Pace responds to CTA's "Crowd Reduction Plan"

[mkohut]

The Jeffery Jump terminal (103rd St. and Stony Island Garage terminal) sure looks close enough to the new Pace 353 Route that a stop could be placed there for 353, say for about 5 months starting in Spring of 2013. Might even take slight pressure off the 95th/Dan Ryan terminal's bus-to-bus transfers during that period.

Read Busjack post above you.That being say how is 353 going to take pressure off the 95th station when it runs every half hour.

[Busjack]

Read Busjack post above you.That being say how is 353 going to take pressure off the 95th station when it runs every half hour.

His point was that it takes pressure off 95th by dumping most of the passengers off at 103rd (pressure being defined as passengers, not buses). Apparently though, unless the passengers fill out the survey requesting that, it doesn't look like 353 will.

Update: That gets reappraised here.

[2200SeriesFan]

I wonder how a reroute of the 209 would work, to facilitate displaced 64 riders(with perhaps the Canfield-Foster-Harlem-Harlem terminal suggestion being the likely way they'd be rerouted southeast of Canfield/Higgins? I'm surprised Pace is considering doing that, since I thought CTA was gonna come up with some sort of way to help displaced 64 and 69 bus riders. I think I supposedly heard the 81W would get some sort of reroute, to help displaced 69 bus riders? Not that much would be needed to help them, since I had the impression both routes(though I never rode either) had pretty low ridership.

Part of me wishes the 56A weekday rush hour branch on Devon(between Milwaukee and Avondale) would be picked up by the 86 bus during weekday rush hour, since now it's north terminal was moved to Milwaukee/Imlay a few years back when 91 Nagle branch service was eliminated(save for Taft HS runs). I liked having that 56A branch on Devon during rush hour, since once in a while I have used it after having to go to that Harlem/Devon/NW Hwy/Avondale area. My suspicion is that probably nothing will be done in the end, due to the fact that the few times I did ride that branch of the 56A, I saw very few riders. And that in the end, 68 is still an option for displaced 56A Devon branch riders.

I wish in general that Devon had bus service west of Devon/Kedzie(even if that meant a different bus route with less frequency were to be created west of Kedzie). I'm sure since due to the fact Pace long ago eliminated 211 service, it was another one of those low ridership situations where it'll never be resurrected. And of course, I've always noticed 210(from the infrequent times I use it) seems to have lower ridership than a lot of other north suburban routes(and evidenced by the fact they eliminated express service between Lincoln/McCormick to Bryn Mawr, and service south of there to Western Brown Line before that when Pace did their major round of restructuring north suburban service in the mid-2000s, i.e. 423 now running to The Glen shopping center/redevelopment, 254 being eliminated for good on Saturdays(gosh I remember the one time I ever rode that bus north to Old Orchard, I was THE ONLY person riding that bus all the way up to Old Orchard from somewhere like Touhy. and I suspect that probably had even less ridership than 210), etc.).

[Busjack]

I wonder how a reroute of the 209 would work, to facilitate displaced 64 riders(with perhaps the Canfield-Foster-Harlem-Harlem terminal suggestion being the likely way they'd be rerouted southeast of Canfield/Higgins? I'm surprised Pace is considering doing that....

The current notice is

"There will be no change to weekday or Saturday service on Route 209."

So, I don't know where you are getting the above.

[mkohut]

The current notice is

"There will be no change to weekday or Saturday service on Route 209."

So, I don't know where you are getting the above.

I know i say it before but,nobody get on Higgins.

At lease Pace should try going down Canfield and Foster to see if it attracts new riders.There is the shopping Center at Harlem and Foster.

[andrethebusman]

The apparent reason for CTA taking over King Dr between 95th and 111th is the legitimate complaint riders have that they can only use certain CTA fare instruments, and not the very popular 1-day passes, on Pace. So this makes a whole lot of sense. On the other hand, maybe this will bring back the long-discussed but never agreed-to COMBINING of CTA and PACE fare practices. Yes, the suburbanites want their cheaper $1.75 base fare. But as PACE takes over more and more CTA serice areas, sooner or later somebody will start crying discrimination, before they could use any CTA fare media, now only fare cards (where deduction is $2.00, which I am surprised nobody has squauked about), 5-day with surchare (another good squauk for somebody) or monthly. Surely somebody will have noticed that PACE is basically shafting anybody who wants to use both PACE and CTA??

[Busjack]

The apparent reason for CTA taking over King Dr between 95th and 111th is the legitimate complaint riders have that they can only use certain CTA fare instruments, and not the very popular 1-day passes, on Pace. So this makes a whole lot of sense. On the other hand, maybe this will bring back the long-discussed but never agreed-to COMBINING of CTA and PACE fare practices. Yes, the suburbanites want their cheaper $1.75 base fare. But as PACE takes over more and more CTA serice areas, sooner or later somebody will start crying discrimination, before they could use any CTA fare media, now only fare cards (where deduction is $2.00, which I am surprised nobody has squauked about), 5-day with surchare (another good squauk for somebody) or monthly. Surely somebody will have noticed that PACE is basically shafting anybody who wants to use both PACE and CTA??

