Zol87 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Does anyone know why the Metra Heritage Corridor line only runs a few trains per day in peak directions during rush hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan2847 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Does anyone know why the Metra Heritage Corridor line only runs a few trains per day in peak directions during rush hours? The simple answer it always has! Historically, since the depression (1930s), there had been only one commuter train each way on this line. This was increased after Metra took over to three trains in each direction with Metra operating the trains but trackage operated by CN. This served the most lightly populated catchment area of any Metra line, however the population is increasing and there is an IDOT survey into increasing Metra service or adding Pace bus service midday to supplement the trains (see ). The line also has/had significant freight traffic which the lines owner (CN) would not like to see affected by additional Metra service and is one of the Amtrak routes out of Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 The simple answer it always has! Historically, since the depression (1930s), there had been only one commuter train each way on this line. This was increased after Metra took over to three trains in each direction with Metra operating the trains but trackage operated by CN. This served the most lightly populated catchment area of any Metra line, however the population is increasing and there is an IDOT survey into increasing Metra service or adding Pace bus service midday to supplement the trains (see ). The line also has/had significant freight traffic which the lines owner (CN) would not like to see affected by additional Metra service and is one of the Amtrak routes out of Chicago. If I am not mistaken, CN also owns tracks on which the Metra North Central Service operates. If so, then you know CN will block any attempt by Metra to increase service on the HC because of the heavy freight use. Which begs the question if a RR can terminate Metra's trackage rights or are they mandated by law to allow usage for commuter purposes. Since agreements with Metra were made usually before the current owners bought these RRs, how long must they honor the original agreements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 If I am not mistaken, CN also owns tracks on which the Metra North Central Service operates. If so, then you know CN will block any attempt by Metra to increase service on the HC because of the heavy freight use. Which begs the question if a RR can terminate Metra's trackage rights or are they mandated by law to allow usage for commuter purposes. Since agreements with Metra were made usually before the current owners bought these RRs, how long must they honor the original agreements? Given such things as NICTD having in its last minutes that they had to renew their agreements with Metra, I suppose for the length of the current agreement. Since Metra invested public money in CN's NCS line and UP's lines, they better be pretty ironclad agreements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 A few things to know here. First, the North Central agreements were made with the Wisconsin Central. The goal was to have 22 trains daily and weekend service on Saturday. Metra paid a boatload of money to improve track, signals, etc. Then the CN bought the WC and the **** hit the fan. Metra was running only 8 trains intially. After the CN took over, they increased that to 20. However, the CN would not allow the 19th back to Chicago from Antioch, so the train was (and is) routed via the Milwaukee North Line from Prairie Crossing. Initially, the trip was an express from Grayslake to Union Station. Metra screwed that up by making the train make stops on the way down now. The CN will flat out not let Metra increase to the 22 trains they wanted, and forget any dream of ever having weekend service of any kind for the same reason. As for the Heritage, that line crosses so many freight lines, adding trains there seems a little foolish. When there is a delay there it is not minor occurance. However, Dan Lipinski has his nose in adding trains here. After he pushed the Englewood Flyover (which I think overstates delays there), who knows if he has enough clout left to get anything done. If the CN (and even the UP, for that matter) is involved, you can bet there will be a fight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busfan2847 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Well it looks like Amtrak is fed up with CN freight delays on the Heritage as well as the IC route to Carbondale! http://tinyurl.com/7o8a3cs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Well it looks like Amtrak is fed up with CN freight delays on the Heritage as well as the IC route to Carbondale! http://tinyurl.com/7o8a3cs Anybody know if a freight railroad is required to let passenger trains operate on their lines ? Amtrak pays X amout to CN for use of the tracks. If the CN were to feel that too many freight delay monetary damages outweighed any money they get from Amtrak (or Metra, for that matter), could they, legally, opt to not allow the passenger trains on their trackage ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artthouwill Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Given such things as NICTD having in its last minutes that they had to renew their agreements with Metra, I suppose for the length of the current agreement. Since Metra invested public money in CN's NCS line and UP's lines, they better be pretty ironclad agreements. So much for CN honoring the agreement Metra made with Wisconsin Central. A few things to know here. First, the