sw4400 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 It appears that the only comparable one was the 5800s, as they went offsite for new engines. That involved maybe 62 buses out of a fleet of 2000. Here, they are talking 1030 out of 1750. But one can be fairly sure that it won't be at once, especially since the buses of the last couple of options haven't hit midlife yet. The info says 6 buses/time will be rehabbed, so I guess the work takes a while to complete, otherwise I would guess they would have 30 or more out of service at a time to speed up the rehab so the buses could be back on the streets sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 The info says 6 buses/time will be rehabbed, so I guess the work takes a while to complete, otherwise I would guess they would have 30 or more out of service at a time to speed up the rehab so the buses could be back on the streets sooner. They should have around 30-40 buses missing at a time. Enough to fill a repair/rebuild facilities garage. No word yet on whether all buses will be changed to longitudinal seating like the #1930's and up. But the CTA could use all the #1000's in that design. (I bet the #4300's are longitudinal) Haven't seen too many seniors ride the bus lately. with the difficulties getting on and off, I can't blame them. As much as I'm not a fan of that, it does make boarding easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 They should have around 30-40 buses missing at a time. Enough to fill a repair/rebuild facilities garage. No word yet on whether all buses will be changed to longitudinal seating like the #1930's and up. But the CTA could use all the #1000's in that design. (I bet the #4300's are longitudinal) Haven't seen too many seniors ride the bus lately. with the difficulties getting on and off, I can't blame them. As much as I'm not a fan of that, it does make boarding easier. And with the Dan Ryan project going on next year also how do you propose maintaining not only regular service as defined come December 16th of this year but also the Dan Ryan shuttles AND beefed up bus service on south side bus routes including the ones that directly service the Red Line with 30-40 buses gone at a time? That is a stretch my friend. As for the longitudinal seating, they already pissed people off with the 'De-Crowding' plan coming next month and the longitudinal seating on the 5000 rail cars. You think they want to do even more to give themselves a further black eye with the public? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 The info says 6 buses/time will be rehabbed, so I guess the work takes a while to complete, otherwise I would guess they would have 30 or more out of service at a time to speed up the rehab so the buses could be back on the streets sooner. The CBS2 news link says that it will be 6 buses per week will be rebuilt to be exact. So it sounds like it takes a week to rebuild the buses pulled and we now have a time frame. Based on that rate then it would take approximately 3 years and 3 months to complete all the rebuilds of all 1029 buses set for rehab if they kept at that pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcmetro Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Why is 1005 not deserving of a rehab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Why is 1005 not deserving of a rehab? As Kevin pointed out (and the award affirms) it was the prototype for the rehabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 The CBS2 news link says that it will be 6 buses per week will be rebuilt to be exact. So it sounds like it takes a week to rebuild the buses pulled and we now have a time frame. Based on that rate then it would take approximately 3 years and 3 months to complete all the rebuilds of all 1029 buses set for rehab if they kept at that pace. That sounds nice, if it happens. I personally don't see that timeframe happening. It took them 5 years to rehab the #4400's and several years to rehab the #6000's, in fact they were being retired/stored just months after the last of the rehabs. This is what I see happening with the #1000 buses. Things don't always go as planned. If you look at the #5000's delivery, they have only received 70 cars in 7 months. That's 10 cars a month, not the car a day posted in the press release. As far as what will the Dan Ryan do without buses, CTA doesn't seem concerned by that if what pace2322 says is correct, that they want to retire Novas right away from the 100 artics coming in. I'm starting to wonder if all they'll get by beefed up service is 60 foot artics instead of 40 foot standard buses. We shall see my friend!! <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam92 Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 The release says the rehab will be done at local facilities. That may mean the garages themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) That sounds nice, if it happens. I personally don't see that timeframe happening. It took them 5 years to rehab the #4400's and several years to rehab the #6000's, in fact they were being retired/stored just months after the last of the rehabs. This is what I see happening with the #1000 buses. Things don't always go as planned. If you look at the #5000's delivery, they have only received 70 cars in 7 months. That's 10 cars a month, not the car a day posted in the press release. As far as what will the Dan Ryan do without