CTA Service Adjustments

[jajuan]

Good search.

If you remember back to about 2008, Beale had to make a big stink just to get the project approved once it was revealed that it would include a Walmart. So he knew how to make a stink about the bus. While the TIF report indicates how everybody was on board that this was a good thing, that certainly wasn't the case prior to it.

First, as the TIF report points out, the development isn't just Walmart. Second, if that's the philosophy, why are 111 and 115 going into Target? For that matter, why are there CTA buses on private property at Lincolnwood Town Center (totally out of its territory, too), Ford City, etc.?

Both Walmarts in Niles are served by the Niles Free Bus. I don't know if Walmart pays any more for that, or more than did K-Mart or Venture when it was there, or more than does Meijer on the same route.

Finally you have the combination of Emanuel having to keep his south side base intact, doing something about his food desert promise (although I think the food desert is bogus), and, as discussed earlier, Pewar having no clout.

Now, if someone is going to extend the contract bus concept as Mel suggested, they better do it across the board. But, as was the situation at Yorktown, people are going to scream to high heaven if bus stops are removed from shopping centers.

I agree with all your points except the food desert being bogus especially when looking at the south side and the distance folks travel on average by bus just get to an actual grocery store with fresh produce and not a mom & pop shop turned liquor store. But it's not transit related that's as far as I'll go on that. Getting back on topic though, in response to how successful Bushunter thinks the 111A will be, it's already been established that that route is only temporary until CTA works out a schedule that reroutes 106, 111 (both mentioned in the Trib as being on the drawing board for reroutes to the shopping complex before decided the 111A to satisfy Beale until a permanent answer is drawn up), and/or maybe the 115.

[Busjack]

I agree with all your points except the food desert being bogus ...

As you said, this isn't transit, but to put it simply, there usually is supply where there is demand, and there isn't a food desert in Mexican neighborhoods, where people eat produce.

I think we went over this with the boy on the Fresh Moves bus that wouldn't eat the apple. I also wonder how many people are going to ride the bus to shop at Whole Paycheck Market at 63rd and Halsted, but the mention of that was why I brought it up with respect to Walmart, in that both were Emanuel initiatives supposedly to attack that problem (edit: at least to the extent he promised that a certain number of stores would open).

[jajuan]

As you said, this isn't transit, but to put it simply, there usually is supply where there is demand, and there isn't a food desert in Mexican neighborhoods, where people eat produce.

I think we went over this with the boy on the Fresh Moves bus that wouldn't eat the apple. I also wonder how many people are going to ride the bus to shop at Whole Paycheck Market at 63rd and Halsted, but the mention of that was why I brought it up with respect to Walmart, in that both were Emanuel initiatives supposedly to attack that problem (edit: at least to the extent he promised that a certain number of stores would open).

Again expanding outside of white, black, Spanish speaking, Polish, blue, green, or orange with purple polka dots in terms of culture and ethnicity, and looking beyond simplistic supply and demand assumptions alone(I'm not saying supply and demand plays no role) and looking at how far is a resident of neighborhood A traveling to get to a grocery store compared one of neighborhood B on average and yes you do have food deserts in terms of how far folks are traveling.

[Busjack]

Returning to another Crowd Reduction point, there is a CTA Press Release that Metra will be paying the full subsidy on 128. However, I don't recall that being on the original list (not on the list in the materials Kevin cited here).

[jajuan]

Returning to another Crowd Reduction point, there is a CTA Press Release that Metra will be paying the full subsidy on 128. However, I don't recall that being on the original list (not on the list in the materials Kevin cited here).

It wasn't so I wonder how it even went into any renegotiation. What's surprising to me anyway is that Soldier Field had no part of subsidizing the route and even more surprising is that they got Metra to pay full freight given how the transit boards have been working hard at not cooperating with each other.

[Busjack]

It wasn't so I wonder how it even went into any renegotiation. What's surprising to me anyway is that Soldier Field had no part of subsidizing the route and even more surprising is that they got Metra to pay full freight given how the transit boards have been working hard at not cooperating with each other.

