32]

Of course you didn't, I did. However, that might be the recipe for interval bunching.

I suppose there are some enthusiasts who, for instance, know to look at BusTracker for when cta5555 (I believe he was the last big supporter of 5300s) will be doing his run on Division with a resurrected 5300, and keep monitoring that 5300 on a web-enabled cellphone to make sure he or she is at that bus stop when it passes. However, that's probably not enough to make a business plan.

Well, maybe it could be a business plan, since they could be run on weekends when intervals are greater and more people have time to wander about. So, as I mentioned, bustracker or CTA posting the exact times (like they did for the holiday train this year) are sufficient resources for the busfans that would really be interested.

[BusHunter]

I'm surprised there isn't a museum somewhere close to the loop for older buses and trains like they have in NYC. They could have transit days like they do and promote CTA history. With the film industry's interest in our loop "L" they could lease out equipment from time to time. They could put in exhibits on how the "L" works and even put in mock cabs perhaps connected to a simulater. Charge small fees at first and as the place grows increase the charge. With places like MSI charging 15-20 dollars a person, the fees could be used to help with budget shortfalls and the like. They could tap into the tourist market better than an IRM being local and compete with the other museums. Plus they would have the best equipment being able to supply the product with there own stock so to speak. (Right now #301 is the best of what's left of #300's)

[Busjack]

I'm surprised there isn't a museum somewhere close to the loop for older buses and trains like they have in NYC....

The only thing mentioned is that the Chicago History Museum has SSRT 1, and the Museum of Science and Industry has a horsecar and a cable car, but obviously none of that is operable.

I guess it was assumed that Union and South Elgin were sufficient. Lind had mentioned about how CTA had saved a couple of cars for its own museum, but subsequently CTA ran out of space and gave them to IRM.

[ChicagoNova]

Yes, the #67 wouldn't be appropriate. Safer neighborhoods near the loop and northside would attract more people. Also, bustracker helps locate buses, or the CTA could announce routes and timetables.

BTW, there should be some kind of combination of at least 10 retired buses down south.

And actually, I think it's pretty feasible, but I just assumed that everyone here would laugh at the idea.

No offense, but whoever would think that CTA should bring back some high-floor buses that they don't even use no more can't be serious. I mean why?

[BusExpert32]

No offense, but whoever would think that CTA should bring back some high-floor buses that they don't even use no more can't be serious. I mean why?

It was just an idea that the CTA could have a few special historic days in which they would put some retired buses into revenue service and see if any more money was made by busfans wanting to ride.

[Busjack]

No offense, but whoever would think that CTA should bring back some high-floor buses that they don't even use no more can't be serious. I mean why?

I see your point, and usually don't defend BusExpert, but...

I see his point that maybe CTA could make money by diversifying. That seems a constant theme in the CTA Tattler, but one in which I have recently refused to participate, on the basis that Daley's appointees think they have all the answers. The historical "moving exhibit" might make some money, but my prior comments indicate that I have a hard time seeing a business case for it.

One could also argue that since the CTA doesn't do much of a job in managing its transit agency, it probably couldn't manage this venture, either. However, like its real estate and advertising ventures, it could be contracted out.

I guess I didn't give BusExpert that good of a defense. :rolleyes:

[BusExpert32]

If money pops up again (like it usually does) and the cuts don't go through, it will be interesting to see Flxibles back on some routes that we thought were done with them forever, such as the #62 Archer- with Kedzie and 74th being the closest to it.

[BusHunter]

If money pops up again (like it usually does) and the cuts don't go through, it will be interesting to see Flxibles back on some routes that we thought were done with them forever, such as the #62 Archer- with Kedzie and 74th being the closest to it.

If there ends up being no cuts, it will be business as usual (Archer garage will not close) There shouldn't be any transfers so, Archer will still be Nova happy. If they do end up cutting service, some of FG's #6000 buses being rehabbed last (15 in 2008, the last in July of that year) will still be sort of fresh. Seems like such a waste to rehab a bus one year and retire it the next.

[BusExpert32]

If there ends up being no cuts, it will be business as usual (Archer garage will not close) There shouldn't be any transfers so, Archer will still be Nova happy. If they do end up cutting service, some of FG's #6000 buses being rehabbed last (15 in 2008, the last in July of that year) will still be sort of fresh. Seems like such a waste to rehab a bus one year and retire it the next.

I thought that the consensus here was that Archer would close either way.

[Busjack]

I thought that the consensus here was that Archer would close either way.

That's what cta_44499_FG indicated, but since that was attributed to "heard at the union," rather than official pronouncement...

I've noted various problems implementing a scenario with no service cuts, when the momentum seems to book the effects of service cuts, such as no need for either the 6000s or the 4208-4347s, or, in this case, Archer garage.

[dre_cta6221]

Well my sister was part of the part-timers that was supposed to be laid-off on Feb 7th, 2010...she told me yesterday that they was now being allowed to participate in the upcoming pick. That tells me that CTA will probably keep the part-timers.

[Busjack]

Well my sister was part of the part-timers that was supposed to be laid-off on Feb 7th, 2010...she told me yesterday that they was now being allowed to participate in the upcoming pick. That tells me that CTA will probably keep the part-timers.

Given that I am not in the inside, and no one knows the real answer to this poll question, I was wondering whether this is a contingency pick, in the sense of all that will be left when it gets to her turn are X9s and X55s, and while she may get them if those routes are still around on Feb 7, 2010, that isn't assurance that they will be. Is that how picks work?

[artthouwill]

Well my sister was part of the part-timers that was supposed to be laid-off on Feb 7th, 2010...she told me yesterday that they was now being allowed to participate in the upcoming pick. That tells me that CTA will probably keep the part-timers.

When isthis pick and what garage does she work? Maybe she can give you information regarding which garages are getting whidh Archer routes? Or is she participating only in a pick which envisions a no cuts scenario only?

[cta_44499_FG]

When isthis pick and what garage does she work? Maybe she can give you information regarding which garages are getting whidh Archer routes? Or is she participating only in a pick which envisions a no cuts scenario only?

Wrong..

This is the Winter pick. The cuts and layoffs are part of the Spring Pick...which would probably begin around that time.

[artthouwill]

Wrong..

This is the Winter pick. The cuts and layoffs are part of the Spring Pick...which would probably begin around that time.

The cuts are slated for Feb 7, way before the spring. Would it make sense to have a pick and then turnaround and have another pick within a month's time?

[BusHunter]

I thought that the consensus here was that Archer would close either way.

Well if there is to be no cuts, that would mean we still have 285 Flx's. That would really overcrowd the garages. I don't know if they could run what they have now in 7 garages. I believe in the past when a garage closed another temporary/new facility opened to help out. That was the case anyway with Lawndale garage IIRC. Also when Limits and Lawndale closed 7/2/94, Chicago opened. The same could be said for Beverly closing and 103rd opening (6/26/88) or 74th opening and 69th closing. (6/18/95) The only modern instance of a garage closing that I can think of without a replacement would be 52nd closing, (4/25/83) but 77th mostly took over that service IIRC, and they have over a 400 bus capacity.