West Division - Changes & Restructuring

[Tcmetro]

The proposal is to cut peak frequency to 60 min: http://www.bensenville.il.us/CivicAlerts/SingleAlertItem?alertID=1145

[MetroShadow]

2 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

The proposal is to cut peak frequency to 60 min: http://www.bensenville.il.us/CivicAlerts/SingleAlertItem?alertID=1145

That branch didn't have the ridership to justify the 30 minute service to begin with. It's all industrial west of 25th, and those buses could be used elsewhere in West Division. 

[Busjack]

4 hours ago, Tcmetro said:

The proposal is to cut peak frequency to 60 min: http://www.bensenville.il.us/CivicAlerts/SingleAlertItem?alertID=1145

Looks like only the Bensenville view of things, not the whole story, and it looks like Bensenville used Pace's trade dress for its own purposes.

[Pace831]

1 hour ago, Busjack said:

Looks like only the Bensenville view of things, not the whole story, and it looks like Bensenville used Pace's trade dress for its own purposes.

"The village is opposed to these changes"... It's none of their business to try to enforce an opinion on this issue. Government is supposed to make decisions based on what the people want. This is Pace's decision, not Bensenville's, so the only involvement they should have is informing people of the proposed changes and public hearing. The fake Pace notice is enough evidence they only care about their reputation. If there isn't enough ridership it needs to be cut, hourly service is better than nothing.

Anyway, I guess this means there are other changes we haven't heard about yet.

[Busjack]

10 hours ago, Pace831 said:

"The village is opposed to these changes"... It's none of their business to try to enforce an opinion on this issue.

Village politicians have a First Amendment right to state their views and assemble for redress of grievances. No different than CTA holding a hearing on the Crowd Reduction Plan, except Terry Peterson had his hearing aide off for 4 years. It is still up to the Pace board to make a decision.

It is at least better than Northbrook coming out for hybrid buses for Highland Park, when it doesn't have any community transit itself.

[Pace831]

9 minutes ago, Busjack said:

Village politicians have a First Amendment right to state their views and assemble for redress of grievances.

But it isn't the purpose of government to do so. I'd be OK with it if it said "We believe the majority of Bensenville residents are opposed" or "Village President Frank Soto is opposed", indicating a personal opinion rather than "the village's opinion". His "informational" page reads like a reelection campaign. This is why I suspect that "the village's opinion" is more about preserving Soto's reputation than helping the riders of route 319.

[Busjack]

45 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

But it isn't the purpose of government to do so. I'd be OK with it if it said "We believe the majority of Bensenville residents are opposed" or "Village President Frank Soto is opposed", indicating a personal opinion rather than "the village's opinion". His "informational" page reads like a reelection campaign. This is why I suspect that "the village's opinion" is more about preserving Soto's reputation than helping the riders of route 319.

It could be, but you are essentially saying that politicians have lost their voice. Also, it is the village government's position if the board met on it, just like it was the village's decision (in that case Northbrook) to pass a resolution asking Cong. Kirk to send money so that HP could get 2 hybrid buses.Maybe it would have been better if it said Bensenville Village President Frank Soto opposes the plan, but that isn't much different.

What I implied  was improper in the pdf was copying the format of a Pace passenger notice, thus purporting that Pace was saying something that only the village  administration was.

[Pace831]

1 minute ago, Busjack said:

you are essentially saying that politicians have lost their voice. Also, it is the village government's position if the board met on it

I am absolutely not saying that. It just needs to be clear whose opinion is being expressed and in what context. If the village takes a position for the purpose of advocating what residents want and follows all the proper procedures to arrive at that position, then they're doing their job. If the board discussed this, the minutes of that meeting have not been approved yet, so I can't comment on that aspect. However, the fact that bus riders would generally be opposed to a service cut could justify their position even if the board hasn't heard any input from the community. The real issue here is whether the board (or Soto) wants to help the bus riders or preserve their reputation. The way the document was worded made me suspect the latter, which was the basis for my original comment on this issue.

[pudgym29]

On 5/7/2016 at 9:03 AM, Pace831 said:

I don't think the manufacturing district there attracts many bus riders, and the route through there isn't acting as a Metra feeder either. If I'm wrong and there is decent ridership in that area, they should at least go down River Road instead of Cumberland. Nobody is going to the cemetery/forest preserve and it would keep the Grand Ave portion more intact.

The more I look at it, I predict that the proposal will be basically split the Bensenville and Grand Ave trips into 2 routes but keep the routing the way it is, but eliminate the Mannheim-Belmont-25th trips.

As somebody who has used the #319 to get to the Hopscotch Bar in Franklin Park; I have been the only person standing on the northwest corner of Belmont & Cumberland waiting for one of the three outbound Bensenville runs in the afternoon. I would hope Pace keeps this routing, as it makes my getting to the #319 easier than going CTA Cicero to Fullerton and Fullerton west to [Narragansett | Nordica].

[west towns]

Pace cant afford to run a bus with 1 passenger during riah hour

  The buses can be used elsewhwre to bring in more risership.   Low markets like this can be served by other means.   I see uber in your future.