"Soldier Field" is an ambiguity, in that either it would be the Park District or the Bears. However, one would have to wonder how many of the Bears patrons used Metra/128, so as to provide any incentive to the cheap McCaskey family. Can't tailgate on the train.*

Edit: But since you mention this, are the Wirtz and Reinsdorf partnerships paying for #19?

_____

*Which, to go completely off the track reminds me of the State Farm commercial with Da Super Fans, who are o.k with Aaron Rogers, because the Discount Double Check got them into Griller Class on the airplane.

[BUSANGEL#1]

And that's where the error lies. They should have never promised a bus route to Wal Mart in the first place. Wal mart is one of the biggest corporations with deep pockets itself. Wal mart could have easily ran it's own free shuttle bus, they have one that serves the west side. Cta should not be in the business of whether Wal Mart succeeds or not. If that's the case what about 83rd/Stewert. Isn't that Wal Mart in a transit desert also.

The way the shuttle is set up it's bare bones, without extending it to 95th/dan ryan I don't see much success with that. Who is going to wait for two to three buses just to go to Wal Mart. Wal marts in the city are not so unique anymore. There's at least four supercenters and many marketplace express stores.

The Chatham Market Walmart/Shopping Center has service via the 24 to

87th/Racine. It was rerouted from Vincenns to Holland Road immediately

after the Walmart opened, because Alderman Brookins had a connection with

Chairman Terry Peterson. As a result it was done quietly with no big

dramatic show in the media. There were barely any customer notices about

it, bus stops just appeared overnight.

[BUSANGEL#1]

I agree with all your points except the food desert being bogus especially when looking at the south side and the distance folks travel on average by bus just get to an actual grocery store with fresh produce and not a mom & pop shop turned liquor store. But it's not transit related that's as far as I'll go on that. Getting back on topic though, in response to how successful Bushunter thinks the 111A will be, it's already been established that that route is only temporary until CTA works out a schedule that reroutes 106, 111 (both mentioned in the Trib as being on the drawing board for reroutes to the shopping complex before decided the 111A to satisfy Beale until a permanent answer is drawn up), and/or maybe the 115.

CTA's plans to reroute the 115 and a north-south crosstown key route, either 15 or 28 to end at Pullman Park. Originally the plan was 106/111 (especially the 106 since it could use a ridership boost and traffic generator besides Corliss High School and Olive-Harvey), but the actual routing extension wasn't feasible especially with the 106 already going into Olive-Harvey and the garage.

[Busjack]

The Chatham Market Walmart/Shopping Center has service via the 24 to

87th/Racine. It was rerouted from Vincenns to Holland Road immediately

after the Walmart opened, because Alderman Brookins had a connection with

Chairman Terry Peterson. As a result it was done quietly with no big

dramatic show in the media. There were barely any customer notices about

it, bus stops just appeared overnight.

You are sure correct that this flew under the radar. Other than the map on the schedule brochure including Holland Road, there is nothing there to indicate Walmart or any other shopping center.

I remember about 3 years ago debating with someone on chicagonow.com who claimed that Walmart was not transit friendly, to which I replied about the Niles Free Bus and that CTA could reroute there if it wanted to, although 83rd was not close to any particular route. Apparently they took care of it by extending 24, although that's only weekdays and not midday.

[mkohut]

CTA's plans to reroute the 115 and a north-south crosstown key route, either 15 or 28 to end at Pullman Park. Originally the plan was 106/111 (especially the 106 since it could use a ridership boost and traffic generator besides Corliss High School and Olive-Harvey), but the actual routing extension wasn't feasible especially with the 106 already going into Olive-Harvey and the garage.

Where the source?

[jajuan]

"Soldier Field" is an ambiguity, in that either it would be the Park District or the Bears. However, one would have to wonder how many of the Bears patrons used Metra/128, so as to provide any incentive to the cheap McCaskey family. Can't tailgate on the train.*

Edit: But since you mention this, are the Wirtz and Reinsdorf partnerships paying for #19?

_____

*Which, to go completely off the track reminds me of the State Farm commercial with Da Super Fans, who are o.k with Aaron Rogers, because the Discount Double Check got them into Griller Class on the airplane.

I wouldn't know as I don't follow these folks' finances and never made claims to know everything. Part of the reason we all come here is to learn new things from each other, am I right?

