Pace Roster

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

Just now, Busjack said:

It's Niles.

You’re right

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

Current 6323s Roster (up to 6391)

West Division: 6324, 6325, 6328, 6330, 6331, 6335 (Overhauled in 2021-2022ish), 6337, 6340, 6341, 6342, 6343, 6346, 6347, 6348, 6352, 6353, 6354, 6355, 6357, 6358, 6360 (Overhaul), 6363 (Overhaul), 6364, 6365, 6366, 6368, 6369, 6370, 6372, 6373, 6374 (Broken Trapeze, no-show on map, spotted on 331 the other day), 6376

MIA: 6323(1/17/25), 6326(1/15/25), 6327(10/9/24), 6329(OOS since early 2022), 6332(1/24/25), 6333(OOS since 12/26/2023), 6334( OOS since 7/27/2024), 6336(11/20/24), 6339(OOS since 7/5/2022), 6344(8/1/24), 6345(1/29/25), 6349(OOS since 7/27/2022), 6350(10/8/24), 6351(10/9/24), 6356(11/8/24), 6359(12/12/24, unit was overhauled and was in service for two weeks before disappearing), 6361(assuming it's OOS date is 9/5/24 if it hasn't shown up as 6370 on the tracker in September), 6362(3/20/24), 6367(unit has been OOS since 2021), 6375(unit has been OOS since 2021)

 

Southwest Division: 6338 (Active), 6371 (OOS on 1/16/25)

 

East Dundee 600/603/605/607:    6377, 6379 (Overhaul?), 6382, 6383, 6387, 6391.

Northwest: 6381, 6388.

MIA: 6378(NW, OOS since 11/15/2023), 6380(OOS since 6/30/2022), 6384(OOS since 7/30/2023), 6385(OOS since 11/11/24), 6386(OOS since 7/9/24), 6389(OOS since 11/12/24), 6390(OOS since 4/12/24, returned 1/13-1/14/25 but broke down again),.

 

It is possible that any units that I have bolded that are OOS might have been retired or could be under the process of an overhaul. These buses have hit 12 years of age so it is possible there might be a few at South Holland or maybe at South division, or they could be hiding at their garages. Looking at the 2025 budget, a snapshot from 12/31/2023 says there are 66 in the inventory and the fleet has a total of 68 buses, so it's possible 2 might have been widthrawn.

[artthouwill]

3 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Current 6323s Roster (up to 6391)

West Division: 6324, 6325, 6328, 6330, 6331, 6335 (Overhauled in 2021-2022ish), 6337, 6340, 6341, 6342, 6343, 6346, 6347, 6348, 6352, 6353, 6354, 6355, 6357, 6358, 6360 (Overhaul), 6363 (Overhaul), 6364, 6365, 6366, 6368, 6369, 6370, 6372, 6373, 6374 (Broken Trapeze, no-show on map, spotted on 331 the other day), 6376

MIA: 6323(1/17/25), 6326(1/15/25), 6327(10/9/24), 6329(OOS since early 2022), 6332(1/24/25), 6333(OOS since 12/26/2023), 6334( OOS since 7/27/2024), 6336(11/20/24), 6339(OOS since 7/5/2022), 6344(8/1/24), 6345(1/29/25), 6349(OOS since 7/27/2022), 6350(10/8/24), 6351(10/9/24), 6356(11/8/24), 6359(12/12/24, unit was overhauled and was in service for two weeks before disappearing), 6361(assuming it's OOS date is 9/5/24 if it hasn't shown up as 6370 on the tracker in September), 6362(3/20/24), 6367(unit has been OOS since 2021), 6375(unit has been OOS since 2021)

 

Southwest Division: 6338 (Active), 6371 (OOS on 1/16/25)

 

East Dundee 600/603/605/607:    6377, 6379 (Overhaul?), 6382, 6383, 6387, 6391.

Northwest: 6381, 6388.

MIA: 6378(NW, OOS since 11/15/2023), 6380(OOS since 6/30/2022), 6384(OOS since 7/30/2023), 6385(OOS since 11/11/24), 6386(OOS since 7/9/24), 6389(OOS since 11/12/24), 6390(OOS since 4/12/24, returned 1/13-1/14/25 but broke down again),.

 

It is possible that any units that I have bolded that are OOS might have been retired or could be under the process of an overhaul. These buses have hit 12 years of age so it is possible there might be a few at South Holland or maybe at South division, or they could be hiding at their garages. Looking at the 2025 budget, a snapshot from 12/31/2023 says there are 66 in the inventory and the fleet has a total of 68 buses, so it's possible 2 might have been widthrawn.

