CTA Bus Rapid Transit (take two)

[Busjack]

I wouldn't put it past CTA to wrap a few buses and paste Jump logos on the rest for the time being. For all we know maybe #4090 was photoshopped.

Again, what I was thinking. But then they could have eliminated the line of junk.

I think it somewhat significant that there wasn't the usual press conference with Da Mare behind the podium, with Forrest, Gabe Klein, Gabe Kapler, Gabe Kaplan, Freddie "Boom Boom" Washington, and Terry Peterson flaking him. Just the tweeted photos or out of date file footage.

[Tcmetro]

Looks like CTA wants Ashland and Western to have real BRT unlike Jeffery:

http://www.transitchicago.com/westernbrt/

[Busjack]

Looks like CTA wants Ashland and Western to have real BRT unlike Jeffery:

http://www.transitch...com/westernbrt/

My take on it is that some consultant wants to justify the $1.6 million consultant's contract, based on an already-issued federal grant.

Unless the consultant comes up with some way to get the project into the more restrictive definition of BRT in sec. 5309, the everlasting lament of "a source of funding has not been identified" will recur.

In fact, I find it significant that none of our members from Chicago was the first to post this.

Update: I see that most of the alternatives posted by CTA (especially the center ones) choke off vehicular traffic on two major streets. I don't think that is going to go over well, especially at the environmental review stage.

[Kevin]

Unless the consultant comes up with some way to get the project into the more restrictive definition of BRT in sec. 5309, the everlasting lament of "a source of funding has not been identified" will recur.

What aspects are Ashland/Western missing in order to meet sec. 5309 requirements?

Looking at your past post, this project seems to fit the supplied definition. The only potential issue I see is the requirement for a "separated right-of-way" (emphasis mine). The current plans don't call for any physical separation of the bus lane, but something as simple as flexible delineator posts (à la protected bike lanes) might meet that requirement.

[Busjack]

What aspects are Ashland/Western missing in order to meet sec. 5309 requirements?

Looking at your past post, this project seems to fit the supplied definition. The only potential issue I see is the requirement for a "separated right-of-way" (emphasis mine). The current plans don't call for any physical separation of the bus lane, but something as simple as flexible delineator posts (à la protected bike lanes) might meet that requirement.

If nothing else, I would rely on:

" that includes features that emulate the services provided by rail fixed guideway public transportation systems, including--

...

(iv) any other features the Secretary may determine are necessary to produce high-quality public transportation services that emulate the services provided by rail fixed guideway public transportation systems."

this showing the intent that BRT should be BRT, and, undoubtedly meet the requirements of light rail vs. a streetcar (by analogy).

I don't think that subsections (i) and (ii) can be taken in isolation.

Even though you partially concede the separated right of way issue, I indicated above that if the consultant tries to implement that by any of the "center" options, including banning left turns on 16 miles of Ashland and Western, it isn't going to work, and certainly won't overcome community opposition.

[mkohut]

I have my doubts about it ever happening.

Not only with the issue of the center lane.

But,even if you want to make a bus lane where the cars are park.

You will need a lot of off street parking.

The other ideas will be on a list that the CTA has no money for.

[Busjack]

...

The other ideas will be on a list that the CTA has no money for.

Now you are getting somewhere.

5309 is the same program under which the Red Line extension would come. While it is clear that the Red Line project is a fixed guideway project, the last display board indicates that this has been under study for 6 years, and still hasn't gotten much into the environmental impact stage, and the current statement still says that a funding source has not been identified.

Considering that funding BRT under 5309 would compete with that, and all other 5309 projects, I certainly see little prospect of this being funded, especially to the degree you indicate is necessary.

[BusHunter]

This should be interesting, I wonder if they intend on tearing down any landscaped medians/planters as they would seem to be in the way if your thinking of running down the center of the street. BTW, I heard about a story the other day about a proposal to ask for a toll on the free expressways (the Ike, Stevenson and a few others) in exchange for providing an express lane. (Wouldn't that conflict with Pace express?) I wonder how long it will take for them to come up with the idea to encroach on the CTA BRT bus lane.

[Busjack]

... BTW, I heard about a story the other day about a proposal to ask for a toll on the free expressways (the Ike, Stevenson and a few others) in exchange for providing an express lane. (Wouldn't that conflict with Pace express?) I wonder how long it will take for them to come up with the idea to encroach on the CTA BRT bus lane.

The Pace express seems consistent with this, in that Pace gets free tolls on the Illinois Tollway.