Where the source?

Careful here. I made that same mistake when he and I believe one other person gave a heads up about the rerouting of the 48 to its current form and that turned out to prove true.

[Busjack]

I wouldn't know as I don't follow these folks' finances and never made claims to know everything. Part of the reason we all come here is to learn new things from each other, am I right?...

The question was rhetorical (or nearly so).

[trainman8119]

"Soldier Field" is an ambiguity, in that either it would be the Park District or the Bears. However, one would have to wonder how many of the Bears patrons used Metra/128, so as to provide any incentive to the cheap McCaskey family. Can't tailgate on the train.*

Edit: But since you mention this, are the Wirtz and Reinsdorf partnerships paying for #19?

_____

*Which, to go completely off the track reminds me of the State Farm commercial with Da Super Fans, who are o.k with Aaron Rogers, because the Discount Double Check got them into Griller Class on the airplane.

Uh, do the Cubs pay for the 154 ?

[mkohut]

Uh, do the Cubs pay for the 154 ?

The Cubs pay 75 dollars a hour for the service.

[Busjack]

The Cubs pay 75 dollars a hour for the service.

• What's your source?
• If so, it is still $33/hour less than what the Board Minutes reflect they charge the U of C (or at least sought from them).

[mkohut]

• What's your source?
• If so, it is still $33/hour less than what the Board Minutes reflect they charge the U of C (or at least sought from them).

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?Archive=y&ArticleId=1138

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/ordinances/010-039Cubs.pdf

With the amount the Bus Drivers make alone doesn't cover the expenses

[Busjack]

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?Archive=y&ArticleId=1138

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/ordinances/010-039Cubs.pdf

With the amount the Bus Drivers make alone doesn't cover the expenses

Thanks.

The Salary spreadsheet indicates that most bus operators make $30.77/hour although you have to add benefits to that, but I doubt that it gets to $75/hour. Some are only getting $15.39 or $20.00. Also, I suppose the number jumps if some are working overtime.

BTW, I see that Claypool got a raise to $205,501.88.

[mkohut]

Thanks.

The Salary spreadsheet indicates that most bus operators make $30.77/hour although you have to add benefits to that, but I doubt that it gets to $75/hour. Some are only getting $15.39 or $20.00. Also, I suppose the number jumps if some are working overtime.

BTW, I see that Claypool got a raise to $205,501.88.

I was using the 75 an hour to the amount of buses being use for the the route.

[Busjack]

I was using the 75 an hour to the amount of buses being use for the the route.

As the ordinance dealing with the U of C points out, it is service hours. If anything like platform hours during the streetcar days, it means when an operator is actually in the driver's seat. So, if there are 4 buses on the route, it is 4 times as much, assuming that they can complete the route in an hour.

However, the 154 ordinance did not so specifically state.

[mkohut]

I wouldn't know as I don't follow these folks' finances and never made claims to know everything. Part of the reason we all come here is to learn new things from each other, am I right?

Careful here. I made that same mistake when he and I believe one other person gave a heads up about the rerouting of the 48 to its current form and that turned out to prove true.

Its a simple question.Was he at The Board Meeting today and they were talking about it.

[jajuan]

Its a simple question.Was he at The Board Meeting today and they were talking about it.

No I meant I've observed some on here apparently have inside info that wouldn't always necessitate being at a board meeting.

[artthouwill]

A few thoughts:

While some think that it will take the reopening of the Red Line to 95th to spur bus traffic to Wal-Mart at 109th/Doty, I disagree. I think simply extending routes like 15, 28, and 106 to the Wal-Mart will help tremendously. When the Red Line does reopen, I would return the 111 to the 111th/115th east west loop routes they once were (before being combined with 104 Pullman) and I would operate a King Drive/Cottage Grove loop route that also serves the Wal-Mart. Is CTA responsible for generating traffic for Wal-Mart? No, but CTA IS responsible to serve its riders, and if it can generate a moderate to generous amout of ridership by serving that Wal-Mart, then it should. I could even see Pace serving the Wal-Mart with the 353 simply by routing the bus via Doty instead of the Bishop Ford..