North Central agreements were made with the Wisconsin Central. The goal was to have 22 trains daily and weekend service on Saturday. Metra paid a boatload of money to improve track, signals, etc. Then the CN bought the WC and the **** hit the fan. Metra was running only 8 trains intially. After the CN took over, they increased that to 20. However, the CN would not allow the 19th back to Chicago from Antioch, so the train was (and is) routed via the Milwaukee North Line from Prairie Crossing. Initially, the trip was an express from Grayslake to Union Station. Metra screwed that up by making the train make stops on the way down now. The CN will flat out not let Metra increase to the 22 trains they wanted, and forget any dream of ever having weekend service of any kind for the same reason. As for the Heritage, that line crosses so many freight lines, adding trains there seems a little foolish. When there is a delay there it is not minor occurance. However, Dan Lipinski has his nose in adding trains here. After he pushed the Englewood Flyover (which I think overstates delays there), who knows if he has enough clout left to get anything done. If the CN (and even the UP, for that matter) is involved, you can bet there will be a fight. Well it looks like Amtrak is fed up with CN freight delays on the Heritage as well as the IC route to Carbondale! http://tinyurl.com/7o8a3cs None of the freight railroads are interested in passenger traffic which is why all of them dumped passenger service and we wound up with Amtrak. They would probably claim that passenger service causes the delays because their trains have to sit while the Amtraks and the Metras of the world pass through. It is a wonder Metra hasn't taken CN to court to make them honor the agreement to add weekend service to the North Central (if there was an written agreement to begin with). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Anybody know if a freight railroad is required to let passenger trains operate on their lines ? Amtrak pays X amout to CN for use of the tracks. If the CN were to feel that too many freight delay monetary damages outweighed any money they get from Amtrak (or Metra, for that matter), could they, legally, opt to not allow the passenger trains on their trackage ?? Relevant statutes appear to be: 49 USC 24101(a)(4): A greater degree of cooperation is necessary among Amtrak,ther rail carriers, State, regional, and local governments, the private sector, labor organizations, and suppliers of services and equipment to Amtrak to achieve a performance level sufficient to justify expending public money. 42 USC 24308: Amtrak may make an agreement with a rail carrier or regional transportation authority to use its facilities, and if the parties do not agree, the Surface Transportation Board shall order that the facilities be made available to Amtrak. Amtrak may also apply for orders if the carrier does not allow accelerated speeds or additional trains. [Reenforcing what Durbin said:] ( c ) Preference Over Freight Transportation. - Except in an emergency, intercity and commuter rail passenger transportation provided by or for Amtrak has preference over freight transportation in using a rail line, junction, or crossing unless the Board orders otherwise under this subsection. ... (f) Passenger Train Performance and Other Standards. - (1) Investigation of substandard performance. - If the on-time performance of any intercity passenger train averages less than 80 percent for any 2 consecutive calendar quarters, or the service quality of intercity passenger train operations for which minimum standards ... fails to meet those standards for 2 consecutive calendar quarters, the Surface Transportation Board ... may initiate an investigation, or upon the filing of a complaint by Amtrak... the Board shall initiate such an investigation, to determine whether and to what extent delays or failure to achieve minimum standards are due to causes that could reasonably be addressed by a rail carrier over whose tracks the intercity passenger train operates or reasonably addressed by Amtrak or other intercity passenger rail operators. As part of its investigation, the Board has authority to review the accuracy of the train performance data and the extent to which scheduling and congestion contribute to delays. In making its determination or carrying out such an investigation, the Board shall obtain information from all parties involved and identify reasonable measures and make recommendations to improve the service, quality, and on-time performance of the train. (2) Problems caused by host rail carrier. - If the Board determines that delays or failures to achieve minimum standards investigated under paragraph (1) are attributable to a rail carrier's failure to provide preference to Amtrak over freight transportation as required under subsection ( c ), the Board may award damages against the host rail carrier, including prescribing such other relief to Amtrak as it determines to be reasonable and appropriate pursuant to paragraph (3) of this subsection. So, it looks like Amtrak was acting (as described in the Tribune) within its rights, and while trackage rights are a contract, CN couldn't just throw Amtrak off its property without answering to the STB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 It is a wonder Metra hasn't taken CN to court to make them honor the agreement to add weekend service to the North Central (if there was an written agreement to begin with). Although Metra isn't under the Amtrak Act, the Surface Transportation Board has jurisdiction over the CN, so I suppose that any complaint would have to be taken there, not to court. Also, Metra gave the impression that when the guy from Buffalo Grove was complaining about this, that the 22 trains a day was aspirational I also suppose that you haven't seen the agreements, and hence are not in a position to make comments about the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman8119 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 So, it looks like Amtrak was acting (as described in the Tribune) within its rights, and while trackage rights are a contract, CN couldn't just throw Amtrak off its property without answering to the STB. Thanks, Jack. I thought that would be the case, just wasn't sure. I knew I could count on you straightening that out !! