Breaking News....

[Guest]

I just heard on WBBM radio that a CTA bus driver was beaten up by a passenger with hammer over a fare dispute. It happened earlier this afternoon. on a 53A So. Pulaski bus at 54th/Pulaski.

[Busjack]

A Chicago Breaking News story on this, but probably not more detail.

[rotjohns]

A Chicago Breaking News story on this, but probably not more detail.

What are they gonna have to do now? Put more cops on buses? And that area is not one of it's better Chicago areas to say the least. Over freakin $2 fare? Wow!

[Guest]

What are they gonna have to do now? Put more cops on buses? And that area is not one of it's better Chicago areas to say the least. Over freakin $2 fare? Wow!

Some drivers still choose to challenge the passenger. If that was the case, not a very smart move! Nowadays you have to be careful. A bus driver in New York City was killed over a fare dispute last year. The Milwaukee bus attack and there was recently one in Detroit that made headlines. Its getting more dangerous to be a bus driver. I think evn worse than a cab driver. Not to scare bus operators. I dont challenge fare disputes, Its only my part time job, Im not risking my life for $1.75! As long as they put in enough or close to it theres no issues. If there is a problem I wait until I have access to a police officer. Drivers on occassion just have to suck it up, let it go and deal with it. If it starts to get close to confrontation, thats what the silent alarm is there for.

[dann]

Some drivers still choose to challenge the passenger. If that was the case, not a very smart move! Nowadays you have to be careful. A bus driver in New York City was killed over a fare dispute last year. The Milwaukee bus attack and there was recently one in Detroit that made headlines. Its getting more dangerous to be a bus driver. I think evn worse than a cab driver. Not to scare bus operators. I dont challenge fare disputes, Its only my part time job, Im not risking my life for $1.75! As long as they put in enough or close to it theres no issues. If there is a problem I wait until I have access to a police officer. Drivers on occassion just have to suck it up, let it go and deal with it. If it starts to get close to confrontation, thats what the silent alarm is there for.

Here,here. It simply isn't worth it to challenge someone over a fare dispute. Besides the incidents that were mentioned, I still remember that cabbie who was killed by a city employee at Briar and Broadway over a fare dispute. Whenever there's a fare dispute, just let it go. Fare disputes rarely happen; the vast majority of riders do not get into disputes with drivers, even in places like Englewood or Lawndale.

[cta_44499_FG]

Update:

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/03/bus-driver-recovering-after-hammer-attack-over-40-cents.html

[Busjack]

Update:

http://www.chicagobr...r-40-cents.html

Based on this account, I am somewhat surprised that one passenger intervened and others called 911 on their cell phones. At least some good Samaritans out there.

[jajuan]

Some drivers still choose to challenge the passenger. If that was the case, not a very smart move! Nowadays you have to be careful. A bus driver in New York City was killed over a fare dispute last year. The Milwaukee bus attack and there was recently one in Detroit that made headlines. Its getting more dangerous to be a bus driver. I think evn worse than a cab driver. Not to scare bus operators. I dont challenge fare disputes, Its only my part time job, Im not risking my life for $1.75! As long as they put in enough or close to it theres no issues. If there is a problem I wait until I have access to a police officer. Drivers on occassion just have to suck it up, let it go and deal with it. If it starts to get close to confrontation, thats what the silent alarm is there for.

Before we start reading too much into the incident, despite the article saying it was a fare dispute we don't know if the driver actively challenged the passenger. It could have been a situation of the operator just saying 'Excuse me your card didn't read. Please try it again for me' or something to that effect and the guy then just could've snapped from that. I've witnessed situations like that, but they didn't progress to anything violent. In any event this moronic passenger was still wrong regardless. Nothing justifies attacking a driver with a hammer. That in itself shows this brute was unhinged. And yes kudos to the other passengers who called 911 and kept him from escaping.

UPDATE: After reading through the update article, it's pretty much apparent this idiot went psycho when told he didn't put in enough money. Despite the young lady mention the driver saying to the guy he needed a reduced far card or another dollar, the other witness who blocked the guy from leaving says the guy came out of nowhere with the hammer. From the mention that the bus in question didn't have the operator shield, apparently it may have been a NOVA recently moved from Archer to 74th since a lot of the 1000s have the shield.

