Pace Roster

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

Just now, Busjack said:

It's Niles.

You’re right

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

Current 6323s Roster (up to 6391)

West Division: 6324, 6325, 6328, 6330, 6331, 6335 (Overhauled in 2021-2022ish), 6337, 6340, 6341, 6342, 6343, 6346, 6347, 6348, 6352, 6353, 6354, 6355, 6357, 6358, 6360 (Overhaul), 6363 (Overhaul), 6364, 6365, 6366, 6368, 6369, 6370, 6372, 6373, 6374 (Broken Trapeze, no-show on map, spotted on 331 the other day), 6376

MIA: 6323(1/17/25), 6326(1/15/25), 6327(10/9/24), 6329(OOS since early 2022), 6332(1/24/25), 6333(OOS since 12/26/2023), 6334( OOS since 7/27/2024), 6336(11/20/24), 6339(OOS since 7/5/2022), 6344(8/1/24), 6345(1/29/25), 6349(OOS since 7/27/2022), 6350(10/8/24), 6351(10/9/24), 6356(11/8/24), 6359(12/12/24, unit was overhauled and was in service for two weeks before disappearing), 6361(assuming it's OOS date is 9/5/24 if it hasn't shown up as 6370 on the tracker in September), 6362(3/20/24), 6367(unit has been OOS since 2021), 6375(unit has been OOS since 2021)

 

Southwest Division: 6338 (Active), 6371 (OOS on 1/16/25)

 

East Dundee 600/603/605/607:    6377, 6379 (Overhaul?), 6382, 6383, 6387, 6391.

Northwest: 6381, 6388.

MIA: 6378(NW, OOS since 11/15/2023), 6380(OOS since 6/30/2022), 6384(OOS since 7/30/2023), 6385(OOS since 11/11/24), 6386(OOS since 7/9/24), 6389(OOS since 11/12/24), 6390(OOS since 4/12/24, returned 1/13-1/14/25 but broke down again),.

 

It is possible that any units that I have bolded that are OOS might have been retired or could be under the process of an overhaul. These buses have hit 12 years of age so it is possible there might be a few at South Holland or maybe at South division, or they could be hiding at their garages. Looking at the 2025 budget, a snapshot from 12/31/2023 says there are 66 in the inventory and the fleet has a total of 68 buses, so it's possible 2 might have been widthrawn.

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Current 6323s Roster (up to 6391)

West Division: 6324, 6325, 6328, 6330, 6331, 6335 (Overhauled in 2021-2022ish), 6337, 6340, 6341, 6342, 6343, 6346, 6347, 6348, 6352, 6353, 6354, 6355, 6357, 6358, 6360 (Overhaul), 6363 (Overhaul), 6364, 6365, 6366, 6368, 6369, 6370, 6372, 6373, 6374 (Broken Trapeze, no-show on map, spotted on 331 the other day), 6376

MIA: 6323(1/17/25), 6326(1/15/25), 6327(10/9/24), 6329(OOS since early 2022), 6332(1/24/25), 6333(OOS since 12/26/2023), 6334( OOS since 7/27/2024), 6336(11/20/24), 6339(OOS since 7/5/2022), 6344(8/1/24), 6345(1/29/25), 6349(OOS since 7/27/2022), 6350(10/8/24), 6351(10/9/24), 6356(11/8/24), 6359(12/12/24, unit was overhauled and was in service for two weeks before disappearing), 6361(assuming it's OOS date is 9/5/24 if it hasn't shown up as 6370 on the tracker in September), 6362(3/20/24), 6367(unit has been OOS since 2021), 6375(unit has been OOS since 2021)

 

Southwest Division: 6338 (Active), 6371 (OOS on 1/16/25)

 

East Dundee 600/603/605/607:    6377, 6379 (Overhaul?), 6382, 6383, 6387, 6391.

Northwest: 6381, 6388.