I'm not sure how the diagram is to be interpreted, as showing only a merge lane or a separate HOV toll lane, but that diagram does say that transit vehicles and registered carpools ride free. On the Stevenson, the question is whether the bus stays on the shoulder and paying customers are in the HOV lane.

On I-90, all indications are that how the Pace service is supposed to operate will be coordinated with the Tollway Authority.

The encroach on the CTA bus lane goes back to my point on whether this is really a "separated right of way." Are they going to have "red light" cameras at every cross street to deter left turns?

But, I'm not betting on either project happening.

[mkohut]

Another consulted 1.6 million dollar richer for another project that won't happen.

[taphandiaye]

My take on it is that some consultant wants to justify the $1.6 million consultant's contract, based on an already-issued federal grant.

Unless the consultant comes up with some way to get the project into the more restrictive definition of BRT in sec. 5309, the everlasting lament of "a source of funding has not been identified" will recur.

In fact, I find it significant that none of our members from Chicago was the first to post this.

Update: I see that most of the alternatives posted by CTA (especially the center ones) choke off vehicular traffic on two major streets. I don't think that is going to go over well, especially at the environmental review stage.

This project should have been done a long time ago, so it's about time. My only concern is that too many people complain about traffic and they water it down.

[mkohut]

This project should have been done a long time ago, so it's about time. My only concern is that too many people complain about traffic and they water it down.

How can it be water down?

Read Busjack quote.I agree with it.This is another CTA project that has no money.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Let's look at positives, at least the CTA got to this stage of the project. Look how long it took the Jump to get off from being a proposed plan in 2007 into reality fall 2012. In this economy, be grateful that the CTA has proposed 2 projects in one off the ground. If the Jump becomes successful, this could push this 2 in 1 project further into becoming reality.

[mkohut]

Let's look at positives, at least the CTA got to this stage of the project. Look how long it took the Jump to get off from being a proposed plan in 2007 into reality fall 2012. In this economy, be grateful that the CTA has proposed 2 projects in one off the ground. If the Jump becomes successful, this could push this 2 in 1 project further into becoming reality.

I'm not trying to be negative about.I'm trying to face reality on it.Your going to have to find a lot of off street parking.Then the funding issue.

I can name projects that the CTA has no money for.

If you want to say there mismanagement that cost the CTA a lot of money like Block 37.I can name others.If they would stop mismanagement they might have some money for projects.

[Busjack]

Let's look at positives, at least the CTA got to this stage of the project. Look how long it took the Jump to get off from being a proposed plan in 2007 into reality fall 2012. In this economy, be grateful that the CTA has proposed 2 projects in one off the ground. If the Jump becomes successful, this could push this 2 in 1 project further into becoming reality.

I suppose you are eligible to vote for Dick Durbin, who keeps announcing these grants, like they are his own money, doesn't even come through with some of them, and then not have construction result.

This time, mkohut is absolutely right. I stand on that the purpose of these stimulus and planning grants is not to construct anything, but as a welfare program for consultants, just like the tax laws have been said to be welfare for lawyers and accountants. In this case, CTA proposed something because it could get $1.6 million of ARRA or similar money for it. The only thing that could be said for "this economy" is that if there were no recession, there would be no ARRA.

If CTA were serious about relieving congestion and improving travel time on the buses, it would have reinstated the X9 and X49. It did not. It still could. Instead, it takes the easy money and defrauds the riders into believing that going to a planning meeting will mean anything. Sound familiar?

I could list all sorts of planning grants that either came to nothing or for projects for which "a source of [construction] funding has not been found." But I am sure you are not interested. But to be clear, I blame Congress for this.

[artthouwill]

I suppose you are eligible to vote for Dick Durbin, who keeps announcing these grants, like they are his own money, doesn't even come through with some of them, and then not have construction result.

This time, mkohut is absolutely right. I stand on that the purpose of these stimulus and planning grants is not to construct anything, but as a welfare program for consultants, just like the tax laws have been said to be welfare for lawyers and accountants. In this case, CTA proposed something because it could get $1.6 million of ARRA or similar money for it. The only thing that could be said for "this economy" is that if there were no recession, there would be no ARRA.

If CTA were serious about relieving congestion and improving travel time on the buses, it would have reinstated the X9 and X49. It did not. It still could. Instead, it takes the easy money and defrauds the riders into believing that going to a planning meeting will mean anything. Sound familiar?