buses, CTA doesn't seem concerned by that if what pace2322 says is correct, that they want to retire Novas right away from the 100 artics coming in. I'm starting to wonder if all they'll get by beefed up service is 60 foot artics instead of 40 foot standard buses. We shall see my friend!! Which is why I said IF they kept at that pace. I know things don't go as planned. Obviously that could stretch out further. As far as what pace2322 mentioned about Chicago getting artics and the likelihood that they are going to need artics on those shuttle routes, there's no reason that both can't happen. Who's to say that Chicago can't get artics for a short while leading up to the Dan Ryan reconstruction project and then have artics on hand reassigned so some are available to help on the shuttles during the project and then get spread back out among artic capable garages? The project doesn't start till May. The buses have started to arrive now. There's no way those shuttles work without having a significant number of buses available to cover them and 40 foot buses won't cut it since under your thinking with artics doing the beefed up south side regular bus routes instead of 40 foot buses would only leave 40 foot buses available for the shuttles since it's already agreed the up to 425 after the 100 artics won't likely be available to arrive until some time after the Dan Ryan project is complete. Edited November 19, 2012 by jajuan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 It might just be something we're not seeing. The next order of artics/40 footers in the pipeline, I thought were scheduled for a summer delivery. Maybe they are retiring buses now because they plan on having those buses for the Ryan. That still sounds like a close shave, (I wouldn't rely on that) but CTA is doing the exact same thing with the Jeffery Jump. Buses are arriving for the service after it has already started. I wonder why they just didn't delay it for 30 days, but maybe they didn't want to mess with winter for a startup date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 It might just be something we're not seeing. The next order of artics/40 footers in the pipeline, I thought were scheduled for a summer delivery. Maybe they are retiring buses now because they plan on having those buses for the Ryan. That still sounds like a close shave, (I wouldn't rely on that) but CTA is doing the exact same thing with the Jeffery Jump. Buses are arriving for the service after it has already started. I wonder why they just didn't delay it for 30 days, but maybe they didn't want to mess with winter for a startup date. It was mentioned earlier that the Q&A in the addendum included "is the Notice to Proceed going to be in Feb. 2013" to which the answer was "we need to evaluate the bids." The 100 buses may be due for delivery by summer, but the way the above sounded, unless the winner has a very open order book, you probably won't see the next order until at least 2014, and I would guess somewhat into 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Look what's coming back during this rehab!!!!! I mean seriously, gridchicago editors... if you must use a picture of Kevin's, why not one of the New Flyers that is going to get rehabbed, like this one??? You dashed all my hopes of seeing TMC's again now!!! j/k!!! I know they're all scrap now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Why is 1005 not deserving of a rehab? You know how when a group of art students paint a image of a model human? Well, 1005 is the "model" here for the personnel rebuilding the New Flyers from the frame up. 1005 will most likely be the last bus to get the rehab after all other buses are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 You know how when a group of art students paint a image of a model human? Well, 1005 is the "model" here for the personnel rebuilding the New Flyers from the frame up. 1005 will most likely be the last bus to get the rehab after all other buses are done. Somehow, that doesn't sound consistent with the definition of prototype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Somehow, that doesn't sound consistent with the definition of prototype. Right. Prototype means it should be the FIRST bus rebuilt. Not the last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 The release says the rehab will be done at local facilities. That may mean the garages themselves If you want to take anything oracular to support your position, this from the Press Release: Additionally, the contracts call for new and existing personnel at CTA's South Shops heavy maintenance facility to handle components of the overhauls, including body repair and repainting and the installation of new energy-efficient LED lighting. Update: Also Cummins N Power (which has the bulk of the contract except apparently not the last 400), is not Cummins itself, and has a facility in Hodgkins and a small one in the McKinley Park part of Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Right. Prototype means it should be the FIRST bus rebuilt. Not the last. Although it may be the first rebuilt, it may be held in as an example as to what they want the rest of the fleet to look like. At the same time they can test the changes to make sure all is Ok before they release the bus. Wouldn't want to rebuild the rest of the buses and say "aw darn we goofed". So in a sense it is a prototype, or an example/sample of the finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Although it may be the first rebuilt, it may be held in as an example as to what they want the rest of the fleet to look like. At the same time they can test the changes to make sure all is Ok before they release the bus. Wouldn't want to rebuild the rest of the buses and say "aw darn we goofed". So in a sense it is a prototype, or an example/sample of the finished product. The question is that, since I saw it on the road last week, whether it has already been rehabbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BusHunter Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 The question is that, since I saw it on the road last week, whether it has already been rehabbed. With the project starting next spring, probably not. It is funny though you did see the bus. Maybe the bus has just been repaired and sent out. Did it look rehabbed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Right. Prototype means it should be the FIRST bus rebuilt. Not the last. Except in this case, the rebuilding crew needed a bus to probably take video/photos of the interior and exterior of #1005 so they know where components and pieces are at so they can quickly rebuild it again(remember, all the New Flyers are getting a "gut rehab" from the frame up, so that means they have to start from the frame and know where exactly all the parts, wires, etc... go back to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 With the project starting next spring, probably not. It is funny though you did see the bus. Maybe the bus has just been repaired and sent out. Did it look rehabbed? I don't think any bus has yet been rehabbed, BusHunter. With the holiday season beginning now, the rebuild project will most likely start early 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 With the project starting next spring, probably not. It is funny though you did see the bus. Maybe the bus has just been repaired and sent out. Did it look rehabbed? Again, no indication that the prototype was not done, including before the specs were sent out. No sense sending out a spec that can't be done. Basically, it looked like a bus. It sounded kind of loud, but most Cummins do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sw4400 Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 But you don't have the answer to 1005 that I raised. Well, since you won't believe my word based on the articles I read, here's from the horses' mouth... the CTA And the clip from linked article right here on this thread... "Starting in spring 2013, the Chicago Transit Authority will begin a ground-breaking initiative to rebuild 60 percent of its bus fleet – the largest bus overhaul project the agency has ever undertaken. The $185 million project is akin to a “gut rehab,” creating almost-new buses while generating the equivalent of more than 200 good-paying jobs." So let me ask you the same question you asked, and see if you can give an answer based on the info put in front of you here and in the link... "The question is that, since I saw it on the road last week, whether it has already been rehabbed." Do you think 1005 has been rehabbed now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busjack Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 Well, since you won't believe my word based on the articles I read, here's from the horses' mouth... the CTA And the clip from linked article right here on this thread... "Starting in spring 2013, the Chicago Transit Authority will begin a ground-breaking initiative to rebuild 60 percent of its bus fleet – the largest bus overhaul project the agency has ever undertaken. The $185 million project is akin to a "gut rehab," creating almost-new buses while generating the equivalent of more than 200 good-paying jobs." So let me ask you the same question you asked, and see if you can give an answer based on the info put in front of you here and in the link... "The question is that, since I saw it on the road last week, whether it has already been rehabbed." Do you think 1005 has been rehabbed now? Read my last post above. Yes, especially since it was excluded from the contract award, according to the Finance Committee agenda. Furnish all labor and materials necessary to perform “turnkey” overhaul of up to four hundred and twenty-nine (429) 1000-series 40-ft New Flyer buses, bus numbers 1000-1429, excluding bus 1005. I take it that we have nobody here who works in the shops, which would be the only way to settle this. We know that you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajuan Posted November 20, 2012 Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 Read my last post above. Yes, especially since it was excluded from the contract award, according to the Finance Committee agenda. I take it that we have nobody here who works in the shops, which would be the only way to settle this. We know that you don't. Valid point made. It's established that 1005 is not included in the award given for the rebuilds and is established in the press release to be the prototype for those rebuilds, so who's to say that it hasn't been rehabbed yet or won't be very soon. They're also using some CTA personnel in the rehab project so I don't see how the holiday issue applies that much when CTA is a 24 hour, 7 day per week operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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