1. If the base fare is $1.75 on Pace and $2.25 to board a bus with cash on CTA, nobody is being shafted in that manner.

2. Since CTA was only running supplemental service on some of these routes anyway (such as 49A only being rush hour), basically most of the riders have nothing new to complain about. If they did, they sure didn't show up at the hearing, like those protesting cuts to 11 and 145 did.

3. With Ventra, most of this will disappear on the passenger side. Other than that, people will have to figure out what the intergovernmental fare agreements are. In that Pace says that 40% of its traffic is to transfer to or from CTA, I figure most of that 40% already have.

Update: Let's remember that except for 111/115, it was CTA, with the blessing of Emanuel, which retreated from city territory.

[Busjack]

The October 12, 2012 minutes provide more explanation of Pace's reaction to the plan, including what service would be added to 270 and 349.

And for jtrosario, who suggested that 353 link to the Jeffery Jump, apparently you had a winning idea, after all.

And for the complainer about 165, it says CTA is cutting back 63W to coordinate with 386. I don't think that CTA said anything about that.

[mkohut]

The October 12, 2012 minutes provide more explanation of Pace's reaction to the plan, including what service would be added to 270 and 349.

And for jtrosario, who suggested that 353 link to the Jeffery Jump, apparently you had a winning idea, after all.

And for the complainer about 165, it says CTA is cutting back 63W to coordinate with 386. I don't think that CTA said anything about that.

If you have 386 every 30 minutes all day and 63w 30 minutes off peak how is there a difference.

[Busjack]

If you have 386 every 30 minutes all day and 63w 30 minutes off peak how is there a difference.

The only thing the Pace minutes say is:

The CT A is also planning to adjust schedules for their Route 63 W bus in order to coordinate with Pace Route 386 service. Pace does not plan to make any service changes on Route 386 but does suggest that the stop pattern along 63'd Street be adjusted for full integration with CTA Route 63W service.

The minutes do not reflect what the 63W schedule would be, only that it would be integrated with 386. If you have a source for the 63W schedule after Dec. whatever, please post it.

[mkohut]

The only thing the Pace minutes say is:

The minutes do not reflect what the 63W schedule would be, only that it would be integrated with 386. If you have a source for the 63W schedule after Dec. whatever, please post it.

If You look at the schedule that that is how it is right now.I have no idea come Dec.

[artthouwill]

If you have 386 every 30 minutes all day and 63w 30 minutes off peak how is there a difference.

I suppose the schedules could be coordinated for 15 minute frequencies, bus 1 would be a CTA bus and the next bus would be a Pace bus, alternating, thusboth agencies maintaining 30 minute headways.

[Busjack]

I suppose the schedules could be coordinated for 15 minute frequencies, bus 1 would be a CTA bus and the next bus would be a Pace bus, alternating, thusboth agencies maintaining 30 minute headways.

If you put it that way, there would be a change. There are more irregular intervals in the 63W schedule than the 386 one, and while the weekday mornings are more regular, it is hard to tell in the afternoon rush if they are overlapping or not. Sure look like they leave about the same time after 3:15, although there are more 63W trips.

I don't know if my earlier characterization of a cutback is correct, but while one doesn't seem indicated in the weekday morning (as those trips seem to alternate somewhat close to every 15 minutes), it probably is in the afternoon.

I am looking only at "from Midway," and not calculating how the inbound schedule would be affected.

[Busjack]

Moving Forward says that the website will have a preview of schedule changes resulting from the CTA plan during the week of Dec. 3, including changes reflecting that transfers cannot be made to canceled routes, as well as schedule changes unrelated to the CTA.

Pace says it also has a brochure on buses on Pace routes affected by the plan.

[renardo870]

Moving Forward says that the website will have a preview of schedule changes resulting from the CTA plan during the week of Dec. 3, including changes reflecting that transfers cannot be made to canceled routes, as well as schedule changes unrelated to the CTA.

Pace says it also has a brochure on buses on Pace routes affected by the plan.

Some Pace Schedules to Change Dec. 16

Numerous new Pace bus schedules become effective on De-cember 16 and 17, and there are several ways for passengers to find out what’s changing– if anything. The changes range from extended routing and more trips throughout the day in response to the CTA’s Crowding Reduction Plan to simply updating the maps to reflect that some CTA routes will be eliminated.

Pace and CTA coordinated on the Crowding Reduction Plan to ensure that service would remain on shared corridors in order to allow CTA to reallocate resources to areas of Chicago with high demand. The “Upcoming Service Changes” brochure is or will soon be available on buses and online at Pacebus.com to ex-plain the service changes and alternative Pace service for those currently using affected CTA routes. Pace will also have transit ambassadors at key locations during the week of December 10 to answer questions and provide assistance prior to the changes. Preview schedules will be posted on the individual route pages at PaceBus.com during the week of December 3.