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pace831 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 New earlier afternoon train coming to HC If this was mentioned in the budget, I must have missed it. New train leaves Union Station at 2:45 and gets to Joliet at 3:50. Probably the equipment will then deadhead back downtown to become train #921 leaving at 6:12 PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west towns Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Can you ride the trip back to downtown from joliet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pace831 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 On 3/10/2016 at 9:09 PM, west towns said: Can you ride the trip back to downtown from joliet? It would be listed on the schedule if you could. They probably figure it's better to get the equipment back downtown as fast as possible. The CN doesn't want Metra blocking its tracks any more than it has to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garmon757 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Pace831 said: It would be listed on the schedule if you could. They probably figure it's better to get back downtown as fast as possible. The CN doesn't want Metra blocking its tracks any more than it has to be. I f'ing hate that railroad company, especially after that poor lady was killed near University Park because of faulty RR signals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2200SeriesFan Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 On 3/10/2016 at 9:09 PM, west towns said: Can you ride the trip back to downtown from joliet? Yes you can ride back east and northbound on the Rock Island line, once you ride out to Joliet on the Heritage Line. If you decide to do such a trip, I'd recommend getting to Joliet no later than 6:27pm(train #919), so you don't have to wait a long time to board a Rock Island train back to Chicago from Joliet. Which you'd have to do, if you rode into Joliet at 7:14pm(train #921), then have to wait till 9:30pm(train #530) on the Rock Island line to return back to Chicago. But the transfer between Heritage Corridor and Rock Island is pretty easy to do if you arrive in Joliet at 5:52pm(Heritage train #917, then take RI train #526 leaving at 6:15pm), and also Heritage into Joliet at 6:27pm(Heritage train #919, then take RI train #528 leaving at 7:10pm). The Rock Island Metra platform is one block south from the shared Heritage Corridor and Amtrak platform, in Joliet. Like you may've heard(and in case you didn't know), both Rock Island and Heritage/Amtrak NO LONGER stop at Joliet Union Station and have separate boarding platforms now, since whatever freight railroad that controls both of those lines whined about delays to their freight trains, thanks to arriving and leaving Rock Island Metra trains in Joliet(lol). Anyway, you'd just walk one block south from the Heritage/Amtrak platform to the Rock Island platform, then board the train there back to Chicago. I'm glad they did add a 2:45pm(train #915) outbound train in the afternoon, since previously riding on the Metra Heritage Corridor to intermediate Metra stops was only easily possible on days running an earlier 'quit schedule'. On the Heritage Corridor, this'd usually mean the first outbound train at 4:50pm(train #917) would leave an hour or 2 hours earlier, depending on what 'quit schedule' day you rode Heritage on. And 'quit schedule' days are primarily only done on days just before a major holiday(i.e. Christmas Eve, New Year's Eve). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pace831 Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 1 hour ago, 2200SeriesFan said: On the Heritage Corridor, this'd usually mean the first outbound train at 4:50pm(train #917) would leave an hour or 2 hours earlier, depending on what 'quit schedule' day you rode Heritage on. The previous pattern was to cancel the last outbound train (#921 - 6:12 PM) and use the equipment for an early quit extra. I believe it usually departed during the 3:00 hour. The HC schedule wasn't modified on the most recent early quit day, probably because the new 2:45 PM train makes it unnecessary to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2200SeriesFan Posted September 9, 2016 Report Share Posted September 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, Pace831 said: The previous pattern was to cancel the last outbound train (#921 - 6:12 PM) and use the equipment for an early quit extra. I believe it usually departed during the 3:00 hour. The HC schedule wasn't modified on the most recent early quit day, probably because the new 2:45 PM train makes it unnecessary to do so. Oh yeah, that's what it was! I got it mixed up, you're right that it was #921 at 6:12 that was cancelled, and not #917 at 4:50. And yes, the earlier quit train on those quit schedule days would leave Chicago Union Station at 3pm for the most part, though I know on of those special schedule days I saw that earlier quit train scheduled to leave CUS at 2pm instead of 3pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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