I thought I saw 6327 and 6350 in service recently  but I don't remember what days.   I think one was on the 322 and maybe the other one was a 301.

These buses are eligible for retirement this year.  However I would think that Pace will try to get another 6 years out of them.  Depending on how the new electric buses fare, perhaps Pace North and/or SW can send their buses to West.   Vur Pace NW isn't far behind Pace West  as far as the age of their buses and they are just as beat up or worse than West buses.  At least at West,  the New Flyers get the bulk of the work. 

The 15500s are due for retirement in 2027 and my guess is that won't make it past 2027 unless Pace fails to convert Pace South to Hydrogen fuel or anything other than CNG.

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

8 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I thought I saw 6327 and 6350 in service recently  but I don't remember what days.   I think one was on the 322 and maybe the other one was a 301.

These buses are eligible for retirement this year.  However I would think that Pace will try to get another 6 years out of them.  Depending on how the new electric buses fare, perhaps Pace North and/or SW can send their buses to West.   Vur Pace NW isn't far behind Pace West  as far as the age of their buses and they are just as beat up or worse than West buses.  At least at West,  the New Flyers get the bulk of the work. 

The 15500s are due for retirement in 2027 and my guess is that won't make it past 2027 unless Pace fails to convert Pace South to Hydrogen fuel or anything other than CNG.

Maybe you saw them around and they never show up on the tracker, but I’ve been all around recently and none of those I’ve seen in person this year. The only one I know of that doesn’t show up is 6374 and I saw that on the 331 several times this week as a no-show on the map.

[Busjack]

15 hours ago, artthouwill said:

These buses are eligible for retirement this year.  However I would think that Pace will try to get another 6 years out of them.

I don't think so. You forgot the order for 47 hybrid buses (almost half 40'), Metzger saying that there would be a follow-up order with the Low/No grant, and, at the time the Wheeling garage was still on the schedule, Metzger said the CNGs were needed to replace life expired buses. Only ones like that are 2600s and 6323s.

[artthouwill]

6 hours ago, Busjack said:

I don't think so. You forgot the order for 47 hybrid buses (almost half 40'), Metzger saying that there would be a follow-up order with the Low/No grant, and, at the time the Wheeling garage was still on the schedule, Metzger said the CNGs were needed to replace life expired buses. Only ones like that are 2600s and 6323s.

I forgot which board meeting it was but Metzger clearly stated that Pace was looking to replace the CNGs with hydrogen fuel buses.  Pace had received many complaints about the unreliability of service out south primarily because the CNGs were frequently breaking down.  During public comment there were at least two people  ( from different organizations) who opposed the conversion of Pace South to Hydrogen fuel.

The hybrid 40' buses could go anywhere but I doubt Pace West would be the recipients.  The majority of their buses are New Flyers so they don't have to run their 6323s as hard.  With Pace North going all electric  in addition to the hybrid orders, Pace Northwest or Pace Southwest would be the logical choices for the hybrids.  Since SW is already equipped with a charger ( more would be needed) i think they would be the logical choice for the 27 electrics Pace will receive with the Illinois EPA grant.

Since Pace is overhauling West's 6323s, that seems to signal they will be around for a few more years.  Besides,  Pace needs to make sure these electrics run and run consistently.   That is something CTA has struggled with. 

[Busjack]

32 minutes ago, artthouwill said:

I forgot which board meeting it was but Metzger clearly stated that Pace was looking to replace the CNGs with hydrogen fuel buses.  Pace had received many complaints about the unreliability of service out south primarily because the CNGs were frequently breaking down.  During public comment there were at least two people  ( from different organizations) who opposed the conversion of Pace South to Hydrogen fuel.

The hybrid 40' buses could go anywhere but I doubt Pace West would be the recipients.  The majority of their buses are New Flyers so they don't have to run their 6323s as hard.  With Pace North going all electric  in addition to the hybrid orders, Pace Northwest or Pace Southwest would be the logical choices for the hybrids.  Since SW is already equipped with a charger ( more would be needed) i think they would be the logical choice for the 27 electrics Pace will receive with the Illinois EPA grant.

Since Pace is overhauling West's 6323s, that seems to signal they will be around for a few more years.  Besides,  Pace needs to make sure these electrics run and run consistently.   That is something CTA has struggled with. 

I was responding to your unfounded assertion that Pace would play CTA and rehab the 6323s.