MIA: 6378(NW, OOS since 11/15/2023), 6380(OOS since 6/30/2022), 6384(OOS since 7/30/2023), 6385(OOS since 11/11/24), 6386(OOS since 7/9/24), 6389(OOS since 11/12/24), 6390(OOS since 4/12/24, returned 1/13-1/14/25 but broke down again),.

 

It is possible that any units that I have bolded that are OOS might have been retired or could be under the process of an overhaul. These buses have hit 12 years of age so it is possible there might be a few at South Holland or maybe at South division, or they could be hiding at their garages. Looking at the 2025 budget, a snapshot from 12/31/2023 says there are 66 in the inventory and the fleet has a total of 68 buses, so it's possible 2 might have been widthrawn.

I thought I saw 6327 and 6350 in service recently  but I don't remember what days.   I think one was on the 322 and maybe the other one was a 301.

These buses are eligible for retirement this year.  However I would think that Pace will try to get another 6 years out of them.  Depending on how the new electric buses fare, perhaps Pace North and/or SW can send their buses to West.   Vur Pace NW isn't far behind Pace West  as far as the age of their buses and they are just as beat up or worse than West buses.  At least at West,  the New Flyers get the bulk of the work. 

The 15500s are due for retirement in 2027 and my guess is that won't make it past 2027 unless Pace fails to convert Pace South to Hydrogen fuel or anything other than CNG.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

8 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I thought I saw 6327 and 6350 in service recently  but I don't remember what days.   I think one was on the 322 and maybe the other one was a 301.

These buses are eligible for retirement this year.  However I would think that Pace will try to get another 6 years out of them.  Depending on how the new electric buses fare, perhaps Pace North and/or SW can send their buses to West.   Vur Pace NW isn't far behind Pace West  as far as the age of their buses and they are just as beat up or worse than West buses.  At least at West,  the New Flyers get the bulk of the work. 

The 15500s are due for retirement in 2027 and my guess is that won't make it past 2027 unless Pace fails to convert Pace South to Hydrogen fuel or anything other than CNG.

Maybe you saw them around and they never show up on the tracker, but I’ve been all around recently and none of those I’ve seen in person this year. The only one I know of that doesn’t show up is 6374 and I saw that on the 331 several times this week as a no-show on the map.

[Busjack]

15 hours ago, artthouwill said:

These buses are eligible for retirement this year.  However I would think that Pace will try to get another 6 years out of them.

I don't think so. You forgot the order for 47 hybrid buses (almost half 40'), Metzger saying that there would be a follow-up order with the Low/No grant, and, at the time the Wheeling garage was still on the schedule, Metzger said the CNGs were needed to replace life expired buses. Only ones like that are 2600s and 6323s.

[artthouwill]

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't think so. You forgot the order for 47 hybrid buses (almost half 40'), Metzger saying that there would be a follow-up order with the Low/No grant, and, at the time the Wheeling garage was still on the schedule, Metzger said the CNGs were needed to replace life expired buses. Only ones like that are 2600s and 6323s.

I forgot which board meeting it was but Metzger clearly stated that Pace was looking to replace the CNGs with hydrogen fuel buses.  Pace had received many complaints about the unreliability of service out south primarily because the CNGs were frequently breaking down.  During public comment there were at least two people  ( from different organizations) who opposed the conversion of Pace South to Hydrogen fuel.

The hybrid 40' buses could go anywhere but I doubt Pace West would be the recipients.  The majority of their buses are New Flyers so they don't have to run their 6323s as hard.  With Pace North going all electric  in addition to the hybrid orders, Pace Northwest or Pace Southwest would be the logical choices for the hybrids.  Since SW is already equipped with a charger ( more would be needed) i think they would be the logical choice for the 27 electrics Pace will receive with the Illinois EPA grant.

Since Pace is overhauling West's 6323s, that seems to signal they will be around for a few more years.  Besides,  Pace needs to make sure these electrics run and run consistently.   That is something CTA has struggled with. 

[Busjack]

32 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I forgot which board meeting it was but Metzger clearly stated that Pace was looking to replace the CNGs with hydrogen fuel buses.  Pace had received many complaints about the unreliability of service out south primarily because the CNGs were frequently breaking down.  During public comment there were at least two people  ( from different organizations) who opposed the conversion of Pace South to Hydrogen fuel.