[qwantae]

Actually it couldn't be the passengers fault because there are alot of issues been going on with fare machines not accepting Transit Cards (not because there wasn't any money in there, it could be because of alitle damage on the card. Because I get that twice before and I still have money in it and the Driver (Pace) still won't accept it, so i pay more fare because I don't want to argue or start trouble, I was in a hurry to get to my destination on schedule.

[qwantae]

Some drivers still choose to challenge the passenger. If that was the case, not a very smart move! Nowadays you have to be careful. A bus driver in New York City was killed over a fare dispute last year. The Milwaukee bus attack and there was recently one in Detroit that made headlines. Its getting more dangerous to be a bus driver. I think evn worse than a cab driver. Not to scare bus operators. I dont challenge fare disputes, Its only my part time job, Im not risking my life for $1.75! As long as they put in enough or close to it theres no issues. If there is a problem I wait until I have access to a police officer. Drivers on occassion just have to suck it up, let it go and deal with it. If it starts to get close to confrontation, thats what the silent alarm is there for.

It also happened in Grand Rapids, MI (The Rapid) that a driver nearly got stabbed by a passenger a week after their fare increased to $1.50 over a year ago. I did remember about New York City and Milwaukee incident. Either these people got to wake up and get over it or find a second job to pay enough fare or not ride at all because it's going to be more fare increases everywhere soon until this economy gets back in good shape. I mean this is ridiculous to feel that bus driver position could be one of the dangerous jobs as an repocession people.

[Guest]

Actually it couldn't be the passengers fault because there are alot of issues been going on with fare machines not accepting Transit Cards (not because there wasn't any money in there, it could be because of alitle damage on the card. Because I get that twice before and I still have money in it and the Driver (Pace) still won't accept it, so i pay more fare because I don't want to argue or start trouble, I was in a hurry to get to my destination on schedule.

Hey Qwantae!

Im not doubting your claim, but it can be the passengers fault and very often it is. But youre right, there are riders who routinely place a damaged card in the farebox where the farebox cant read it. Some have it that way by accident others do it because they know the farebox wont read it, trying to pull a fast one on an operator, the card may contain zero on it and then they tell the operator that the card has twenty bucks on it. The driver dosent have time to worry about why someones card cant be read in the farebox. He/She has to ask for the proper fare. Most times riders accidentally place the wrong card that may not contain money value on it then they realize they used the wrong card. But I guess its just a matter of giving the rider the benefit of the doubt. Some drivers will give it, some wont! Me personally, if I think the passenger is pulling a fast one on me, lets say he passes me a wrinkled, scratched up farecard, I do feel I have to question it. And very often the card is expired. They will even try to erase the date on it so that the operator has a hard time reading it and the operator cant question it. Now if the card is in good condition, the exp. date is good, the rider tells me he/she has had problems with it. I will tell them to report it to CTA or Pace asap and allow them to pass. But then sometimes you may later, run across that same passenger using that exact same card. Then I will request the proper fare. I try to be fair and honest by giving riders the benefit of the doubt, but also there comes a point when you have to do your job too!

[busaddictdm]

so terrible! i received this kind of the news in my maths major class, so i asked the man assalted the bus's driver, do you need medication? do you know the fare how much you need to pay? are you a student or an adult? have you got a unhealthy phychology? or any other reasons made you so sad before you assault the driver? do you like to be in jail? or lose your job?

[BusHunter]

Hey Qwantae!

Im not doubting your claim, but it can be the passengers fault and very often it is. But youre right, there are riders who routinely place a damaged card in the farebox where the farebox cant read it. Some have it that way by accident others do it because they know the farebox wont read it, trying to pull a fast one on an operator, the card may contain zero on it and then they tell the operator that the card has twenty bucks on it. The driver dosent have time to worry about why someones card cant be read in the farebox. He/She has to ask for the proper fare. Most times riders accidentally place the wrong card that may not contain money value on it then they realize they used the wrong card. But I guess its just a matter of giving the rider the benefit of the doubt. Some drivers will give it, some wont! Me personally, if I think the passenger is pulling a fast one on me, lets say he passes me a wrinkled, scratched up farecard, I do feel I have to question it. And very often the card is expired. They will even try to erase the date on it so that the operator has a hard time reading it and the operator cant question it. Now if the card is in good condition, the exp. date is good, the rider tells me he/she has had problems with it. I will tell them to report it to CTA or Pace asap and allow them to pass. But then sometimes you may later, run across that same passenger using that exact same card. Then I will request the proper fare. I try to be fair and honest by giving riders the benefit of the doubt, but also there comes a point when you have to do your job too!