[MetroShadow]

5 hours ago, pudgym29 said:

As somebody who has used the #319 to get to the Hopscotch Bar in Franklin Park; I have been the only person standing on the northwest corner of Belmont & Cumberland waiting for one of the three outbound Bensenville runs in the afternoon. I would hope Pace keeps this routing, as it makes my getting to the #319 easier than going CTA Cicero to Fullerton and Fullerton west to [Narragansett | Nordica].

 

 

1 hour ago, west towns said:

Pace cant afford to run a bus with 1 passenger during riah hour

  The buses can be used elsewhwre to bring in more risership.   Low markets like this can be served by other means.   I see uber in your future.

 

Basically, you would have to time it correctly and take the one trip (or wait 60 minutes). Otherwise, go to Nordica. The buses can be used elsewhere in the system with more ridership potential. A deviation like this takes away core services (and with < 3 people on these trips really ain't worth it).

[renardo870]

Is there any information on the meeting of the Pace 319

[Busjack]

On 6/9/2016 at 8:53 AM, renardo870 said:

Is there any information on the meeting of the Pace 319

The ordinance implementing them is on the August 10 board agenda. However, I still don't see anything on what the substance of the changes is.

[west towns]

Wonder if it will pass the board approval whatever the change is

[Pace831]

6 minutes ago, west towns said:

Wonder if it will pass the board approval whatever the change is

It's almost guaranteed to if any potential opponents (maybe from Bensenville) couldn't find out what the changes are exactly. A better question is whether anyone went to the public hearing back in May.

[Busjack]

1 minute ago, Pace831 said:

A better question is whether anyone went to the public hearing back in May.

The staff recommendation to the Pace board would reflect any input at the public hearing. Basically anyone showing up at the meeting would be limited to a 3 minute statement in the public comment portion. However, what is surprising, compared to the DuPage project, is that Pace has not posted display boards on its website,

[Pace831]

6 minutes ago, Busjack said:

The staff recommendation to the Pace board would reflect any input at the public hearing. Basically anyone showing up at the meeting would be limited to a 3 minute statement in the public comment portion. However, what is surprising, compared to the DuPage project, is that Pace has not posted display boards on its website,

I didn't quite make my point. Unless somebody went to the hearing, no one has any idea what the changes are unless they found the document stating that Bensenville trips are being reduced. So in response to west towns' question, it's extremely unlikely that any opponents will show up at the board meeting tomorrow who could influence the staff recommendation at the last minute. Whatever the changes are will almost certainly be approved by the board.

[Busjack]

6 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

I didn't quite make my point. Unless somebody went to the hearing, no one has any idea what the changes are unless they found the document stating that Bensenville trips are being reduced. So in response to west towns' question, it's extremely unlikely that any opponents will show up at the board meeting tomorrow who could influence the staff recommendation at the last minute. Whatever the changes are will almost certainly be approved by the board.

Your conclusion is correct, but skips the point that if someone wanted to find out what was going on, they should have gone to the public hearing.

[Pace831]

1 minute ago, Busjack said:

Your conclusion is correct, but skips the point that if someone wanted to find out what was going on, they should have gone to the public hearing.

Isn't that what I implied by saying:

26 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

A better question is whether anyone went to the public hearing back in May.

and

9 minutes ago, Pace831 said:

Unless somebody went to the hearing, no one has any idea what the changes are...

 

[Busjack]

1 hour ago, Pace831 said:

Isn't that what I implied by saying:

and

 

Only implied, didn't state.

[renardo870]

On Thursday, June 09, 2016 at 8:53 AM, renardo870 said:

Is there any information on the meeting of the Pace 319

I wonder why it was so secretive....it wasn't even updated in the Hearing Results like the other changes were.

[Busjack]

11 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

I wonder why it was so secretive....it wasn't even updated in the Hearing Results like the other changes were.

The Hearing Results usually only after the Board voted on it, which would be today. But,again, I'm surprised that the display boards were not posted. Maybe, unlike the DuPage project, this is not an "improvement."

[renardo870]

On Thursday, June 09, 2016 at 8:53 AM, renardo870 said:

Is there any information on the meeting of the Pace 319

Any update on the 319 Grand changes?

[Busjack]

24 minutes ago, renardo870 said:

Any update on the 319 Grand changes?

Watch the board video at about 24:00.

Only thing said is that Bensenville's concerns have been met, which was that the landscape of Benesenville is rapidly changing, so sit on it. Otherwise they didn't say what is happening east of Bensenville, so you are going to have to wait until December.

And as Pace831 predicted, no public comment.

[Pace831]

2 hours ago, Busjack said:

Watch the board video at about 24:00.

Only thing said is that Bensenville's concerns have been met, which was that the landscape of Benesenville is rapidly changing, so sit on it. Otherwise they didn't say what is happening east of Bensenville, so you are going to have to wait until December.

And as Pace831 predicted, no public comment.

At about 23:35 it is mentioned that the east end of the route will be cut back to Grand/Nordica, because riders east of there can use CTA.

I got the impression those were the only changes, though they didn't explicitly say so.