The hybrid 40' buses could go anywhere but I doubt Pace West would be the recipients.  The majority of their buses are New Flyers so they don't have to run their 6323s as hard.  With Pace North going all electric  in addition to the hybrid orders, Pace Northwest or Pace Southwest would be the logical choices for the hybrids.  Since SW is already equipped with a charger ( more would be needed) i think they would be the logical choice for the 27 electrics Pace will receive with the Illinois EPA grant.

Since Pace is overhauling West's 6323s, that seems to signal they will be around for a few more years.  Besides,  Pace needs to make sure these electrics run and run consistently.   That is something CTA has struggled with. 

I was responding to your unfounded assertion that Pace would play CTA and rehab the 6323s.

On electric buses, Pace said the priorities were, in order, North, River, and SW. Pace also mentioned hydrogen at S, but something like 2029 (as all but 20 of the CNG buses are 2017 or later).

The bottom line is that I don't know how Pace will shuffle its fleet, but the electrics at N and the hybrids wherever will retire the 6323s.

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

I was responding to your unfounded assertion that Pace would play CTA and rehab the 6323s.

On electric buses, Pace said the priorities were, in order, North, River, and SW. Pace also mentioned hydrogen at S, but something like 2029 (as all but 20 of the CNG buses are 2017 or later).

The bottom line is that I don't know how Pace will shuffle its fleet, but the electrics at N and the hybrids wherever will retire the 6323s.

The problem with this theory is that, by the time these buses arrive, 6392 up to at Least  6509 will also be eligible for retirement.  You spotted 6392 and 6393 on WebWatxh in November of 2013.     And we haven't discussed any plans for Pace to replace the Axxeaa Express fleet either.

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The problem with this theory is that, by the time these buses arrive, 6392 up to at Least  6509 will also be eligible for retirement.  You spotted 6392 and 6393 on WebWatxh in November of 2013.     And we haven't discussed any plans for Pace to replace the Axxeaa Express fleet either.

If there is any problem with the theory, it is that Pace suspended work on NW based on uncertainty over electrification. Starting with 6392, those are NW buses. You were talking  W. That's 54 buses. There are 47 buses on order and a grant for 30 more. That's enough to assure that West's fleet will not go 20 years. There are also 22 electric buses supposedly coming in 2025, but whether they can be regularly deployed. no one knows.

As I said before, R (6377-6391) and NW are hung up on electrification.

The problem with your thesis is that you assume buses are replaced in order in the same garage. That has rarely been the case. For instance, when S got 6162 type NABIs, its Orion VIs went to NW. In the ENC era, NABIs went to W, eventually necessitating the order for NFs. When the outer cities got 30 ft buses, their NABIs went elsewhere, and the 2200s were retired.

[artthouwill]

46 minutes ago, Busjack said:

If there is any problem with the theory, it is that Pace suspended work on NW based on uncertainty over electrification. Starting with 6392, those are NW buses. You were talking  W. That's 54 buses. There are 47 buses on order and a grant for 30 more. That's enough to assure that West's fleet will not go 20 years. There are also 22 electric buses supposedly coming in 2025, but whether they can be regularly deployed. no one knows.

As I said before, R (6377-6391) and NW are hung up on electrification.

The problem with your thesis is that you assume buses are replaced in order in the same garage. That has rarely been the case. For instance, when S got 6162 type NABIs, its Orion VIs went to NW. In the ENC era, NABIs went to W, eventually necessitating the order for NFs. When the outer cities got 30 ft buses, their NABIs went elsewhere, and the 2200s were retired.

Actually I'm not assuming in order.   The case for not retiring W 6323s first is that they have had less wear and tear in the last 3 to 4 years.  That's not the case with NW buses.  Even SW buses might be in better shape.  O would think the better move would be to retire the most beat up buses, which I imagine a good number of them are at NW with some at W also.