Some Of CTA's fare media is defective. Anyone who uses a pass on a regular basis will tell you stories of cards that stop working during their validity. I know people who have had this happen up to 5 times already and they are honest people who I trust. Making matters worse, a monthly pass user if they use there pass daily will have a card that is not legible by the last week. And some of these fareboxes don't even print the date on the cards in the first place. Isn't that nice!! Basically then it's up to the driver to accept it or not. As strange as the problems start within 48 hours they usually clear up. cta needs too update there passes to smart card technology maybe perhaps making the cards reloadable so no passes would need to be made so they can save the agency money. Then they could erase this problem.

[Railwaymodeler]

Pace North has the student haul passes, campus connection, and a pass for students for summer.

My observation, is that some BTPUs will read a pass no matter how many times it has been washed, bent, whatever, and some only read pristine condition ones.

North's rule of thumb, as explained to me, is that if it does not show as hotlisted or deactivated on the BTPU, to let the kids with school passes have a seat and don't worry about it, unless it is obviously someone who cannot use a school pass (E.G. a 40 year old with a high school pass). We get plenty of people who try that up here.

So far as the fellow with a hammer: That is completely unexcusable, and I hope the judge throws the book at him.

I was talking to the general manager at Pace North lately, about how part of preventing driver assault is to take away reasons to assault them in the first place. While there is very little to be done about fare disputes, our problem up here, that I can imagine might result in an attack on a driver, is that all schedules for routes terminating at the Washington/Sheridan pulse point, show as going to the Metra station on request. The trip sheets for drivers show as not going to the station. The Safety manager tells them to only do what is on the trip sheet. Basically don't go to the metra station. the old general manager (Now recently retired) would tell them to go if the passenger requests it.

Some drivers go to the station, some don't, which causes frustration and confusion for passengers. It is a matter of time before one passenger misses his train connection due to driver not going to the station, and attacks an employee of Pace.

Maybe I am jaded with humanity as a whole, but I can vividly see in my mind, how that could happen.

[Guest]

Some Of CTA's fare media is defective. Anyone who uses a pass on a regular basis will tell you stories of cards that stop working during their validity. I know people who have had this happen up to 5 times already and they are honest people who I trust. Making matters worse, a monthly pass user if they use there pass daily will have a card that is not legible by the last week. And some of these fareboxes don't even print the date on the cards in the first place. Isn't that nice!! Basically then it's up to the driver to accept it or not. As strange as the problems start within 48 hours they usually clear up. cta needs too update there passes to smart card technology maybe perhaps making the cards reloadable so no passes would need to be made so they can save the agency money. Then they could erase this problem.

Youre correct, some of CTA's fare collection is or could be defective at times. But the problem is that this cant always be detected. Drivers are trained where they can decide when they believe a farecard machine is defective, but the technical aspects of it is not the drivers concern or responsibility. Cards are misread in the machines but that may not always indicate that the farebox or farecard machine is defective. It is ultimately up to the driver's discretion whether to allow a passenger to ride or pay an additional fare because of a farecard discrepancy. Some drivers choose to challenge it to a point to where it escalates into a fare dispute. Me personally as a bus operator, I think thats where the problem lies. Drivers are only trained to render fare collection equipment defective if the dollar bill slot isnt working, change isnt counting correctly, which most times I believe drivers tend to look the other way. Some drivers choose to continue operating in service even if the change collection dosent count properly, in this case a fare dispute is not possible due to the drivers decision. If the bypass lever is pulled, the bus should not be placed in service until it is fixed. But some drivers choose to make bad decisions by going in service knowing the bypass lever is pulled, I personally have witnessed this! The BTPU farecard machine not accepting cards. Its normal for the machine to not accept a few cards, but if it is rejecting all cards then the problem of course lies with the equipment and it this case also a fare dispute would not be valid. If I feel that the farebox or farecard machine isnt working properly, I will report it immediately to my supervisor and I will render the entire farebox out of service and no fares collected. I actually still posess a stack of the orange CTA defect stickers from my CTA days, which I will use on Pace buses. I make every attempt not to get into a fare dispute. But if I witness that a passenger is trying board without paying then I will challenge it and if needed, I will have police dispatched. And for those operators who choose to challenge a fare dispute because the passenger is five or ten cents short, I have a message for you! Let it Go!! In a case like that youre looking for some serious trouble! If theyre a few cents short big deal! Your life is not worth a bus fare!. Your biweekly paycheck still comes out the same if the passenger is short of the proper fare. I have personally witnessed a driver who stopped her bus because the passenger was ten cents short of the proper fare. I can only imagine how many fare disputes this operator get involved in a week!. Sometimes you have to just suck it up and let it go! Fare disputes are not good, it upsets the driver, neither the passengers or the drivers win, but there are ways to handle them without allowing it to escalate to violence. Ive been in my share of fare disputes in my seven years as a CTA bus driver. Driving Pace for Colonial, Ive been in maybe one or two fare disputes in the three years Ive been working here. Those incident were because of passengers choosing not to pay their fares. Ive never allowed a fare dispute escalate to a ponit where it could get violent. I have had police dispatched on a couple of incidents. But these passengers chose no to pay their fares. The best decision you can make is use your common sense!