On electric buses, Pace said the priorities were, in order, North, River, and SW. Pace also mentioned hydrogen at S, but something like 2029 (as all but 20 of the CNG buses are 2017 or later).

The bottom line is that I don't know how Pace will shuffle its fleet, but the electrics at N and the hybrids wherever will retire the 6323s.

[artthouwill]

5 hours ago, Busjack said:

I was responding to your unfounded assertion that Pace would play CTA and rehab the 6323s.

On electric buses, Pace said the priorities were, in order, North, River, and SW. Pace also mentioned hydrogen at S, but something like 2029 (as all but 20 of the CNG buses are 2017 or later).

The bottom line is that I don't know how Pace will shuffle its fleet, but the electrics at N and the hybrids wherever will retire the 6323s.

The problem with this theory is that, by the time these buses arrive, 6392 up to at Least  6509 will also be eligible for retirement.  You spotted 6392 and 6393 on WebWatxh in November of 2013.     And we haven't discussed any plans for Pace to replace the Axxeaa Express fleet either.

[Busjack]

11 hours ago, artthouwill said:

The problem with this theory is that, by the time these buses arrive, 6392 up to at Least  6509 will also be eligible for retirement.  You spotted 6392 and 6393 on WebWatxh in November of 2013.     And we haven't discussed any plans for Pace to replace the Axxeaa Express fleet either.

If there is any problem with the theory, it is that Pace suspended work on NW based on uncertainty over electrification. Starting with 6392, those are NW buses. You were talking  W. That's 54 buses. There are 47 buses on order and a grant for 30 more. That's enough to assure that West's fleet will not go 20 years. There are also 22 electric buses supposedly coming in 2025, but whether they can be regularly deployed. no one knows.

As I said before, R (6377-6391) and NW are hung up on electrification.

The problem with your thesis is that you assume buses are replaced in order in the same garage. That has rarely been the case. For instance, when S got 6162 type NABIs, its Orion VIs went to NW. In the ENC era, NABIs went to W, eventually necessitating the order for NFs. When the outer cities got 30 ft buses, their NABIs went elsewhere, and the 2200s were retired.

[artthouwill]

46 minutes ago, Busjack said:

If there is any problem with the theory, it is that Pace suspended work on NW based on uncertainty over electrification. Starting with 6392, those are NW buses. You were talking  W. That's 54 buses. There are 47 buses on order and a grant for 30 more. That's enough to assure that West's fleet will not go 20 years. There are also 22 electric buses supposedly coming in 2025, but whether they can be regularly deployed. no one knows.

As I said before, R (6377-6391) and NW are hung up on electrification.

The problem with your thesis is that you assume buses are replaced in order in the same garage. That has rarely been the case. For instance, when S got 6162 type NABIs, its Orion VIs went to NW. In the ENC era, NABIs went to W, eventually necessitating the order for NFs. When the outer cities got 30 ft buses, their NABIs went elsewhere, and the 2200s were retired.

Actually I'm not assuming in order.   The case for not retiring W 6323s first is that they have had less wear and tear in the last 3 to 4 years.  That's not the case with NW buses.  Even SW buses might be in better shape.  O would think the better move would be to retire the most beat up buses, which I imagine a good number of them are at NW with some at W also.

[artthouwill]

On 2/7/2025 at 5:53 PM, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Current 6323s Roster (up to 6391)

West Division: 6324, 6325, 6328, 6330, 6331, 6335 (Overhauled in 2021-2022ish), 6337, 6340, 6341, 6342, 6343, 6346, 6347, 6348, 6352, 6353, 6354, 6355, 6357, 6358, 6360 (Overhaul), 6363 (Overhaul), 6364, 6365, 6366, 6368, 6369, 6370, 6372, 6373, 6374 (Broken Trapeze, no-show on map, spotted on 331 the other day), 6376

MIA: 6323(1/17/25), 6326(1/15/25), 6327(10/9/24), 6329(OOS since early 2022), 6332(1/24/25), 6333(OOS since 12/26/2023), 6334( OOS since 7/27/2024), 6336(11/20/24), 6339(OOS since 7/5/2022), 6344(8/1/24), 6345(1/29/25), 6349(OOS since 7/27/2022), 6350(10/8/24), 6351(10/9/24), 6356(11/8/24), 6359(12/12/24, unit was overhauled and was in service for two weeks before disappearing), 6361(assuming it's OOS date is 9/5/24 if it hasn't shown up as 6370 on the tracker in September), 6362(3/20/24), 6367(unit has been OOS since 2021), 6375(unit has been OOS since 2021)

 

Southwest Division: 6338 (Active), 6371 (OOS on 1/16/25)

 

East Dundee 600/603/605/607:    6377, 6379 (Overhaul?), 6382, 6383, 6387, 6391.