“Many passengers in the affected areas already use Pace and CTA interchangeably, but we didn’t want to take that for granted,” said Pace Board Chairman Richard Kwasneski. “We believe that providing plenty of information to riders ensures a smooth transi-tion for everyone.”

The following Pace routes will have new schedules to reflect ser-vice modifications resulting from the CTA’s Crowding Reduction Plan: 270, 317, 349, 353, 381 and 423.

The following Pace routes will have new schedules without any service changes. Updates simply reflect the removal of infor-mation about transferring to CTA routes eliminated as part of the plan: 209, 225, 226, 240, 241, 290, 301, 303, 308, 310, 320, 331, 348, 352, 359, 385, 386, 392, 395, 757 and 877.

Some Pace routes will have schedule changes unrelated to the CTA’s Crowding Reduction Plan: 234, 305, 318, 319, 383, 505, 529, 576, 625, 629, 635, 801, 806, 807, 808 and 834. Passenger notices describing these changes can be found on buses and online at PaceBus.com.

[Busjack]

Pacebus.com uploaded their reduction plan brochure explaining their service changes

Right thread and link are here.

Possibly interesting is that one 423 bus leaves earlier supposedly because of this.

The Passenger Notices now also reflect schedule changes without changes in Pace service, such as for 209. The Passenger Notices for routes with changed service have links to the new schedules, such as for 317.

The extra bus on 270 must be that the 7:12 from Golf Mill becomes 7:07 and 7:17.

Edit: As I predicted, all 353 trips go through South Holland, and there are not any trips starting or ending at 136-Indiana.

[Busjack]

If any consolation to those complaining about BusTracker, Pace hasn't updated the map for Route 353 on Webwatch yet. At least it does show a bus on the expressway, and stops between 130th and 95th are not on the departure times pulldown.

[jajuan]

If any consolation to those complaining about BusTracker, Pace hasn't updated the map for Route 353 on Webwatch yet. At least it does show a bus on the expressway, and stops between 130th and 95th are not on the departure times pulldown.

I noticed the same. Looks like Pace is working out the bugs too with its part in this service change.

[Busjack]

I noticed the same. Looks like Pace is working out the bugs too with its part in this service change.

Pace is usually late fixing WebWatch. Also, IIRC, 353 is the only one with a change to the map. For instance, 317's map should be the same; the only issue being whether rush hour trips are reflected in the arrival times. Same for 349.

[Busjack]

...For instance, 317's map should be the same; the only issue being whether rush hour trips are reflected in the arrival times. ...

Which they apparently are.

[jajuan]

Pace is usually late fixing WebWatch. Also, IIRC, 353 is the only one with a change to the map. For instance, 317's map should be the same; the only issue being whether rush hour trips are reflected in the arrival times. Same for 349.

Yes with Pace it's mostly whether they updated things to reflect where Pace is doing more coordination with CTA and if stop locations are updated where CTA has pulled routes and in the case of 317 whether rush hour times are now added in.

[Busjack]

Yes with Pace it's mostly whether they updated things to reflect where Pace is doing more coordination with CTA and if stop locations are updated where CTA has pulled routes...

The latter wouldn't be much of an issue, since, for instance, 423 is unchanged. What's on the 270 pulldown seems to be current, although the issue there might have been that the number of city stops (non rush hour) may have decreased.

[jajuan]

The latter wouldn't be much of an issue, since, for instance, 423 is unchanged. What's on the 270 pulldown seems to be current, although the issue there might have been that the number of city stops (non rush hour) may have decreased.

Yeah that was my point. The few places where CTA eliminated routes that were in city limits that Pace had service there would be the minor issue of Pace adding in stops since in those spots Pace may have been only stopping every half mile to one mile because of CTA's presence.

[Busjack]

Yeah that was my point. The few places where CTA eliminated routes that were in city limits that Pace had service there would be the minor issue of Pace adding in stops since in those spots Pace may have been only stopping every half mile to one mile because of CTA's presence.

Getting my brain back into gear, the only place that would apply would be route 386, where the passenger notice says that posted stops are every 1/4 mile compared to 1/2. The pulldown appears to be every 400 house numbers so it hasn't been updated, although one wonders how closely calibrated it is:

Elsewhere, like on 270 and 349, Pace was already stopping in the city, and on 270, except in the rush hour direction, and in the case of 270, the number of stops may have decreased.

[jajuan]

Getting my brain back into gear, the only place that would apply would be route 386, where the passenger notice says that posted stops are every 1/4 mile compared to 1/2. The pulldown appears to be every 400 house numbers so it hasn't been updated, although one wonders how closely calibrated it is:

Elsewhere, like on 270 and 349, Pace was already stopping in the city, and on 270, except in the rush hour direction, and in the case of 270, the number of stops may have decreased.

No you misunderstood a bit. I knew they were stopping in the city but the issue was how close together would the stops be now that CTA has no route on that stretch. For example would 349 continue to stop every four blocks in the city with 49A no longer there? :)