[Busjack]

... to let the kids with school passes have a seat and don't worry about it, unless it is obviously someone who cannot use a school pass (E.G. a 40 year old with a high school pass). We get plenty of people who try that up here.

Hell, I don't know whether to try to pass a student pass or a seniors ride free pass, although I am closer to the latter.

Don't forget the incident a couple of months ago when the 83 year old man in Chinatown assaulted the driver, apparently because the machine couldn't read his senior free pass, and we discussed whether the driver should have let that slide.

Maybe the CTA request to convert fare cards to bank smart cards might take care of some of that, but I wonder if their cards are any sturdier.

[BusHunter]

One thing that I have noticed about CTA card validity disputes that are quite interesting is that at the CTA rail stations if a CA questions the validity of a card they can swipe it on a device that looks like a credit card swiper that's at the CA's box. This device will tell them the date of expiration. This way they can see if the card is valid or not. There should be some kind of backup system similar to this on the buses too. Maybe then there would be less disputes on this.

[Guest]

One thing that I have noticed about CTA card validity disputes that are quite interesting is that at the CTA rail stations if a CA questions the validity of a card they can swipe it on a device that looks like a credit card swiper that's at the CA's box. This device will tell them the date of expiration. This way they can see if the card is valid or not. There should be some kind of backup system similar to this on the buses too. Maybe then there would be less disputes on this.

It certainly would help! I dont think it will ease the problem but it would help.

[jajuan]

One thing that I have noticed about CTA card validity disputes that are quite interesting is that at the CTA rail stations if a CA questions the validity of a card they can swipe it on a device that looks like a credit card swiper that's at the CA's box. This device will tell them the date of expiration. This way they can see if the card is valid or not. There should be some kind of backup system similar to this on the buses too. Maybe then there would be less disputes on this.

It does sound like a good idea. A reasonable question would be where could it be efficiently placed on a bus given space limitations on a bus as opposed to at the rail stations. Still a reasonable idea to look into though.

[rmadisonwi]

The farecard readers on buses have the ability to check the value/validity of a transit card (without charging a fare), just like the little devices next to the CA booths at rail stations.

[Guest]

The farecard readers on buses have the ability to check the value/validity of a transit card (without charging a fare), just like the little devices next to the CA booths at rail stations.

Yes, but if a card is damaged some how the card reader most times wont give an accurate reading. There can be cards that may have money value on them but the card reader may still reject it as "INVALID"

[jajuan]

Plus I think the implication here was that there be a backup to the bus farecard machine much in the way the CA readers serve as a backup to a turnstile that may not read a card.

[Busjack]

Getting back to the point, the CTA Tattler had that the assailant was 16 and remanded to juvy.

I guess if hammers are outlawed, only punks will have hammers (and spray paint, and etching solution, etc. ).

Also a Channel 7 report about the injuries sustained by the driver.

[jajuan]

And from the way the story is unfolding, the driver didn't just challenge this young man just for the heck of it or some sense of bravado. He simply asked the young man to present a student ID and the kid allegedly just started attacking him with a hammer.

[BusHunter]

One thing that I have noticed about CTA card validity disputes that are quite interesting is that at the CTA rail stations if a CA questions the validity of a card they can swipe it on a device that looks like a credit card swiper that's at the CA's box. This device will tell them the date of expiration. This way they can see if the card is valid or not. There should be some kind of backup system similar to this on the buses too. Maybe then there would be less disputes on this.

I noticed now the CTA has put stickers on the card readers outside the CA's booth, encouraging riders to check the expiration dates on their transit cards and passes.