I could list all sorts of planning grants that either came to nothing or for projects for which "a source of [construction] funding has not been found." But I am sure you are not interested. But to be clear, I blame Congress for this.

Well said. The X9 and.X49 could've been part of the so called "decrowding" restructurings if they were truly serious. With the economy the way it is, its funny that money that could br put to good use gets wasted and accomplishes nothing except making connected people richer.

[mkohut]

This 1.6 million that is being wasted could have been part of the money use to bring back the bus routes that Busjack mention.

I don't want to go off topic.But,whatever happen to the nameing right of stations?

If the CTA was serious about it that would be another source of money for routes.

[Busjack]

This 1.6 million that is being wasted could have been part of the money use to bring back the bus routes that Busjack mention.

I don't want to go off topic.But,whatever happen to the nameing right of stations?

If the CTA was serious about it that would be another source of money for routes.

That's a good question. After hiring someone to sell them, we haven't heard anything.

There is also the company being paid supposedly to find a public private partnership for the Red Line extension. I don't think they will find anything, either.

However, I'm not sure that if the feds were asked to provide $1.6 million to reinstate X9 and X49. that they would. I previously criticized Congress for its lack of priorities (at the least) or con.

[CURRENTZ_09]

I'm not trying to be negative about.I'm trying to face reality on it.Your going to have to find a lot of off street parking.Then the funding issue.

I can name projects that the CTA has no money for.

If you want to say there mismanagement that cost the CTA a lot of money like Block 37.I can name others.If they would stop mismanagement they might have some money for projects.

@mkohut, all im trying to state is there are lot of negative comments about this project, which in some cases i can understand as the money could be used to update some of CTA's System-Wide Operations of today. But all i am stating is CTA riders ought to be in rejoyce that the CTA can plan and move ahead with any transit infranstruture project with the state of the economy today. @Busjack, my political believes are not up for discussion as this is my opinion. I will not do ANOTHER ROUND of Who's Right & Who's Wrong, if you would like a debate, please do that on your own personal time with somebody that actually has time.

[Busjack]

I will not do ANOTHER ROUND of Who's Right & Who's Wrong, if you would like a debate, please do that on your own personal time with somebody that actually has time.

Apparently you have a lot of time to praise Illinois politicians who can't do anything right.

So, maybe you should go to some board that actually discusses Wisconsin.

CTA riders and Illinois taxpayers don't need your condescension from north of the Cheddar Curtain. And that's how people in Illinois look at it.

[CURRENTZ_09]

Apparently you have a lot of time to praise Illinois politicians who can't do anything right.

So, maybe you should go to some board that actually discusses Wisconsin.

CTA riders and Illinois taxpayers don't need your condescension from north of the Cheddar Curtain. And that's how people in Illinois look at it.

@Busjack......................................................................................................................................................Is all we hear.

[mkohut]

I want to get back to Busjack point of x9 and x49.

The CTA thinks adding more buses to 9 and 49 is the answer.

If you look at there schedule during rush hours some of the trips take 2 hours.

If you had a x bus at lease a half hour can be taken off the trip.

[Busjack]

I want to get back to Busjack point of x9 and x49.

The CTA thinks adding more buses to 9 and 49 is the answer.

If you look at there schedule during rush hours some of the trips take 2 hours.

If you had a x bus at lease a half hour can be taken off the trip.

This seems a fair question, to which I don't have an obvious answer.

If you go back, around 2009, most of the resources were taken from the locals and put in the X routes, so that a local was about every 12 to 15 minutes.

With the 2010 cuts, the X routes were canceled (for the most part), and the resources put back into the locals, with a 20% cut overall.

BusHunter and I discussed whether it would have made more sense to cut the locals, or whether people would have squawked about having to walk a couple of more blocks to a bus stop. Even if both locals and X buses were each cut 20%, meaning that the locals would run every 20 minutes, I suppose that most people would have walked to the X stop.

I also suppose that a time study would have to be done to see if reinstating X service would cut the round trip time.

I also assume that since reports from the RTA and the Pace budget indicate that sales tax revenues have rebounded to 2008 levels, and rebounded better in the city than the suburbs, CTA would have money, but, as the restructuring indicates, is still pleading poverty. No proposed budget as of yet.

[mkohut]

I think they claim they don't have the extra money .So they can try to get more money from the state.

Without see the CTA whole budget its hard to say where the waste is besides Claypool 190,000 pay.

[Sam92]

Starting to see some of 103rd's artics lose their "CLEAN AIR HYBRID BUS" labels.