Northwest: 6381, 6388.

MIA: 6378(NW, OOS since 11/15/2023), 6380(OOS since 6/30/2022), 6384(OOS since 7/30/2023), 6385(OOS since 11/11/24), 6386(OOS since 7/9/24), 6389(OOS since 11/12/24), 6390(OOS since 4/12/24, returned 1/13-1/14/25 but broke down again),.

 

It is possible that any units that I have bolded that are OOS might have been retired or could be under the process of an overhaul. These buses have hit 12 years of age so it is possible there might be a few at South Holland or maybe at South division, or they could be hiding at their garages. Looking at the 2025 budget, a snapshot from 12/31/2023 says there are 66 in the inventory and the fleet has a total of 68 buses, so it's possible 2 might have been widthrawn.

6359 is currently on the 313. 

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

On 2/7/2025 at 11:04 AM, rotjohns said:

2745 hasn't been active since January 23 so I'm guessing that bus may have bit the dust and 2611 is replacing it.  I haven't seen it yet, but will watch for it to see it's condition as I'm surprised it's back too.

2745 has returned to service today

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

7 hours ago, artthouwill said:

6359 is currently on the 313. 

Yeah. I saw earlier

[rotjohns]

7 hours ago, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

2745 has returned to service today

So either 2611 was a loaner or if it is permanent, that makes 9 buses at MV Batavia.  Currently, only 711 and 715 run routes from there.  715 runs 3 buses/day while 711 runs anywhere from 1-3 buses depending on time of day.  Seems odd to ultimately have 3 spares there unless either there's a bus in worse shape than realized or something bigger is brewing that requires more buses.  

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

2 hours ago, rotjohns said:

So either 2611 was a loaner or if it is permanent, that makes 9 buses at MV Batavia.  Currently, only 711 and 715 run routes from there.  715 runs 3 buses/day while 711 runs anywhere from 1-3 buses depending on time of day.  Seems odd to ultimately have 3 spares there unless either there's a bus in worse shape than realized or something bigger is brewing that requires more buses.  

Or what I’m thinking is they had to replace the tracker and it was set to 2611 but they changed the number to 2745 this week but we’ll see what happens during the month

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

On 2/7/2025 at 5:53 PM, Erin Mishkin Jr. said:

Current 6323s Roster (up to 6391)

West Division: 6324, 6325, 6328, 6330, 6331, 6335 (Overhauled in 2021-2022ish), 6337, 6340, 6341, 6342, 6343, 6346, 6347, 6348, 6352, 6353, 6354, 6355, 6357, 6358, 6359 (Overhaul), 6360 (Overhaul), 6363 (Overhaul), 6364, 6365, 6366, 6368, 6369, 6370, 6372, 6373, 6374 (Broken Trapeze, no-show on map, spotted on 331 the other day), 6376

MIA: 6323(1/17/25), 6326(1/15/25), 6327(10/9/24), 6329(OOS since early 2022), 6332(1/24/25), 6333(OOS since 12/26/2023), 6334( OOS since 7/27/2024), 6336(11/20/24), 6339(OOS since 7/5/2022), 6344(8/1/24), 6345(1/29/25), 6349(OOS since 7/27/2022), 6350(10/8/24), 6351(10/9/24), 6356(11/8/24), 6361(assuming it's OOS date is 9/5/24 if it hasn't shown up as 6370 on the tracker in September), 6362(3/20/24), 6367(unit has been OOS since 2021), 6375(unit has been OOS since 2021)

 

Southwest Division: 6338 and 6371

 

East Dundee 600/603/605/607:    6377, 6379 (Overhaul?), 6382, 6383, 6387, 6391.

Northwest: 6381, 6388.

MIA: 6378(NW, OOS since 11/15/2023), 6380(OOS since 6/30/2022), 6384(OOS since 7/30/2023), 6385(OOS since 11/11/24), 6386(OOS since 7/9/24), 6389(OOS since 11/12/24), 6390(OOS since 4/12/24, returned 1/13-1/14/25 but broke down again),.

 

It is possible that any units that I have bolded that are OOS might have been retired or could be under the process of an overhaul. These buses have hit 12 years of age so it is possible there might be a few at South Holland or maybe at South division, or they could be hiding at their garages. Looking at the 2025 budget, a snapshot from 12/31/2023 says there are 66 in the inventory and the fleet has a total of 68 buses, so it's possible 2 might have been widthrawn.