I won't rehash the statements I made of the Fresh Moves thread concerning food deserts per se. I will however state that putting a Whole Food at 63rd and Halsted is a sign that gentrification is coming to Englewood in the near future. One only has to look where the current Whole Food stores are to see that they wouldn't move there unless there was significant money to be made. The color that matters most here is green, and those that don't have it will be seeing red or feeling blue.

This Wal-Mart may be too little too late. While it is supposed to be a tax generator, that Wal-Mart in Hammond siphons a lot of Illinois traffic, mostly from Chicago, which still is a tax happy town. Couple the high taxes with cheaper gas, cheaper cigarettes, cheaper booze, and that city Wal-Mart may be dependent on CTA traffic and Salem Baptist Church for survival.

As for Metra paying for the 128, the Bears games are huge generators of riders for Metra. The 8:20 from Aurora on BNSF is crush loaded on Sundays by the time it gets to Union Station, That doesn't include traffic from the MD lines at Union nor does that include the UP lines at Oglivie. Metra riders NEED that connection, so subsidizing the 128 would be no big deal if it helps keep its trains full on some Sundays during football season.

[mkohut]

Thanks.

The Salary spreadsheet indicates that most bus operators make $30.77/hour although you have to add benefits to that, but I doubt that it gets to $75/hour. Some are only getting $15.39 or $20.00. Also, I suppose the number jumps if some are working overtime.

BTW, I see that Claypool got a raise to $205,501.88.

Thanks for the salary infor. I all ready felt Claypool was overpay at 190,000.Even if he got canned today.I think he would get a pension from the CTA,Park District,and Cook Country.

[jajuan]

A few thoughts:

While some think that it will take the reopening of the Red Line to 95th to spur bus traffic to Wal-Mart at 109th/Doty, I disagree. I think simply extending routes like 15, 28, and 106 to the Wal-Mart will help tremendously. When the Red Line does reopen, I would return the 111 to the 111th/115th east west loop routes they once were (before being combined with 104 Pullman) and I would operate a King Drive/Cottage Grove loop route that also serves the Wal-Mart. Is CTA responsible for generating traffic for Wal-Mart? No, but CTA IS responsible to serve its riders, and if it can generate a moderate to generous amout of ridership by serving that Wal-Mart, then it should. I could even see Pace serving the Wal-Mart with the 353 simply by routing the bus via Doty instead of the Bishop Ford..

This Wal-Mart may be too little too late. While it is supposed to be a tax generator, that Wal-Mart in Hammond siphons a lot of Illinois traffic, mostly from Chicago, which still is a tax happy town. Couple the high taxes with cheaper gas, cheaper cigarettes, cheaper booze, and that city Wal-Mart may be dependent on CTA traffic and Salem Baptist Church for survival.

It shouldn't take the 111 being configured into that odd two way loop from decades ago just to serve Pullman Park as CTA signed an agreement to do. The 54B pulling into the Midway station terminal, and the present day normal routing of the east-west south side routes on streets that don't have their own station at the Dan Ryan Red Line are several examples of routes that operate on relatively straighter lines and divert a few blocks off the main route to serve a location. There is no need for operating routes in two way loops to accomplish it. And the Walmart isn't necessarily too late if it can successfully break through the in some ways misguided psychology that NW Indiana is such a big money saver over NE Illinois as that money perceived to be saved is still going into gas burned to drive into Hammond, East Chicago, etc. in search of those cheaper items. And given how gas prices have been spiking everywhere, gas savings in NW Indiana at the present time may be miniscule at best.

On your point of the 353, Pace isn't on the hook for serving Pullman Park like CTA is. And it's not really in the business of servicing too many locations within the city limits outside of connecting with CTA rail service and/or relevant CTA bus routes that go deep into the city.

[Busjack]

...

On your point of the 353, Pace isn't on the hook for serving Pullman Park like CTA is. And it's not really in the business of servicing too many locations within the city limits outside of connecting with CTA rail service and/or relevant CTA bus routes that go deep into the city.

On that point, those who live near 353 can use the Walmart on Halsted in Glenwood.They can also use the one at I-80/94 and Torrence Ave., and based on that location, probably drive there. Or drive 2 miles east and go to the one on 165th St. in Hammond.