6386 is active again

[andrethebusman]

1/31/25 Axxess status per Pace

Elgin/Dundee 6386-6387,6486-6491,6493,6495,6498-6503,6505-6509 (6386, 6486-6488,6490,6491,6501-6507,6509 out of service)

North Division 6730-6783 (6740,6748,6753, 6781 out of service)

North Shore Division 6477-6484,6700-6712,6714-6729,6784-6786 (6711,6786 out of service)

Northwest Division 6378,6381,6388,6392-6412,6414-6476,6485,6492,6494,6497,6504, 6510-6512,6514-6521,6560-6574 (6378,6394, 6397,6399,6418,6420,6421,6423,6426,6429, 6430,6432,6434-6438,6442,6443,6445,6454, 6458,6470,6475,6497,6562 out of service, 6574 to be sold)

River Division 6377,6379,6380,6382-6385, 6389-6391 (6377,6379,6389,6383-6385 out of service)

South Division 6367,6375 (out of service)

Southwest Division 6338,6371,6496,6522-6559,6575 (6522,6530,6536,6540,6557,6575 out of service)

West Division 6323-6337,6339-6366,6368-6370,6372-6374,6376 (6327,6329,6334-6336,6339,6345,6347,6349,6356,6359, 6361-6363,6368,6369,6373 out of service)

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

4 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

1/31/25 Axxess status per Pace

Elgin/Dundee 6386-6387,6486-6491,6493,6495,6498-6503,6505-6509 (6386, 6486-6488,6490,6491,6501-6507,6509 out of service)

North Division 6730-6783 (6740,6748,6753, 6781 out of service)

North Shore Division 6477-6484,6700-6712,6714-6729,6784-6786 (6711,6786 out of service)

Northwest Division 6378,6381,6388,6392-6412,6414-6476,6485,6492,6494,6497,6504, 6510-6512,6514-6521,6560-6574 (6378,6394, 6397,6399,6418,6420,6421,6423,6426,6429, 6430,6432,6434-6438,6442,6443,6445,6454, 6458,6470,6475,6497,6562 out of service, 6574 to be sold)

River Division 6377,6379,6380,6382-6385, 6389-6391 (6377,6379,6389,6383-6385 out of service)

South Division 6367,6375 (out of service)

Southwest Division 6338,6371,6496,6522-6559,6575 (6522,6530,6536,6540,6557,6575 out of service)

West Division 6323-6337,6339-6366,6368-6370,6372-6374,6376 (6327,6329,6334-6336,6339,6345,6347,6349,6356,6359, 6361-6363,6368,6369,6373 out of service)

If 6367 and 6375 are at south division are they in the selling or scrap lot (aka they’re retired)?

[andrethebusman]

Listed at South Division out of service, South Holland is a separate category. So apparently stored at Markham, possibly awaiting a trip to an outside shop? Buses awaiting sale are specified as such. Out of service appears to indicate awaiting repair.

[Busjack]

6 hours ago, andrethebusman said:

Listed at South Division out of service, South Holland is a separate category. So apparently stored at Markham, possibly awaiting a trip to an outside shop? Buses awaiting sale are specified as such. Out of service appears to indicate awaiting repair.

Since Pace is vacating South Holland in  the immediate future (training ad customer service have already moved to the South Campus, leaving only Acceptance to move there), I don't think Pace is going to stash anything more out at South Holland.

There was once a separate category for buses stored in the field west of the South garage for disposition, but I guess not now.

If there are 73 buses awaiting repair (my count; I might be off a few), Pace must be short mechanics, or certainly needs the projected 77 hybrid buses. That's like 21% of that fleet.

 

[jtrussel]

What happened to 6574 for it to be sold? Is it scrap or a running working bus. Also any word on the electric busses north division supposed to get? 

[Busjack]

5 minutes ago, jtrussel said:

Also any word on the electric busses north division supposed to get? 

Some time in 2025.

[busfan2847]

5 minutes ago, jtrussel said:

What happened to 6574 for it to be sold? Is it scrap or a running working bus. Also any word on the electric busses north division supposed to get? 

Fire Damage - seen at South Holland 10/14/22

[jtrussel]

That looks repairable from the angle that pic was taken. I guess pace didn't want to put up the expense to fix

[Erin Mishkin Jr.]

Is there plans for 6429 to be repaired?